How come rich people don't join the army?

[Razorguns]

This Pat Tillman thing got me thinking. This guy gave up MILLIONS and a huge CAREER of fame, fortune and women -- to serve his country. You hear about this things like once every hundred years.

So..

How come rich people, rich families with young sons/daughters, sons of politicians, etc. don't enlist? You'll never see the US Army at the Harvard campus or Wall Street trying to enlist folks. It's always young white/black lower to middle class blue-collar folks and their families who are the most patriotic and give their lives. That's gotta change.

I don't think the backbone of this country should shoulder the responsibility of protecting it. How about throwing high income folks, people out of business college, sons of politicians, illegal aliens -- to the service. If they're gonna freakin' enjoy the same land, and benefits and freedoms -- they need to start pulling their own damn weight too.

 

[jerkbox]

some do......

people with less tend to view the army as a stepping stone to better things i would imagine. guess that's just what happens when you have an all volunteer army.

 

[fogg88]

Several European countries (both Western and Eastern) do have mandatory military service, usually upon age 18 or 19. Since the service is mandatory, there is a larger pool to draw from, so they are able to reduce the length of service to just 9 months to 2 years in some cases. I personally think it's a good idea, but I could never see it going over here in the States with all the liberal bitches.

 

[Moderate_THIS]

yeah... exactly what we need... an army full of rich kid pussies and others who don't want to fight. Sounds like a plan.

 

[Sub-Zero]

because the poor minorities are mad at the world and grew up in the hood, so they naturally know how to gunfight, and want to kill

 

[Lao Tzu]

I don't think the backbone of this country should shoulder the responsibility of protecting it. How about throwing high income folks, people out of business college, sons of politicians, illegal aliens -- to the service. If they're gonna freakin' enjoy the same land, and benefits and freedoms -- they need to start pulling their own damn weight too.

they do pull their weight. THey go to work everyday and they pay taxes. Without either of these things there would be no America. Go to a place with no people, no jobs and no taxes and see what life is like there. There isn't any (antartica for example).

People pull their own weight just by going to work and paying taxes, kidnapping them and forcing them to fight against their will for 'freedom' will not help anyone and it will greatly lower the countries morale.

Besides, teh rich pay taxes that end up funding the military. The reason they dont join is most people who join the military do it for money and/or vocational training, neither of which concern the rich.

 

[canadianhitman]

The rich pay taxes that end up funding the military. The reason they dont join is most people who join the military do it for money and/or vocational training, neither of which concern the rich.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

a lot of the time, the recruiters feed off of people who are unsure of their future. you get lured in with the talk of having full blown career once you get out of the military based upon the skills you learned while you were in. i heard it and bought it, hook, line, and sinker. where i lived, there were certain areas the recruiters wouldn't go into, as it was more of an upper-middle to upper class area. the preconcieved notion was the kids in that area didn't have to worry about their futures because "mommy and daddy" would take care of them.

i see recruiters on campus every now and then. their goal is to get you before you're finished with college, typically before junior year. why? because they don't get as much of a "boost" in their recruiting record for bringing officers into the military. an air force or army recruiter approached a guy i know about enlisting, but when he found out the guy was in his Senior year, he lost interest in the conversation.

i think the military is something everyone should experience, plus it's giving something back to your country and your rights to freedom. that's just my opinion though.

 

[biteme]

Several European countries (both Western and Eastern) do have mandatory military service, usually upon age 18 or 19. Since the service is mandatory, there is a larger pool to draw from, so they are able to reduce the length of service to just 9 months to 2 years in some cases. I personally think it's a good idea, but I could never see it going over here in the States with all the liberal bitches.

LOL. Yeah, all of those rich liberal bitches. (sarcasm)

The middle class and poor mostly support the rich.

 

[Razorguns]

So basically only the POOR should die for our country, so the rich can live it up and party and drive SUV's.

I bet you less than 1% of the politicians in washington have kids in the army. It's damn easy to vote for war when you aren't going to be effected by it. "It's just someone else's son, and they're poor anyways...".

That's fucked up.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

So basically only the POOR should die for our country, so the rich can live it up and party and drive SUV's.

I bet you less than 1% of the politicians in washington have kids in the army. It's damn easy to vote for war when you aren't going to be effected by it. "It's just someone else's son, and they're poor anyways...".

That's fucked up.

Money IS the root of all evil, at least in today's world.

 

[Lao Tzu]

So basically only the POOR should die for our country, so the rich can live it up and party and drive SUV's.

I bet you less than 1% of the politicians in washington have kids in the army. It's damn easy to vote for war when you aren't going to be effected by it. "It's just someone else's son, and they're poor anyways...".

That's fucked up.

Well to be fair, they joined the army. True, had they had rich parents they wouldn've have needed to join the reserves to fund college but they still chose to join.

Why not conscript politicians instead of their kids? I remember reading once that in some areas judges and DAs had to spend time in prison, just to see what it was like where they were sending people. Making military service (even a short term) mandatory for congress 'may' help the siutation but military decisions are only one of thousands of issues politicans face. If they have to be in the military then they have to be everything else they make decisions on (black, poor, disabled, farmers, students, elderly, crime victims, criminals, etc etc) and that can't happen.

 

[westsnoop]

Here's a nice editorial addressing the subject:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

why do people who have never worn the uniform think they know how to fix the military?

 

[fogg88]

LOL. Yeah, all of those rich liberal bitches. (sarcasm)
The middle class and poor mostly support the rich.

I wasn't referring to the socio-economic status of the bitches...

...I was talking about the feel-good aclu types who would complain about someone being forced to do something they didn't want to, even if for the national good.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

If it is volunteer then this conversation is 100% irrelevant.

It's volunteer.

Thus this is irrelvant.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

why do people who have never worn the uniform think they know how to fix the military?

same reason why people that have never had kids think they know how to raise children and have the right to tell you (the parent) what you are doing wrong.

i wore the uniform. i put up with a lot of BS. i saw a lot of problems that i couldn't come up with a solution for.

how to fix the military? i didn't know it was broken. actually, i think the Marine Corps needs to adopt more stringent promotion policies for ALL ranks above LCpl. i had the unfortunate experience of dealing with people that had absolutely no clue how to manage themselves, let alone an entire platoon....yet they had been promoted time and time again!

people will always say something is wrong and they know how to fix it, no matter what it is. you're always going to see a difference of opinion on everything. just gotta know what to ignore and what's worth listening to.

 

[Razorguns]

If recruiters were honest, and not salesmen - and showed dead bodies, life in hell day after day, familes crying after receiving news of their deaths, and all the other "non-glamorous" parts of the war -- 80% of them would never join up.

Young folks. Especially, the poorer ones are very impressionable, and thus have a lot less to lose -- hence why the government preys upon them to do the shooting and the dying. No way am I having a kid fighting in the army. He'll be up in Wall Street with the kids "that are worth more" making money and paying for taxes.

 

[Robert Jan]

Because rich people are smarter(generally, I know about paris hilton and ally hilfiger and the ozbournes and all those stupid rich people) and they understand that the army is pathetic and war sucks

 

[Lift Chief]

This Pat Tillman thing got me thinking. This guy gave up MILLIONS and a huge CAREER of fame, fortune and women -- to serve his country. You hear about this things like once every hundred years.

So..

How come rich people, rich families with young sons/daughters, sons of politicians, etc. don't enlist? You'll never see the US Army at the Harvard campus or Wall Street trying to enlist folks. It's always young white/black lower to middle class blue-collar folks and their families who are the most patriotic and give their lives. That's gotta change.

I don't think the backbone of this country should shoulder the responsibility of protecting it. How about throwing high income folks, people out of business college, sons of politicians, illegal aliens -- to the service. If they're gonna freakin' enjoy the same land, and benefits and freedoms -- they need to start pulling their own damn weight too.

The rich are smart/connected enough to get out of military service. The poor get the shaft, it's always been that way and probably always will be.

It is fantastically ironic when you notice that the politicians who are sending us to war or bitching for the draft to be reinstated don't have children in that age group.

 

[Razorguns]

Exactly. Paris Hilton, Jack Osborne, Kennedy's kids, Bush's grandkids, Gate's kids, etc. aren't joining the army anytime soon. In fact, when one of them joins (eg: Pat Tillman) we are *shocked* and it's big news.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

Remember Riddick Bowe joining the Marine Corps?

 

[TheBabe10]

In Europe, before the Napoleonic Era, most European armies consisted of people from the upper and middle class. Just a thought

 

[p0ink]

why not just respect those who do serve, instead of bitching about those who don't. this is a volunteer army.

did you serve?

 

[p0ink]

they understand that the army is pathetic and war sucks

have you ever served in the military? what experience and insight do you have to pass judgement on the army as an institution? did you even graduate high school yet?

i did the whole college thing; i studied, i went to parties, i was in a fraternity (one of this country's largest), etc. etc., and i enjoy being in the service far more than anything i have ever done thus far in my life.

it gets boring be a spoiled brat with mommy and daddy paying all of your tuition, books, food, rent, credit card bills, etc. four years go by, and you realize you didn't accomplish jack shit by yourself, and you still cant appreciate anything because everything was already given to you.

i saw many of my friends, who hadn't accomplished shit, had no real goals or ambitions, had no real job prospects lined up (and still dont), going to grad school because they are too afraid to give up the 'student status' and actually face the real world, and i realized they were a reflection of myself, and it scared the shit out of me. that's one of the main reasons i decided to join, and it was the best decision i ever made.

another reason for joining, was because i want to live an authentic life. i didn't want to go the traditional route that so many in society do; high school -> college -> job -> family -> retire. that's bullshit. i wanted to have the opportunities to do shit that so many people won't have the opportunity to do, and the military is one of the few places that actually affords someone the chance to do something different.

but that's cool. if people don't want to serve, that's their choice and their business. but when they look back on their life and see everything that had once worked hard at was either destroyed or thrown away and pretty much added up to nothing and didnt have any significant impact on society (or even history), that's something they have to deal with.

sure those invoices, reports, projects, presentations, meeting preps, etc might seem like big, important shit now, but in a matter of days/weeks/months/years they will add up to shit, and all you worked so hard on and slaved and stressed over will soon be forgotten.

i would rather be a part of an organization that fights for something, rather than another brain-dead adolescent trying to fight against anything and everything.

 

[Lift Chief]

have you ever served in the military? what experience and insight do you have to pass judgement on the army as an institution? did you even graduate high school yet?

i did the whole college thing; i studied, i went to parties, i was in a fraternity (one of this country's largest), etc. etc., and i enjoy being in the service far more than anything i have ever done thus far in my life.

it gets boring be a spoiled brat with mommy and daddy paying all of your tuition, books, food, rent, credit card bills, etc. four years go by, and you realize you didn't accomplish jack shit by yourself, and you still cant appreciate anything because everything was already given to you.

i saw many of my friends, who hadn't accomplished shit, had no real goals or ambitions, had no real job prospects lined up (and still dont), going to grad school because they are too afraid to give up the 'student status' and actually face the real world, and i realized they were a reflection of myself, and it scared the shit out of me. that's one of the main reasons i decided to join, and it was the best decision i ever made.

another reason for joining, was because i want to live an authentic life. i didn't want to go the traditional route that so many in society do; high school -> college -> job -> family -> retire. that's bullshit. i wanted to have the opportunities to do shit that so many people won't have the opportunity to do, and the military is one of the few places that actually affords someone the chance to do something different.

but that's cool. if people don't want to serve, that's their choice and their business. but when they look back on their life and see everything that had once worked hard at was either destroyed or thrown away and pretty much added up to nothing and didnt have any significant impact on society (or even history), that's something they have to deal with.

sure those invoices, reports, projects, presentations, meeting preps, etc might seem like big, important shit now, but in a matter of days/weeks/months/years they will add up to shit, and all you worked so hard on and slaved and stressed over will soon be forgotten.

i would rather be a part of an organization that fights for something, rather than another brain-dead adolescent trying to fight against anything and everything.

So you honestly think by joining the army you are doing something great with your life? You don't feel that you're just one of the faceless millions in the military that your own government couldn't give 2 shits about? I find it hard to justify fighting for a government that places very little value on my life. It's certainly no insult to the government per se... naturally when you have hundreds of thousands or millions of soldiers, one person simply does not matter... and cannot matter if the military is to function effectively.

And since when is a person's life judged by the impact they have on history... if that is how you place value on your existence that's your perogative, but we all have different notions of what a valuable or important existence entails. Yours is no better than anyone else's.

 

[Razorguns]

i agree.

The kids in the army aren't society's doctors, bankers, politicians, celebrities, musicians, investors, community leaders, athletes, executives, accountants, lawyers, etc. etc. They're just kids of blue collar folks.

In a nutshell -- they're *expendable*. The government could give a rat's ass cuz their loss isn't going to affect society one bit. The way they were treated after giving up so much blood in vietnam has still left a bad taste about the government in my mouth.

 

[Frackal19]

This Pat Tillman thing got me thinking. This guy gave up MILLIONS and a huge CAREER of fame, fortune and women -- to serve his country. You hear about this things like once every hundred years.

So..

How come rich people, rich families with young sons/daughters, sons of politicians, etc. don't enlist? You'll never see the US Army at the Harvard campus or Wall Street trying to enlist folks. It's always young white/black lower to middle class blue-collar folks and their families who are the most patriotic and give their lives. That's gotta change.

I don't think the backbone of this country should shoulder the responsibility of protecting it. How about throwing high income folks, people out of business college, sons of politicians, illegal aliens -- to the service. If they're gonna freakin' enjoy the same land, and benefits and freedoms -- they need to start pulling their own damn weight too.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

This Pat Tillman thing got me thinking. This guy gave up MILLIONS and a huge CAREER of fame, fortune and women -- to serve his country. You hear about this things like once every hundred years.

So..

How come rich people, rich families with young sons/daughters, sons of politicians, etc. don't enlist? You'll never see the US Army at the Harvard campus or Wall Street trying to enlist folks. It's always young white/black lower to middle class blue-collar folks and their families who are the most patriotic and give their lives. That's gotta change.

I don't think the backbone of this country should shoulder the responsibility of protecting it. How about throwing high income folks, people out of business college, sons of politicians, illegal aliens -- to the service. If they're gonna freakin' enjoy the same land, and benefits and freedoms -- they need to start pulling their own damn weight too.

Hey,

Explain to us how the USSRs war in Afghanistan hastened the demise of the USSR, focusing specifically on who was in the Soviet Army and why they had to draw from those sectors.

That's your answer to why our system is best for the nation.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

why not just respect those who do serve, instead of bitching about those who don't. this is a volunteer army.

did you serve?

YES.

 

[Razorguns]

>That's your answer to why our system is best for the nation

I thought their enlistment system was identical to ours? What method are you stating, that proves that it doesn't work?

 

[Deus Ex Machina]

We're a volunteer army. If you want benefits the army offers, join. If you want to protect and serve your Country, join. Or both.

Generally, rich people do not join the Army because they have money and would rather not be a soldier because they have no need for it, and it seems Patriotism is dying in this Country. Atleast that's my take on it. This does not apply to all rich people though (Tillman, MTS).

I like how some of you say our soldiers aren't important in society.

Remember this: The freedoms of everyone start with our soldiers. No soldiers = no freedom.

Quit the military bashing, it makes you look sick and disgusting.

 

[PIGEON-RAT]

yeah, matt already said it. this thread's irrelevant.

it's a volunteer army. people usually join because they think they AREN'T going to go into battle, and this will provide opportunities for them in the future. Now when these people who VOLUNTEERED to enter the armed forces get sent into battle, it seems like some big surprise. if you don't want to take the risk of fighting and possibly dying for your country, then don't enlist. there are other ways to create a future for yourself.

it's a shame that there are kids dying in iraq who thought they would never have to fight a war, but they knew what they were getting into and decided to take the risk.

thankfully there are people like Tillman (although i think he gets too much credit) who enlisted because of nationalist pride. there need to be more people who know what they're getting into and commit themselves to it.

 

[sinjinsmythe33]

as far as afgahnistan is concerned, some of the 50,000 soviet soldiers killed were children of the elites, the military, party and kgb/gru higher ups. as it wore on, the ranks future leaders who would have continued the Stalinistic 'old-school' policies of political suppression, despotic rule, and compelled (sp?) virtues were decimated. many of the soldiers who did return home were unable to reacclimate to a whatever a normal life would have been. force the ivy leaguers and the children of the intellectuals, industry types and power brokers to fight and the approximate could happen here. this presupposes that the united states would get involved in a protracted land war with mucho casualties.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

it's a shame that there are kids dying in iraq who thought they would never have to fight a war, but they knew what they were getting into and decided to take the risk.

you know what the recruiter told me in 97 right before i enlisted?

"when was the last time we had a war? yeah, it was 90-91 with Iraq. but when was the last time before that? Veitnam. your chances of ever going into combat are slim to none. i wouldn't worry about it. EVER."

yeah, like i believed that for a second. there was a lot of other bullshit they had me believing, but that was the one thing they could not mis-lead me on.

never saw any action while i was in. so i guess technically they were correct. but what about the guys they got to enlist after me that got sent to Afghanistan or Iraq? they were probably thinking the same thing "because my recruiter told me so."

i'm not trying to start an arguement with my statements here. i'm simply stating what my experience was when i was dealing with the recruiters before i enlisted.

 

[atlantabiolab]

Not to offend any who have served, but our system of military is the antithesis of what our country was designed to have. Our Founders DID NOT want a constant standing army, for fear that it was easily used by tyrannts on its own people or for whatever wars they could imagine. It was definately not designed as a vocational school, as we have morphed it into.

America is what it is today, because of our military might and prowess. Some look at this with pride, some with disdain. Both have their arguments and both are correct in their reasoning. Is America supposed to be an empire or a small republic? Is there ramifications to interfering in matters all over the world? Is there ramifications for ignoring matters all over the world?

 

[Razorguns]

My problem is a certain huge segment of the population who feel enlisting is *beneath* them.

What they do instead -- is use their riches to dangle carrots in front of the poor to go die for them.

Politicians and Execs get young inner-city poor kids to die for them, so their rich surbuban spoiled kids can enjoy bentley's and private schools and democracy.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

as far as afgahnistan is concerned, some of the 50,000 soviet soldiers killed were children of the elites, the military, party and kgb/gru higher ups. as it wore on, the ranks future leaders who would have continued the Stalinistic 'old-school' policies of political suppression, despotic rule, and compelled (sp?) virtues were decimated. many of the soldiers who did return home were unable to reacclimate to a whatever a normal life would have been. force the ivy leaguers and the children of the intellectuals, industry types and power brokers to fight and the approximate could happen here. this presupposes that the united states would get involved in a protracted land war with mucho casualties.

yup.

and the USSR had to use those groups because the lower classes of their society were derived from the fringe republics, while the "russians" were the elites.

The USSR could not use the fringe people to fight the war because they were sympatheitc to Islam and Afghanistan. So they had to draw from their best and brightest, hastening their destruction.

 

[jnuts]

Not to offend any who have served, but our system of military is the antithesis of what our country was designed to have. Our Founders DID NOT want a constant standing army

But they DID want a standing navy....

 

[javaguru]

Since the rise of gunpowder the vast majority of the dying has always been done by the poor. During the Napoleonic era it was against the rules of war to target officers on the battlefield because it was believed the uneducated and unwashed masses that made up the enlisted ranks would become uncontrollable animals. The army was also a way for the non-landed elites to gain wealth as successful officers, not nationalistic reasons per se. It has been repeated but never proven Wellington said he feared his own men more than the enemy as they were derelicts and criminals from the streets of London.

 

[curling]

So basically only the POOR should die for our country, so the rich can live it up and party and drive SUV's.

.

Their poor. What the hell else do they have to live for?

 

[Robert Jan]

have you ever served in the military? what experience and insight do you have to pass judgement on the army as an institution? did you even graduate high school yet?

i did the whole college thing; i studied, i went to parties, i was in a fraternity (one of this country's largest), etc. etc., and i enjoy being in the service far more than anything i have ever done thus far in my life.

it gets boring be a spoiled brat with mommy and daddy paying all of your tuition, books, food, rent, credit card bills, etc. four years go by, and you realize you didn't accomplish jack shit by yourself, and you still cant appreciate anything because everything was already given to you.

i saw many of my friends, who hadn't accomplished shit, had no real goals or ambitions, had no real job prospects lined up (and still dont), going to grad school because they are too afraid to give up the 'student status' and actually face the real world, and i realized they were a reflection of myself, and it scared the shit out of me. that's one of the main reasons i decided to join, and it was the best decision i ever made.

another reason for joining, was because i want to live an authentic life. i didn't want to go the traditional route that so many in society do; high school -> college -> job -> family -> retire. that's bullshit. i wanted to have the opportunities to do shit that so many people won't have the opportunity to do, and the military is one of the few places that actually affords someone the chance to do something different.

but that's cool. if people don't want to serve, that's their choice and their business. but when they look back on their life and see everything that had once worked hard at was either destroyed or thrown away and pretty much added up to nothing and didnt have any significant impact on society (or even history), that's something they have to deal with.

sure those invoices, reports, projects, presentations, meeting preps, etc might seem like big, important shit now, but in a matter of days/weeks/months/years they will add up to shit, and all you worked so hard on and slaved and stressed over will soon be forgotten.

i would rather be a part of an organization that fights for something, rather than another brain-dead adolescent trying to fight against anything and everything.

Thanks for the insult.
I'm not braindead. I'm also not the prep trust fund kid you seem to describe.

Now your arguments are really all based on subjective interest. All things sort of just amount to nothing except being in the military?

You seem to place people who dont want to be in the military in a category of people who dont really accomplish anything or have real goals.
I personally think soldiers have no real ambitions or goals and dont accomplish anything. They enjoy feeling good about being a piece of a greater machine they have no control over and enjoy being told its good what theyre doing.

Just what did you do that "lasted" and was so good for the world and for you?
Just because it made you feel good about yourself for some irrational reason doesnt make it right for everyone.

Just what great effect did you have on history?

 

[Lao Tzu]

Thanks for the insult.
I'm not braindead. I'm also not the prep trust fund kid you seem to describe.

Now your arguments are really all based on subjective interest. All things sort of just amount to nothing except being in the military?

Just what did you do that "lasted" and was so good for the world and for you?
Just because it made you feel good about yourself for some irrational reason doesnt make it right for everyone.

Just what great effect did you have on history?

I dont think p0ink was talking about you, i think he was referring to the people he goes to college with.

I'm all for the military being a vocational school now. Has the military gotten weaker because of it? no, we kicked the shit out of the Iraqi army with 1/4 as many troops. Not only that, but giving incentives like that will increase recruitment. But now that people realize we are at war all the time and probably will be for the next 10 years expect recruitment to drop fast.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

actually, i believe i heard the Army has already exceeded their desired retention rate for this half of the fiscal year.

 

[collegiateLifter]

Hey,

Explain to us how the USSRs war in Afghanistan hastened the demise of the USSR, focusing specifically on who was in the Soviet Army and why they had to draw from those sectors.

I have heard your theory about this before but then I have heard that all kinds of people, rich and poor have been killed as a result of the ongoing Chechnya situation.

 

[collegiateLifter]

My problem is a certain huge segment of the population who feel enlisting is *beneath* them.

What they do instead -- is use their riches to dangle carrots in front of the poor to go die for them.

Politicians and Execs get young inner-city poor kids to die for them, so their rich surbuban spoiled kids can enjoy bentley's and private schools and democracy.

It sounds to me not like an issue of fairness, but pure envy on your side.

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

If you consider that our country is perpetually at war somewhere in the world, most wealthy people are going stay away from the military. Perhaps if we only used the military to PROTECT our lives instead of jumping into the civil wars of other countries, protecting our oil supply, arresting drug suppliers (Noriega), and overthrowing the leaders of other countries, more people might feel like joining the military was a patriotic thing to do. However our leaders send our soldiers around the world with recklessness.

 

[manny78]

This Pat Tillman thing got me thinking. This guy gave up MILLIONS and a huge CAREER of fame, fortune and women -- to serve his country. You hear about this things like once every hundred years.

So..

How come rich people, rich families with young sons/daughters, sons of politicians, etc. don't enlist? You'll never see the US Army at the Harvard campus or Wall Street trying to enlist folks. It's always young white/black lower to middle class blue-collar folks and their families who are the most patriotic and give their lives. That's gotta change.

I don't think the backbone of this country should shoulder the responsibility of protecting it. How about throwing high income folks, people out of business college, sons of politicians, illegal aliens -- to the service. If they're gonna freakin' enjoy the same land, and benefits and freedoms -- they need to start pulling their own damn weight too.

Cause they aren't stupid. They dont feel like fighting for someone's else cause. They see their current lifestyle as more productive for the society than grabbing a M-16 and shooting at some Iraqis... just my 0.02...

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

Doesn't anyone else find some irony in that John Kerry was a rich kid from an ivy league school that enlisted and served in combat, however, team Bush is questioning his patriotism?

 

[Lao Tzu]

actually, i believe i heard the Army has already exceeded their desired retention rate for this half of the fiscal year.

It has but i think long term (like the next 10 years) we could have problems if people who are in high school think they have a good chance of being sent to North Korea/Pakistan/Malaysia/shitty country X instead of just doing 2 weekends a month to pay for college like they wanted.

 

[WODIN]

This Pat Tillman thing got me thinking. This guy gave up MILLIONS and a huge CAREER of fame, fortune and women -- to serve his country. You hear about this things like once every hundred years.

So..

How come rich people, rich families with young sons/daughters, sons of politicians, etc. don't enlist? You'll never see the US Army at the Harvard campus or Wall Street trying to enlist folks. It's always young white/black lower to middle class blue-collar folks and their families who are the most patriotic and give their lives. That's gotta change.

I don't think the backbone of this country should shoulder the responsibility of protecting it. How about throwing high income folks, people out of business college, sons of politicians, illegal aliens -- to the service. If they're gonna freakin' enjoy the same land, and benefits and freedoms -- they need to start pulling their own damn weight too.

BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!! BWAUGH!!!

 

[Lao Tzu]

Doesn't anyone else find some irony in that John Kerry was a rich kid from an ivy league school that enlisted and served in combat, however, team Bush is questioning his patriotism?

thats because they define patriotism different. Plus sadly democrats and all leftists have gotten a reputation of being automatically anti-american. WHile true of the hard left, i dont think its true overall.

 

[Tiervexx]

I don't think the backbone of this country should shoulder the responsibility of protecting it. How about throwing high income folks, people out of business college, sons of politicians, illegal aliens -- to the service. If they're gonna freakin' enjoy the same land, and benefits and freedoms -- they need to start pulling their own damn weight too.

Are you retarded?

 

[Razorguns]

Actually rich and intelligent people know that war is stupid, and question the ethics and reasoning behind the campaign and weigh the pros and cons and intelligently decide NOT to pursue it.

The poor are lowly-educated, and much more prone to go for the dangling carrot in front of them. Thinking they can just go in, do their 2 years, grab their free education and split.

It's just the government taking care of the vulnerable. The draft will never come in, cuz even the President's son could get sent away.