Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below 
redsamurai
Banned
And at what dose? I realize if you take it transdermally it's better........but strictly taking it orally, how much do you have to take per day to see some benefits in the gym?
how anabolic is DHEA??
- Thread starter redsamurai
- Start date
redsamurai said:
If going oral you would probably have to take something like 1-2gm ED for a decent anabolic effect.
-Pp
redsamurai
Banned
Primordial Performance said:
jesus, that's alot............lemme guess though, good ole derm get's it to ya for half that right?...lol.
redsamurai said:
Good ol Dermacrine passes through the skin, which is rich with steroidogenic enzymes that convert DHEA to more active hormones. Unlike the digestive track, skin is ideal for DHEA delivery. It seems that DHEA is more estrogenic when taken orally too because of the metabolism by the liver.
-Pp
calveless wonder
New member
i don't know, but i felt pretty good on 50-75mg's a day PCT. since i stopped taking it i could feel a difference
Raptorex
New member
Best avail I could pubmed.
J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2007 Oct;107(1-2):57-69. Epub 2007 Jun 8. Links
Bioavailability and metabolism of oral and percutaneous dehydroepiandrosterone in postmenopausal women.Labrie F, Bélanger A, Labrie C, Candas B, Cusan L, Gomez JL.
Molecular Endocrinology and Oncology Research Center, Laval University Hospital (CHUL) and Laval University, Quebec City, Quebec G1V 4G2, Canada.
To study the bioavailability of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) administered by the oral and percutaneous routes, three groups of 12 postmenopausal women aged 60-70 years received two capsules of 50mg of DHEA orally before breakfast daily for 14 days or applied 4 g of a 10% DHEA cream or gel at the same time of the day on a 30 cm x 30 cm surface area on the thighs. Detailed serial blood sampling over 24h was performed following 1st and 14th DHEA administration for measurement of DHEA and nine of its metabolites by liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS) or gas chromatography mass spectrometry (GC-MS). Serum levels of estrone (E1) and estradiol (E2) did not change following DHEA administration by any of the three formulations, while serum androstenedione (4-dione), testosterone, DHEA sulfate (DHEA-S), E(1)-S, androsterone glucuronide (ADT-G) and 3alpha-androstanediol-G (3alpha-diol-G), increased in all cases, the effect on these parameters being more important after oral than percutaneous administration due to the metabolism of DHEA into these metabolites in the gastrointestinal tract and liver. No qualitative differences in DHEA metabolism are observed between the oral and percutaneous routes of DHEA administration while the levels of all steroids remain on a plateau during the 24h period during chronic percutaneous DHEA administration. The present data show that DHEA is transformed into active androgens and estrogens in peripheral intracrine tissues with no or minimal release of the active steroids E(1), E(2) or testosterone in the circulation. Moreover, DHEA is preferentially transformed into androgens rather than into estrogens. Most importantly, the present data show that changes in serum DHEA following oral or percutaneous DHEA administration are not a valid parameter of DHEA action since the increase in serum DHEA is at least 100% greater than the increase in the formation of active androgens and estrogens and thus much higher than the potential physiological effects.
PMID: 17627814 [PubMed - in process]
J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2007 Oct;107(1-2):57-69. Epub 2007 Jun 8. Links
Bioavailability and metabolism of oral and percutaneous dehydroepiandrosterone in postmenopausal women.Labrie F, Bélanger A, Labrie C, Candas B, Cusan L, Gomez JL.
Molecular Endocrinology and Oncology Research Center, Laval University Hospital (CHUL) and Laval University, Quebec City, Quebec G1V 4G2, Canada.
To study the bioavailability of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) administered by the oral and percutaneous routes, three groups of 12 postmenopausal women aged 60-70 years received two capsules of 50mg of DHEA orally before breakfast daily for 14 days or applied 4 g of a 10% DHEA cream or gel at the same time of the day on a 30 cm x 30 cm surface area on the thighs. Detailed serial blood sampling over 24h was performed following 1st and 14th DHEA administration for measurement of DHEA and nine of its metabolites by liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS) or gas chromatography mass spectrometry (GC-MS). Serum levels of estrone (E1) and estradiol (E2) did not change following DHEA administration by any of the three formulations, while serum androstenedione (4-dione), testosterone, DHEA sulfate (DHEA-S), E(1)-S, androsterone glucuronide (ADT-G) and 3alpha-androstanediol-G (3alpha-diol-G), increased in all cases, the effect on these parameters being more important after oral than percutaneous administration due to the metabolism of DHEA into these metabolites in the gastrointestinal tract and liver. No qualitative differences in DHEA metabolism are observed between the oral and percutaneous routes of DHEA administration while the levels of all steroids remain on a plateau during the 24h period during chronic percutaneous DHEA administration. The present data show that DHEA is transformed into active androgens and estrogens in peripheral intracrine tissues with no or minimal release of the active steroids E(1), E(2) or testosterone in the circulation. Moreover, DHEA is preferentially transformed into androgens rather than into estrogens. Most importantly, the present data show that changes in serum DHEA following oral or percutaneous DHEA administration are not a valid parameter of DHEA action since the increase in serum DHEA is at least 100% greater than the increase in the formation of active androgens and estrogens and thus much higher than the potential physiological effects.
PMID: 17627814 [PubMed - in process]
A
ALIN
Guest
i guess ive never gave DHEA a fair look.
redsamurai
Banned
que hablo englese please!! C'mon noobi..........will it pack on 5 pounds of muscle mass in 7 days or not???... 
lol, j/k............on a serious note though.........is this saying that DHEA is readily converting to adrogens no matter if it's oral or transdermal? Does it substantially increase testosterone or "other" androgens?? I'll admit I'm having trouble completely grasping the language........it's like reading lawyer speak sometimes.
lol, j/k............on a serious note though.........is this saying that DHEA is readily converting to adrogens no matter if it's oral or transdermal? Does it substantially increase testosterone or "other" androgens?? I'll admit I'm having trouble completely grasping the language........it's like reading lawyer speak sometimes.
MightyMouse69 said:
redsamurai said:que hablo englese please!! C'mon noobi..........will it pack on 5 pounds of muscle mass in 7 days or not???...
lol, j/k............on a serious note though.........is this saying that DHEA is readily converting to adrogens no matter if it's oral or transdermal? Does it substantially increase testosterone or "other" androgens?? I'll admit I'm having trouble completely grasping the language........it's like reading lawyer speak sometimes.
Its saying that it readily converts to androgens... but this is in women. Us men should use our skin enzymes to convert DHEA to androgens, rather than our digestive tracks. For some reason, when men take DHEA oraly it tends to convert to estrogen more.
Paradox? Yes.
-Pp
Last edited:
nvrfckwthme
New member
dont waste your $
guarded_one
New member
I feel better when taking 50 to 75mg's
needtogetaas
New member
I have some thats says 7-keto dhea dose not convert to estro at all. How true it is I don't know, But every thing I have read says it don't.MightyMouse69 said:
needtogetaas
New member
Thats just 7-keto dhea. I Must also tell you that 7-keto dhea dos not metabolized to active androgenic hormones ether though. Or at least most of the studies I have seen show this...Kind of pointless to take I guess.MightyMouse69 said:
Raptorex
New member
Not sure if your correct since here is some contradictory evidence.needtogetaas said:
This is from a medical library site (non-commercial):
Potential Benefits of 7-KETO DHEA
"According to Henry Lardy, PhD, of the National Academy of Sciences, 7-KETO DHEA offers the potential benefits of DHEA without the risks. 7-KETO DHEA is a natural metabolite, also called conversion product, of DHEA. Once DHEA is converted to the 7-KETO form it can no longer be used to make the sex hormones that present cancer risks.
In preliminary studies on animals, 7-Keto DHEA stimulates the immune system, prevents muscle loss (anti-catabolic), reduces stress, increases the calorie-burning rate by activating thermogenic liver enzymes and improves memory more than DHEA or a placebo. Monkeys infected with the simian version of HIV displayed weight gain, a five-fold increase in T-cell counts and improvement in overall behavior and clinical condition.
Is 7-KETO DHEA safe?
Short and long-term safety studies show 7-KETO DHEA is not mutagenic. That means it has not damaged the DNA in rats and monkeys, and it has no other adverse effects, even at milligram/body weight doses up to 70 times the recommended dose for humans, which is 50 mg a day.
One 28-day human safety trial has been completed. It confirmed that 7-KETO DHEA does not raise levels of sex or other hormones or affect blood and urine chemistry, at doses of up to 200 mg per day. It cannot convert to estrogens or testosterone, so it cannot promote prostate enlargement or cancer, breast tumors and other sex hormone effects that may occur with DHEA supplementation."
http://uimc.discoveryhospital.com/main.php?t=symptom&p=7-keto__a_better_way_to_take_d
Last edited by a moderator:
MightyMouse69 said:
I think that info was saying just what needto was saying... basically 7-keto has no androgenic or estrogenic effects and that it’s a good fat burner. I’m sure it explains a majority of your good results.
As far as oral DHEA being more estrogenic in men than women, here is a quick quote from a study. You will find the same info in most comprehensive DHEA studies.
The Dehydroepiandrosterone And WellNess (DAWN) study:
Research design and methods
Denise von Mühlen et al. (2007)
“The biotransformation of exogenously administered DHEA is sex-specific. Evidence from a number of human trials indicates that a 50 mg oral dose of DHEA restores DHEA(S) levels in older men and women to those of young adults [5–9]. In elderly men a dose of 50 mg DHEA induces significant increases in serum estrogen concentrations, whereas testosterone and DHT, the main circulating androgens in men, are unaltered [5,9]. In contrast, oral administration of the same dose to dexamethasone-suppressed young women [10] and to older women [9] results in an elevation of serum androgens, but minimal or no change in estrogens. Thus, oral administration of DHEA has opposing effects on the androgen/estrogen ratio in men and women, whichmay explain the gender-specificity of some
clinical trial results.”
-Pp
redsamurai
Banned
If this were the case, than why does dhea shut you down over longer term use?
Primordial Performance said:
redsamurai said:
DHEA shuts you down because it converts to androgens and estrogens, and those hormones shut you down.
-Pp
needtogetaas
New member
MightyMouse69 said:
Ya thats just what I said...Not altogether useless but as for raising test its useless.
Raptorex
New member
I discovered in my research today the following Bill introduced to the House, not sure you guys knew about it:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-762
The result would require a prescription if passed...lol
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s110-762
The result would require a prescription if passed...lol
MightyMouse69 said:
Im not too worried. So far no one is supporting the bill.
-Pp
