Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
How did you contract HIV?
- Thread starter Heracles
- Start date
babybodybuilder2.5
New member
Well I wasn't going to post a reply to this thread, cause i felt that it was my business and no one elses. After some thought I have changed my mind. If I get long winded , I'm sorry.When I was 20 years old, I feel in Love for the first time. Moved in with him after 6 months. He had alredy tested Neg to HIV. So, I felt I was safe. You see he was my Very First sexual experince ever! I wanted to make that point clear . We never used condoms, I didn't see the need for it. Boy was I mistaken. He and I had been together for about 7 years. Things were getting rocky. It was then that I got sick, went to the doctor and foud out I had HIV. I had all the symptoms, so I wasn't to shocked. He finally told me that he hads been cheating on me for the last 3 years of our relationship. He had brought it home to me. Well at that time, when I found out about my status I was already sick, and soon went into the hospital. It was feared that I would not come out. I had been diagnosed with full blown Aids. Finally after 6 weeks, I was able to come home. He and I split up and I have not seen him since 1993. I found out later that he had died. Cancer of the tongue and throat. Isn't that something? I have been living with HIV since April 1992.
Well I just hope that those of you who read this thread will really think about using condoms or not using them. It is to late for me , dont make the same mistake.
Always play safe.......
NorgePrecision
New member
I don't "play" with boys, and I only have one girl in my life to worry about, so I think I'm okay.
babybodybuilder2.5
New member
NorgePrecision said:
Then you are clueless about HIV transmission. Positive case are now higher in heterosexuals, because they still thinks it's a "Gay" thing. When will everyone see the light? It only takes one person to infect you. No matter what gender you have sex with. ...... 
NorgePrecision
New member
I've been with this girl for over 4 years and I was her first and only, so I think I'm in the clear.
babybodybuilder2.5
New member
NorgePrecision said:
If you think you are safe, the more power to you my friend. I thought the same thing. We were together for seven....he cheated during the last 3 years ..Just becarefull.............I would hate for you to be in my shoes.
babybodybuilder2.5
New member
yomama said:HIV is spreading highly in the gay community. The numbers are fuckin high as hell. That's why you stay out of the ass!
thats true, but it is not an issue about it being a "gay" issue. It is attacking everyone. The largest number are heterosexual, and homosexual's are once agin on the rise.If you use a condom, as everyone should be today. Then intercourse will not be an issue. It not only prevents HIV, but many other STD's as well a pregenacy.
PURE EXTRACT
New member
HIV scares the shit out of me. I honestly can't even say if I fully understand it yet. Let me make sure I'm getting this right. If you're getting tested every year for lets say for the last 4 years, and you haven't been with anyone different since then and neither has your gf, you can still come up positive one day??
babybodybuilder2.5
New member
PURE EXTRACT said:
Hey Pure Extract,I am glad that you are getting tested each year. Is your girlfriend getting tested as well? It only takes one time for either of you to get caught up in something that you didn't think could happen (Cheating ). Incubation period for HIV can be as little as 6 month. Does that suprise you? Most people, feel that they are ok, because they trust their partners. I did the same, and he infected me, as I stated above. As long as you both are getting tested yearly, and you truely trust each other. I would like to think that you would be ok. Strange things can happen to each of us, when we least expect it. Your best solution for preventing any kind of infection to each other would be to use condoms , all the time. I know that most guys don't want to hear that, but it's the truth.
Be happy and Play safe......
PURE EXTRACT
New member
hey, man. Thanks for the fast reply. I know that she hasn't been with anyone simply because we live too close and we spend toooo much time together. It would be almost impossible for anything to be going on without me knowing. But let's just say that we both haven't been with anyone but eachother for the last 3 years. Now, is it still possible to get HIV? That's just what always scares me is that someone that I've slept with like 7 years ago had something and years later after being tested and coming up negative, I'll get it too. Not that anyone that I've slept with is positive...but you honestly can never know.
babybodybuilder2.5
New member
PURE EXTRACT said:
I'm not the one to say that it will never happen. Anything is possiable. There are different way of contracting HIV. I would recommend you do some searching on the internet to learn more about all the different ways of contracting HIV. All I can say is that if you both keep getting tested each year, everything should be ok.
Getting tested every year will not protect you from HIV! The only reason to get tested is if you're regularly putting yourself at risk for infection, and if you are, testing will not keep you safe.
If you are having sex without a condom, you have to be comfortable putting your life in your partner's hands. That means complete trust, and knowing that if either of you ever do it with someone else, you will be able to tell each other and use condoms until you both retest.
Don't rely on testing to keep you HIV negative - rely on each other or on condoms.
Mark
P.S. HIV will show up on a test within 6 months of infection. If you test negative after 6 months, you don't have to worry it will show up later.
If you are having sex without a condom, you have to be comfortable putting your life in your partner's hands. That means complete trust, and knowing that if either of you ever do it with someone else, you will be able to tell each other and use condoms until you both retest.
Don't rely on testing to keep you HIV negative - rely on each other or on condoms.
Mark
P.S. HIV will show up on a test within 6 months of infection. If you test negative after 6 months, you don't have to worry it will show up later.
chgolatin2
New member
"I don't "play" with boys, and I only have one girl in my life to worry about, so I think I'm okay" quote from "norgeprecision"
HIV is not a gay issue anymore it is everybody's issue, everyone is at risk especially if you dont play it safe. I lost my mother and father to AIDS due to drug use.
Stilll people like youself are being ignorant and still taking risk EVERYDAY because they are heterosexuals, bisexuals, gay or whatever. Nothing is quaranteed in life, not even marriage, boyfriend or girlfriend or so call secure relationship, at times some people cheat that is a FACT OF LIFE but if you do and care about yourself please make sure you protect yourself in order to protect others no matter what sexual orientation you are into.
Also, honesty goes a long way no matter if the truth hurts!
Please be safe! Latin
HIV is not a gay issue anymore it is everybody's issue, everyone is at risk especially if you dont play it safe. I lost my mother and father to AIDS due to drug use.
Stilll people like youself are being ignorant and still taking risk EVERYDAY because they are heterosexuals, bisexuals, gay or whatever. Nothing is quaranteed in life, not even marriage, boyfriend or girlfriend or so call secure relationship, at times some people cheat that is a FACT OF LIFE but if you do and care about yourself please make sure you protect yourself in order to protect others no matter what sexual orientation you are into.
Also, honesty goes a long way no matter if the truth hurts!
Please be safe! Latin
May I ask you a question? Seriously I am just curious, how did you progress to full blow AIDS in less than 5 years? The incubation period of most HIV cases progressing to AIDS is about 10 years average? Was there a unique situation? Not to sound wrong here but really I'm just curious.......babybodybuilder2.5 said:
When I was 20 years old, I feel in Love for the first time. Moved in with him after 6 months. He had alredy tested Neg to HIV. So, I felt I was safe. You see he was my Very First sexual experince ever! I wanted to make that point clear . We never used condoms, I didn't see the need for it. Boy was I mistaken. He and I had been together for about 7 years. Things were getting rocky. It was then that I got sick, went to the doctor and foud out I had HIV. I had all the symptoms, so I wasn't to shocked. He finally told me that he hads been cheating on me for the last 3 years of our relationship. He had brought it home to me. Well at that time, when I found out about my status I was already sick, and soon went into the hospital. It was feared that I would not come out. I had been diagnosed with full blown Aids. Finally after 6 weeks, I was able to come home. He and I split up and I have not seen him since 1993. I found out later that he had died. Cancer of the tongue and throat. Isn't that something? I have been living with HIV since April 1992.
Well I just hope that those of you who read this thread will really think about using condoms or not using them. It is to late for me , dont make the same mistake.
Always play safe.......
For the Record >>> NEGATIVE HERE, I guess I just know too much!PURE EXTRACT said:
There is a 6 month "window". Let's put it this way, your LAST partner/encounter IF it was your LAST, to get a accurate test result you would have to wait at least 6 months to get a standard ELISA Hiv test, and to be very sure, one more test 6 months after that.
The ELISA Hiv test (the most common) does NOT actually test for the prescence of the HIV virus in your blood but rather the ANTIBODIES that your body produces to the HIV virus (these antibodies are specific to the HIV virus only and they therefore can mostly rely on the fact that IF you test postitive for the anitbodies then you indeed have HIV and thus get a diagnosis of HIV positive.) It can take the human body anywhere from 4 weeks to 6 months to produce these antibodies AFTER being exposed to HIV so that is where the "6 month window" thing comes from.
ALSO, there is a much more accurate and more costly test, called a PCR, used more in health care settings for health workers or prison workers, in case of exposure, the PCR test can detect exposure to within 72 hours I believe and actually detects the virus itself as well as antibodies.
If you have had the standard ELISA test and tested negative, and been with the same person ONLY and she was ONLY with you, > truly monogamous, and she also tested negative, then you have nothing to worry about.
Last edited:
babybodybuilder2.5
New member
eddou1290 said:
I have no Clue as to why I got to be full blown in such a short time. I never really gave it much thought. It happened to me and I had to live with it. Sorry I don't have a better answer, but that's all I have to offer...
beachbouy2005
New member
Just a thought , to any one who is concernedIf you are in a totally monogamus realtionship then chances are (if no one cheats) you are perfectly okay. Get educated my a certified Health care professional!!!! Knowlege+power and freedom from fear...hello. If you are in sexual relationship and there isnt that "sure thingie", and you DID not use a condom...get tested within 3 months. I had a lover full blown AIDS, we were safe we kissed very well, I never got it. I was tested every 6 months. He passed away there were no meds easily available before 1994. Had a boyfriend HIV+ I was negative, never a problem. Condoms...work.
2.5 years ago, parties, to much sex, no condoms...hello... HIV+... so you guys out there just go get educated from a PROFESSIONAL DOCTOR. And yes a condom can break, and yes your partner may lie about his or her status. HIV has no gender... and HIV has increased in gay males BECAUSE medicine has made is less fearfull, and NO HIV is not a GAY disease and YES HIV is as prevalent in the "straight" community as it is in the gay, but by the last #'s, I believe It is just a "HUMAN" SEXUALLY TRANMITTED VIRUS that knows No Gender!!! lets get real people and stop pointing fingers at gays, duh!!! In case we forget MEN are horny little things, gay or staight and gay guys, yes, we are very into sex, we can get laid 10 times more thean a straight man with a girl. So do the math, thats why it hit the gay community so fast and in such numbers, unfortunately. So lets all remember that through all of this there is great sorrow and compassion for those who have already fallen, MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN, of all ages. I have lost both straight and gay friends to this and it hurts, a lot! Respect is the only answer.
amen and peace to all (phew)
NorgePrecision said:
You would think.... until you make her upset and the same day work that nice dressed guy at the watercooler tells her he likes what she did to her hair.... something she hasn't heard from you in two years.... next thing you know....
BAM! You got the gift.
I contracted HIV from a one night stand in Novemember of 2005. I was in a relationship and am still in the relationship with the same guy. I normally don't use drugs and have always used condoms in the past, but on that night I was so trashed I got high and had a threesome without a condom during a portion of it. I don't really remember everything clearly, I know who the two guys are, but I haven't seen them since.
Personally I never felt that I would cheat on my boyfriend, but I also have a drinking problem and have had issues with getting way too drunk and making terrible decisions in the past. Like I said, this was just one night, it wasn't from a whole series of sexual encounters outside the relationship. I don't believe in luck, so I won't say that I had bad luck...I was stupid and should've known better, its my fault for not protecting myself.
Its good to trust the one you're with, but that has nothing to do with using condoms. Using condoms is a health issue, a little more pleasure is not worth the risk. But, I guess I'm lucky, my boyfriend has stayed with me and I went and got tested within three weeks of my infection....so long term things should be ok. People were talking about the antibody and viral load tests...when I went in I tested negative for the antibody test, but then I went back and told my doctor about my risky encounter and she tested my viral load, which came back positive. So, if you're really worried about a recent experience, and you can afford it then you should get a viral load test. But, for routine testing, an antibody test is fine.
Personally I never felt that I would cheat on my boyfriend, but I also have a drinking problem and have had issues with getting way too drunk and making terrible decisions in the past. Like I said, this was just one night, it wasn't from a whole series of sexual encounters outside the relationship. I don't believe in luck, so I won't say that I had bad luck...I was stupid and should've known better, its my fault for not protecting myself.
Its good to trust the one you're with, but that has nothing to do with using condoms. Using condoms is a health issue, a little more pleasure is not worth the risk. But, I guess I'm lucky, my boyfriend has stayed with me and I went and got tested within three weeks of my infection....so long term things should be ok. People were talking about the antibody and viral load tests...when I went in I tested negative for the antibody test, but then I went back and told my doctor about my risky encounter and she tested my viral load, which came back positive. So, if you're really worried about a recent experience, and you can afford it then you should get a viral load test. But, for routine testing, an antibody test is fine.
eddou1290 said:
10 years is the "average" length of time int he US for an HIV infection to progress to the point of AIDS. In this case, however, "average" isn't very telling...why? It may take as little as 1 year or as many as 20. 10 years is simply the average of all people who can pinpoint the original date of infection.
What do you think his odds are? My buddy had been dating a girl for about six months. He found out she had been using heroin the whole time. He never had any idea. Well, come to find out, after they broke up she had sex with her previous boyfriend a week later. A week after that he slept with her a few times, no condem either.This all happened in Jan. Now he just found out that this kid has aids. Don't know if he had it or if she gave it to him. My buddy is still waiting for the results of her tests. He got tested right away and nothing came back, but I know it can takes months sometimes.
Mathew22 said:
It's more easily transmitted from male to female, but it can indeed be transmitted from female to male. If the male is uncircumsized, the chances of infection are greater. Also, if the encounter occurs with someone who's recently infected, then the chances are also greater (people recently infected have no anti-bodies yet, so the virus replicates in an uncontrolled manner).
The odds are in your buddy's favor, but the risk is very real. He should get tested now and at three months.
The important lesson here...no matter if you're male or female, straight or gay, condoms are a must if you are sexually active. You just never know who has HIV and who doesn't. I've noticed that those who have been tested and know that they are HIV+ become very responsible about not passing on the infection, but those who have not tested almost always assume that they are HIV-....which can lead to behavior that passes on the infection.
I hope things turn our "negative" for your buddy.
beachbouy2005 said:
...
In case we forget MEN are horny little things, gay or staight and gay guys, yes, we are very into sex, we can get laid 10 times more thean a straight man with a girl. So do the math, thats why it hit the gay community so fast and in such numbers, unfortunately.
First of all, HIV is definitely more prevalent in the gay community than it is in the heterosexual community. Look at it this way, yes there may be as many "straight" people with aids as there are gay people with it, but from a percentage standpoint, which group has more members? AIDS is expanding at alarming rates in the gay community...it's pretty ridiculous. Stop pointing fingers at gays? I'm pretty sure gays do a good enough job of attracting attention to themselves without any additional help. The fact that you generalize that ALL men are horny little things...clearly not true--it may be the fact that you were a horny little thing and that's why you got AIDS, but that doesn't apply to ALL males. Did it ever occur to you that homosexuality is wrong? Even after you contracted AIDS as a result of it, you still sit there and defend homosexuality as if it is perfectly acceptable. Where is your faith, your religion? honestly.
mojaz87 said:
Did it ever occur to you that your view of homosexuality is discriminatory and therefore evil (and against Christianity and just about every other religion)? I take it you must not be of a Christian religion; otherwise, you wouldn't be saying something so judgmental. According to the Christian religion, anyone who judges another man will be condemned themselves...since it's not your right to judge...it's only God's right.
Yes, there are more straight people in the world with HIV than there are gay people. Many more, as a matter of fact...it started in sub-saharan Africa in the earlier part of last century when SIV (Simian Immunodeficiency Virus) jumped the species hurdle from Chimpanzees into the human race by mutating into HIV (human immunodeficiency virus)...something that frequently occurs with viruses. Influenza (the flu), for example, started in the bird population and wasn't able to infect humans until it mutated (I'm talking about the ordinary flu...not the recent "avian flu"). Many other viral infections have followed a similar path.
Chimpanzees used to be part of the food supply in sub-Saharan Africa (that part of the world used to be even more poverty stricken than it is today, and the locals had to eat whatever was available to them). It is believed that the virus entered the human race as the hunters were butchering the freshly killed animals and were therefore exposed to the blood of the animals. This is why as much as 40% of the population in sub-saharan Afraica is infected by the virus.
This isn't a religious issue. It's a scientific one.
Let's leave religion out of this. It's only making things worse. It's very clear that you want to hate and blame someone, but you're pointing the finger in the wrong direction. It's just a virus. God didn't have anything to do with it, nor does any sexual orientation.
The fastest growing segment of new infections in the US are heterosexual females...not gay men. The fastest growing region of the country for new infections is the Southeast...surprise, surprise...the part of the country which has most strongly adopted George W. Bush's misguided abstinece only teachings.
Another alarming fact...as many as 70% of all infected heterosexuals do not know that they are infected. Because they believe that they are safe since they're heterosexual, they're not getting tested...and continuing their unsafe practices. We haven't even seen the tip of the iceberg yet in the heterosexual community.
It's going to be bad...very, very bad.
How do I know all this? By studying the disease at length for many years and by working to help prevent new infections by trying to get people to test themselves...straight or gay.
It's going to take all of our cooperation to make this disease a thing of the past. Trying to include religion isn't going to help. Religion doesn't control viruses.
nybb10001 said:
So my view of homosexuality is judgmental? Really? I wasn't aware of that. Because I stated my own opinion, and the opinion of many others may I remind you, I've become some kind of judgmental, homophobic, ultra-conservative freak?
You really are the type of person that makes my day. I've encountered many people with your point of view, just to let you know. Your blatant ignorance has blinded you and made you into a self-righteous machine for selectivee morality. You take it I must not be of a Christian religion because of my words? What kind of a community do you live in? It must be filled with very devout Christians who regularly pray and attend church, because most of the people who I see day to day--in real life, in the media, in our government, in Hollywood--are VERY judgmental.
Are you telling me Christians don't judge others? They don't look down on others and "pity" them because they don't believe Jesus died to have all of their sins cleansed. That is simply not the case. Christianity in this country is a joke. Statistically, Christianity may have the most members, but how many of them are truly Christians, there is no telling. Some people really think that the only thing they have to do to make it to Heaven, if they even believe in a Heaven and Hell, is to believe in Jesus. They don't have to follow anything else in the Bible, just believe that Jesus died to have their sins forgiven...that is the single most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
We as people deal with worldly challenges every day. We struggle to achieve goals. Some goals are more difficult than others. In most situations, it can be said that none of the best things we accomplish in this life come without hard work and dedication. How is it then that our eternity, the place we are going to spend the rest of time after this world is over, can be so easily achieved. By simply believing in the occurrence of an event, we achieve eternal bliss. Please, spare me the nonsense. However, I am getting away from the point.
You claim that I am being judgmental and violating Christianity. According to the Christian religion, anyone who judges another will be condemned himself? Of course. But this is not my judgment. I didn't make it up on my own, and I am not the only one saying it. The Bible clearly outlines the fact that homosexuality and homosexual acts are sinful. They are wrong. And they are unacceptable. Here are a few examples (I don't even need to type them because I'm sure you already know them, but you've convinced yourself that they don't really mean what they say):
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."
1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"
Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers"
...and the list goes on. You can say what you like. You can tell me all sorts of things like, "You're taking these quotes out of context and using them to bash gays. That is strictly your opinion. Most of these quotes are prettydirect and there is no room for mis interpretation." However, it has always been the case that those who look for a loop hole will find one. If you honestly want to convince yourself that in Sodom and Gomorrha, only the act of gay RAPE was being condemned, then go right ahead and do that. However, for anyone with any kind of sensiblity or wits about them this is a non-issue. Christianity, along with Judaism and Islam are quite clear on where they stand on the issue.
Other than that, thank you for the in depth explanation on the origins of HIV, but I was already very much aware of the facts surrounding it. I realize the virus is not caused by gay sex, but it is clear that homosexuality is a significant contributor to the increasing of numbers infected with this terrible virus. A lot of it deals with the physical issue: the anus is not the most suitable location for sex. Therefore, for someone who is not accustomed to it, and even those who have been doing it for a while, bleeding can definitely be an issue. Aside from this, there is also little incentive to use condoms when there is not risk of pregnancy. Yes condoms can help in the prevention of disease/virus contraction, but when two people are confident they hav nothing and they are both mean (no risk of pregnancy) it is much easier to throw caution to the wind.
The fact that you say it's going to be very bad when the "straight" people who have contracted HIV break out into full-blown AIDS, etc....who's to say that all gays with AIDS already know their condition? That is all I have to say, and I'm sure others have their own opinions rgarding these issues. However, I think it is only fair that people know that your misguided perspective on the principles of Chrisitanity and the issue of homosexuality is not necessarily the truth. If you and other feels that Chrisitanity is only about acceptance and loving everybody no matter how grotesque their actons, it is because you are living and practicing a watered-down version of Christianity, designed to suit your particular lifestyle and requiring no effort on your part to do that which is good and pleasing to God, not just yourself. Religion is about effort and striving to better oneself, not about passiveness and compromise of the fundamental ideals of the faith.
I'm done.
Oh,boy - I've been away for FAR too long. The first 3/4THs of these posts are pretty much on the money and I actually have little to add to them. You can go the the AEGIS web site for charting stats of risk groups that become infected from the early 80's to today. And while there is still a lot of Gay/IV drug based HIV infections, the hetrosexual percentage is now quickly catching up with the rest of the groups. I live in Worcester, Ma. We are a small city with TEN colleges and guess what groups as a percent are exploding with initial HIV infection - Young straight college students, and senior citizens!!!!! And, the recently infected college students are so afraid of being seen regulary near an ASO, that they are not plugged in to services that they need. Also, they turn to their regular doctor for advice on treatment and don't seek out doctors and others that work all day long with HIV infected people. The possible combinations of the thirty or so HIV meds can have so many negative outcomes, that they are not getting proper standard of care for HIV infected people. I could go on for hours about this, but I think I'll stop here for right now.
As for the moral and religious angle about this, I clutch onto each copy of Free Inquiry that shows up in my mailbox every month reassuring me that all religions are a form of mythology and are used as political tools to get the masses of people to conform to a SELECTIVELY fundamentalist point of view.
OK. I'm prepared for the hate mail now. You can bring it on - i'm ready.
Good luck to you all, Alan Chiras.
As for the moral and religious angle about this, I clutch onto each copy of Free Inquiry that shows up in my mailbox every month reassuring me that all religions are a form of mythology and are used as political tools to get the masses of people to conform to a SELECTIVELY fundamentalist point of view.
OK. I'm prepared for the hate mail now. You can bring it on - i'm ready.
Good luck to you all, Alan Chiras.
mojaz87 said:
Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.", Huh? You cut off the next few lines. It condemns anyone who eats shellfish.
Hope you haven't eaten any shellfish.....
You're completely missing my point. People like you who claim to be religious are using your religion simply to shield your hatred towards others who happen to be unlike themselves.
It's making the epidemic worse.
That was my point.
And no, I don't practice a watered down version of Christianity. George W. Bush and Osama bin Laden have convinced me that all religions are bunk. So, I don't practice ANY religion anymore. I use my mind.
I really don't care if you like gay people or not. All I care about is that I'm working to stop the progression of this disease and people like you are making that job a great deal more difficult. Basically, people like you are helping AIDS to spread.
Right on NYBB! Alan Chiras.
Also mojaz, before you get into the whole 'bible quoting thing' please remember a couple of things...
1) In spite of the fact that the people in this country have decided to have Christianity be the 'dominant' religion, and that many have chosen to take it to a dark and cruel place... this country is supposed to be open to people of any religion and to practice religious tolerance. So, your book can say whatever it wants, and you can follow it if you want, but that does not give you the right to force me to live by it.
2) What the hell are you quoting? Do you honestly think the original writings said 'homosexual'? Think again... that term wasn't even coined until the 1800s. So, you are reading a rewriting of a rewriting of a.... of a translation of a... And guess what, it isn't the original word!
You really want to quote the bible? Great. Learn the languages and the culture of the times and get it right. Too lazy? Fine, there are dozens of books out there explaining the history of the bible, what was cut from the original 'God's teachings' and what was changed... and even what time periods they were changed in. Read!
Face it, YOU break 'commandments' of the bible every day (Are you clean shaven? Eat pork? Insulted your mom or dad? Wear mixed fibers? Drink milk -- let's talk about these protein shakes, huh?) that should get you stoned to death or killed or hurt in many ways. Why then have you decided to post the quotes you did and to ignore the ones that you WANT to break? Hey, the bible has been used to justify slavery, beating of women and children too! *gasp* its almost as though people rewrite these words on paper or in their minds and use it to justify their hate, prejudice and intolerance so they don't have to take responsibility for it.
Instead of trying to prove the gays deserve AIDS - grow up and think. Its a virus... it doesn't care who gets it. Your attitude is one of hate, anger and cruelty, which is what the guy at the center of your religion said is wrong. If you really need guiding principles and can't look outside of what you think is your religion, then just focus on what Jesus says and either ignore all the other crap or follow all of it... don't pick and choose.
Lastly, also remember... in their minds, Hitler, David Koresh and many other bad people were following God's words too.
1) In spite of the fact that the people in this country have decided to have Christianity be the 'dominant' religion, and that many have chosen to take it to a dark and cruel place... this country is supposed to be open to people of any religion and to practice religious tolerance. So, your book can say whatever it wants, and you can follow it if you want, but that does not give you the right to force me to live by it.
2) What the hell are you quoting? Do you honestly think the original writings said 'homosexual'? Think again... that term wasn't even coined until the 1800s. So, you are reading a rewriting of a rewriting of a.... of a translation of a... And guess what, it isn't the original word!
You really want to quote the bible? Great. Learn the languages and the culture of the times and get it right. Too lazy? Fine, there are dozens of books out there explaining the history of the bible, what was cut from the original 'God's teachings' and what was changed... and even what time periods they were changed in. Read!
Face it, YOU break 'commandments' of the bible every day (Are you clean shaven? Eat pork? Insulted your mom or dad? Wear mixed fibers? Drink milk -- let's talk about these protein shakes, huh?) that should get you stoned to death or killed or hurt in many ways. Why then have you decided to post the quotes you did and to ignore the ones that you WANT to break? Hey, the bible has been used to justify slavery, beating of women and children too! *gasp* its almost as though people rewrite these words on paper or in their minds and use it to justify their hate, prejudice and intolerance so they don't have to take responsibility for it.
Instead of trying to prove the gays deserve AIDS - grow up and think. Its a virus... it doesn't care who gets it. Your attitude is one of hate, anger and cruelty, which is what the guy at the center of your religion said is wrong. If you really need guiding principles and can't look outside of what you think is your religion, then just focus on what Jesus says and either ignore all the other crap or follow all of it... don't pick and choose.
Lastly, also remember... in their minds, Hitler, David Koresh and many other bad people were following God's words too.
qvamp said:
qvamp, you display a very backwards logic. What you are saying, in essence, is that since we all make mistakes, we should not point out anything that is wrong. In fact, we should just keeping more and more mistakes. Since some people breakthe commandments, it is out of their bounds to discuss other people breaking certain commandments because they become hypocrits. This much is true, I agree. But the flaw in your argument is that it promotes passiveness regarding religion. Sure everyone mistakes, but everyone will also be held accountable for their mistakes.
If someone wants to make a forum about adultery, then I'm sure there would be people in there addressing that topic and the immorality of it as well. I never said that I was perfect, or that I don't mistakes. I never even said that I am not vulnerable to the same kind of scrutiny homosexuals are placed under but for other reasons. I expect to be held to the same standard as everyone else.
Your argument is basically a way for people to ease their conscience. It gives you relief and peace of mind to see that people around you are doing wrong, because it makes you feel like anything wrong you have done pales in comparison. If that is your defense, your wall to hide behind, then fine. Because of the discussion that was going on in this forum, I made the comments that I did. If it was another thread and some kid was talking about how he hates his parents and wishes they would die, I would call him on it as well. And if I posted something to the effect that I had erred in the way of religion, I would expect to be criticized too.
In addition, you're very incorrect to judge me and assume that I break commandments like nobody's business. Don't automatically assume everyone is like yourself (if in fact you do break commandments). It is always important to give the person the beenfit of the doubt. The fact that you would try and degrade me and make my comments appear worthless by slandering my faith and the standard to which I hold myself to, I find that very offensive. One day you will see the error in your ways. If not during this lifetime, then shortly after it.
For your information, I do not violate any of the commandments. I do not eat pork, I am not clean shaven, and I do not disrespect my parents. Parents bring you into this world, they raise you, they fund you, they support you. No one in this world should be held in higher regard than your parents. Even when they make mistakes, they are still your parents, and they still command your respect. On this pop culture "EMO, I wanna rebel, my parents just don't understand me" era, many people have got this idea that it is your right to treat your parents any way you want. In reality, it is not. People have a duty and obligation to respect their parents. I do not WANT to break any commandments. Your statement there was totally out of line. I do not know how you were raised or what your background is, but that is not at all my way of thiniking. Regardless, it is not your position to be judging other's faith or to assume that everyone is like yourself.
If people do terrible things in the name of religion, that does not put the religion at fault. The person will be held accountable for his/her actions. Just because they claim it was in the name of religion doesn't mean the religion has failed. You're right that the Bible has been used to justify all sorts of terrible things. Why do you think this is? In reality, you can twise almost anything to suit your argument, so if that is the case, why not justify our case with the Bible? The Bible is such and important document, and it crries so much weight with people around the world that of course people are going to use it to justify their actions. That doesn't mean that the Bible actually said to do this or that. It just means that the person was so bent on doing what he/she was going to do that he/she could find justification for it even in the Bible.
I really have nothing else to say to you or any of the other intellectuals who have posted here regarding religion as being a barrier to independent thought. The fact that ppl like NYbb say they like to use "their mind" or that religion is for those who can't think on their own. I really pity people like you. Your arrogance has clouded your judgment to the point where you think you are capable of acting and behaving in a manner similar to God. Who gave you your mind? Who created you? Who do you owe everything to, even your life?
I can;t believe that you would have the audacity to claim that you are capable of simply using your mind to deicde what is right and wrong. If you are referring to your conscience, then remember that your conscience is constantly under influence. Many of the things that people believe are OK today were not acceptable by any means a few hundred or thousand, for that matter, years ago. Your conscience can be manipulated and influenced, and your thoughts are not always clear. But it seems that some have strayed so far in the direction of "free thinking" that there is no way they could possibly comprehend what I am saying. I hope sincerely that you realize this error and correct yourselves. Lastly, it may interest you to know that I not a Christian either so your argument about "the guy who started my religion" does not apply either. With that statement you clearly displayed your ignorance in the realm of religion. Christianity was not originally a man-made religion. But now it has become a man-edited religion. In that sense you are correct.
I did not say that gay people should al lget AIDS. What I was saying is that in that kind of a lifestyle, does it surpise you that things go wrong. There is a rhyme and a reason to everything in religion, whether you understand it at the time or not. We would like to think we are super-advanced and know everything there is, but our lifespan is so short that we may not see the logical reasoning behind a religious matter during our lifetime. That is why it is a matter of faith and not "seeing is believing." I really have nothing more to say. You are free to think however you want for the time being. For now, I do not believe there is any compromise in our individual beliefs. Therefore, I really don;t see the point of arguing this further. Enjoy your solely thought-based and selective morality while it lasts.
I am sorry that I assumed you break the word of the bible. You're right, I don't know what you have done. But I haven't seen you go off on the rest of the site about your religious beliefs either.
Please, feel free to write another post to the general site to show that I'm incorrect. Christianity isn't my religion, but I did some work to help you, forgive me if I get this bible-versing wrong. I have seen a number of posts on this site talking about these things, so please write a general post stating your views on drinking milk (Hebrews 5:13), wearing clothing that is considered for the opposite gender (Deuteronomy 22:5), about shaving or haircuts (Leviticus 19:27), wearing clothing of mixed fibers (Leviticus 19:19 (King James Version)), about tattoos (Leviticus 19:28) or about not respecting mom & pop (Leviticus 20:9).
Personally, I would be much more inclined to believe that you were upholding the bible if you did that, rather than looking for a way to attack categories of people who are fairly defenseless. According to what you wrote, we shouldn't permit passiveness on religious issues, and you believe all rules should be followed.
So, please, go ahead. And incidentally, there ARE forums here where guys brag about pre-marital sex (Dueteronomy 22:21-29) .. so unless you're posting there too ... your choice of attacks speak for themselves.
(and BTW I'm not a Christian, so I don't need to come up with biblical arguments to ease my conscience)
Please, feel free to write another post to the general site to show that I'm incorrect. Christianity isn't my religion, but I did some work to help you, forgive me if I get this bible-versing wrong. I have seen a number of posts on this site talking about these things, so please write a general post stating your views on drinking milk (Hebrews 5:13), wearing clothing that is considered for the opposite gender (Deuteronomy 22:5), about shaving or haircuts (Leviticus 19:27), wearing clothing of mixed fibers (Leviticus 19:19 (King James Version)), about tattoos (Leviticus 19:28) or about not respecting mom & pop (Leviticus 20:9).
Personally, I would be much more inclined to believe that you were upholding the bible if you did that, rather than looking for a way to attack categories of people who are fairly defenseless. According to what you wrote, we shouldn't permit passiveness on religious issues, and you believe all rules should be followed.
So, please, go ahead. And incidentally, there ARE forums here where guys brag about pre-marital sex (Dueteronomy 22:21-29) .. so unless you're posting there too ... your choice of attacks speak for themselves.
(and BTW I'm not a Christian, so I don't need to come up with biblical arguments to ease my conscience)
C
cat_fish
Guest
THAT SUCKS! If a woman did to me what that dude did to you she wouldnt have lived long enough to die of tongue and throat cancer I would have killed the bitch.babybodybuilder2.5 said:
Umm...folks, what do you think about this last post on this thread. I have the power to keep it or remove it. What should I do? Alan Chiras.
How did this devolve into bible quoting? Whenever that happens its a sure sign that any intelligent *discussion* has ended. There is no arguing or discussing with someone who is devoutly religious. Faith is irrational, therefore arguing with a person of faith is absolutely fruitless. And thats not simply my point of view, irrationality is one of the defining characteristics of faith.
Also, why is the bible the only book that is repeatedly quoted as though its truth is self-evident and beyond question? Its probably the most inaccurate, mistranslated book available simply because of its age and shadowy origins yet its taken literally by millions of people. You're a fool if you don't think that prejudices and biases have been placed into the bible through mistranslation and manipulation.
Also, why is the bible the only book that is repeatedly quoted as though its truth is self-evident and beyond question? Its probably the most inaccurate, mistranslated book available simply because of its age and shadowy origins yet its taken literally by millions of people. You're a fool if you don't think that prejudices and biases have been placed into the bible through mistranslation and manipulation.
I'm not sure that's completely true. Mojaz has still not posted anything to the rest of the site espousing his views of the bible. So what I've seen (like I've seen so many times before), is proof positive (so to speak) that religion was being used as the 'socially acceptable' veneer masking personal fear, hatred, prejudice and intolerance.
Personally, I couldn't care less about institutionalized religion, but I do believe that if people choose to be bigots, they should have the guts to be honest about it and not try to hide behind something else.
Personally, I couldn't care less about institutionalized religion, but I do believe that if people choose to be bigots, they should have the guts to be honest about it and not try to hide behind something else.
You fucking Bible freaks ruin every damn decent thread around here.
Funny you quote the old testament to lend strength to your bigoted convictions and masked hatred, but if you followed the old testament to the letter as much as you like to quote it for your own benefit, you would have never been conceived as nearly every single woman on the face of the earth would have been put to death and punished by shit the old testament preached against.
Fucking morons.
Funny you quote the old testament to lend strength to your bigoted convictions and masked hatred, but if you followed the old testament to the letter as much as you like to quote it for your own benefit, you would have never been conceived as nearly every single woman on the face of the earth would have been put to death and punished by shit the old testament preached against.
Fucking morons.
