how about this!!!!!!!!!!

[RamRom]

how about 4 exercises 3 sets 6 - 8 reps for each body part a day

meaing
4 exercises for Biceps 3 sets 6-8 reps and so on

so 4 times a week
monday: arms
tudaday chest
wends: legs
thursday: back and forearms

or any other order


how about it?

so 4 times a week


good, bad, not enough, too much????

 

[blut wump]

If I read that correctly, you'd be giving your arms more work that your legs and your back gets itself seriously short-changed.

I can't say I'm keen. Build yourself a program based around benching, squatting, deadlifting, overhead pressing, rowing and you might have something rather than some vague arms, chest, legs, back.

You might want to give yourself a larger gap between legs and back, though.

 

[Madcow2]

There's a lot of links and some pretty substantial information in this very recent thread http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=414363. I think if you work your way through it you'll likely get a good feel for what would take a lot of time to type and sugar coat. Essentially, concentrate on the big lifts, dump most of the crap unless it really serves a targeted purpose in addressing a current problem, increase your capacity systematically over time (i.e. get stronger in some type of hypertrophy range), and eat to support growth. You'll find a lot more muscle than any fancy bullshit split, loaded with isolation work, training a bodypart 1x per week will ever give you. This is a pretty common way to add muscle and bulk athletes and lifters all over the world. Plenty of people have been stunned by how well it works in this forum - those people were generally running something similar to what you propose beforehand and have made the best gains of their lives since abandoning it.

 

[reigninghard]

Monday: Chest and Back
Tues: Legs
Wednes:Shoulders
Thurs:Tri's and Bi's
Friday: Abs...Cardio....etc

4 exercises @ 3 sets 10 reps...or pyramid for more size and strength

When you get all 3 sets of any exercise without cheating, move up in weight. Never do the same weight twice if you have successfully lifted.

Working very well for me, but to each their own

 

[RamRom]

If I read that correctly, you'd be giving your arms more work that your legs and your back gets itself seriously short-changed.

I can't say I'm keen. Build yourself a program based around benching, squatting, deadlifting, overhead pressing, rowing and you might have something rather than some vague arms, chest, legs, back.

You might want to give yourself a larger gap between legs and back, though.

how about the exercises, sets and reps, are they enough, and for the order might need help for that
------------
i read about the Madcow, and i never understood it, but i can get help on inderstanding and maybe write a 3 month routine will be good to try.
------------

i just want to make something clear, right now i'm a wrestler in the indy seen and i would like to make it one day, but not with this body, this is not to gain crazy strength or power, all i'm doing this go put on some good mass to look good one day on TV, sure u have to be strong to lift heavy and stuff but not to a point where to go and try to get to 300lbs bench or 500 squatting, all i need is a good routin to give me size and to look good in the ring

thats why i wanted to know if 4 exercises 3 sets 6 - 8 reps or 10 reps is good enough for what i want. and help with the order and what to train on what days.


THANKS

 

[Guinness5.0]

thats why i wanted to know if 4 exercises 3 sets 6 - 8 reps or 10 reps is good enough for what i want. and help with the order and what to train on what days.


THANKS

This better body that you're after isn't locked in a particular set/rep scheme.

Bro the advice you were given by mc is the advice you should take. Bigger and stronger go together. What you proposed originally is typical of gym lore/BB magazine BS. It ain't your fault that seemingly credible sources spew crap, but you've been shown a better way to go about your goal. It's up to you to figure out whether to go with what ACTUALLY WORKS or stick with the same lame duck.

Chack some of the journals on here. Real, normal, "genetically-challenged" people w/out drugs will grow the best by using squats, deads, bench and overhead pressing, rows, etc. as the basis of a program which is meant to increase the athlete's capacity in said lifts over a period of time. The juice monsters probaby would too, but my guess is their tendons/ligaments wouldn't hold up to the rapid strength gains

 

[Madcow2]

Muscles hypertrophy as a response to increased capacity (i.e. getting stronger - doesn't have to be 1RM, can be 5RM or 8RM or 5x5 or 3x8 or 8x3 - a lot of these are going to be more appropriate for hypertrophy anyway). The best way to elicit a response and convince the body of a need to adapt is to stress the entire system (i.e. compound lifts which drive 95% of your results anyway). Muscle is muscle. Strength training and bodybuilding are not night and day - much closer to running the 40 yard dash vs. the 45 yard dash. Considering there is a massive amount of research on improving the 40 yards it probably pays to take a look at that because most of what has been written by the 45 yard club is generally baseless garbage. If there is a group of people more collectively frustrated and ignorant in their efforts than bodybuilders (not all just a very large segment) I don't know of one. If you improve the compound lifts systematically over time, your body will adapt with increased muscle mass. If you dilute your efforts needlessly with assistance work that is not specifically targeted to a "current" weak point you give up the ability to devote more effort to the compound lifts which are your whole basis for progress. Most people find they develop very symmetrically and need about 5% of the assistance work that used to make up their routine during the course of a year.

Check out the pictures in this thread - I think this is a body you wouldn't mind having: http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=1110

A bodybuilder actually asks him about his training later, you can read the whole thing but I'll quote it here:

Dave, seems like your success at dieting down has made it's way to several forums. It's what got my attention and subesquently joined this board.

It's caused quite a furor, so many pundits espouse the basic get BIG and STRONG for a few years (like 5 years), then worry about dieting down to look like a bodybuilder. Nothing gives credance to writing as a few well placed pictures.

Your physique is on par with many Pro BB out there. I realize PL centers around the big 3 lifts, but how much more work did you do to hone your physique? Not to take away from what you've accomplished, but your physique looks far too polished to have been built doing just 3 basic exercises and some auxilary work (but I'd love to be wrong about this). Did you incorporate a variety of BB movements? Did you at times do volume training?

Lastly, do you find now that you're leaner that getting back up to 320 may not be necessary to hit your peak strength levels again, or do you feel you have to be that big and heavy to move the weights you moved at that weight?

Nick, I can't say I've ever done much BB type of training other than in high school. Just recently I've started doing curls with any regularity. That's probably obvious as my biceps are awful. I've also just started doing more volume for my back. In the past after a bench workout I'd just throw in some pulldowns or pullups. I did do some heavy bent rows and got fairly strong on those. Really all my hypertrophy work was more of an afterthought, thrown in for a few sets at the end of a workout. Since I was about 220lbs I've been mainly concerned with getting my numbers on my ME moves higher, my DE weights higher and faster, eating a ton of food and keeping the scale number going up. For years I really gave my physic no thought when it came to training.

I think I'm closing in on the numbers I was hitting at 300+. It's taken a while but I seem to be getting there.

I also enjoyed this sliver of sarcasm that is fairly pertinent:

What a lot of strength athletes don't understand is that bodybuilding is totally different. A whole different type of hypertophy that requires vastly different exotic training methods that rarely get results and generally require anabolics to break 200lbs. Let me tell you all that building significant muscle mass on a Yoda-esque program using exotic rep schemes on cables and machines, days of dedicated biceps training, with an overbearing focus on trace mineral balance and insufficient caloric intake makes it really hard to put on muscle. These guys have to have it all together to show any appreciable gains.

Guys that eat and are able to rely on basic programs to increase their weights in squats, pulls, and presses doing basic exercises that strengthen the body and force it to adapt with increased muscle have it easy. They will never know what it's like to fight through moronic inefficiency to needlessly differentiate your training and alleviate worry that when you eventually do start gaining weight someday, it will be in perfect symmetry and proportion - all at 2lbs a year.

Why don't you tell us about your training history, what your lifts are in the bench, squat, dead, row, powerclean (or whichever ones you do), and your current condition (or you high bodyfat, low and have trouble putting on mass - whatever).

 

[psychedout]

how about 4 exercises 3 sets 6 - 8 reps for each body part a day

meaing
4 exercises for Biceps 3 sets 6-8 reps and so on

so 4 times a week
monday: arms
tudaday chest
wends: legs
thursday: back and forearms

or any other order


how about it?

so 4 times a week


good, bad, not enough, too much????

I didn't read any responses, so I may be repeating some people. But I personally think its not that great. Training every second day is fine if you ask me. I'd hit each major core lift twice per week as well. That includes benching twice, squatting twice, and rowing twice. As well i'd through in the clean and press or SOHP, as well was weighted chins and deadlifts to compliment them.

You can through in accesory work as you see fit, but it should not be the basis of your program.

Honestly, off the top of my head, heres a program I would use:

Monday
-Bench press
-Dynamic Row
-Squats
-Barbell Curl
-Calve Raise

Wednesday
-Deadlift
-Weighted Chins
-SOHP
-Narrow Grip Bench
-Abs work

Friday
-Incline Bench Press
-Dynamic Row
-Squats
-Weighted Dips
-Abs work

 

[RamRom]

hey madcow2, this guy is huge, what i'm looking for is something like THE ROCK, i'm sure u guys know him. and this is my workout looks like

http://www.themansourfamily.com/MAX-OT.pdf

go to page 133 and so on

i'm 5'7, 160lbs, me http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc012720qe.jpg

----------------------------
psychedout,

how many sets and reps should i do for this workout?

 

[Guinness5.0]

psychedout,

how many sets and reps should i do for this workout?

I realize this was addressed to psychedout, but that routine basically IS the bill starr 5x5. So to answer: 5x5

 

[bignate73]

What a lot of strength athletes don't understand is that bodybuilding is totally different. A whole different type of hypertophy that requires vastly different exotic training methods that rarely get results and generally require anabolics to break 200lbs. Let me tell you all that building significant muscle mass on a Yoda-esque program using exotic rep schemes on cables and machines, days of dedicated biceps training, with an overbearing focus on trace mineral balance and insufficient caloric intake makes it really hard to put on muscle. These guys have to have it all together to show any appreciable gains.

hehehe...i like that one too. seems so applicable of a response to so many posts.

 

[Madcow2]

hey madcow2, this guy is huge, what i'm looking for is something like THE ROCK, i'm sure u guys know him. and this is my workout looks like

http://www.themansourfamily.com/MAX-OT.pdf

go to page 133 and so on

i'm 5'7, 160lbs, me http://img159.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc012720qe.jpg

----------------------------
psychedout,

how many sets and reps should i do for this workout?

You do realize the Rock played football. Very high likelyhood (certain) most of his size came from squat, bench, dead, clean as most football program prioritize these and they tend to make people fairly large and muscular. If you look at the 5x5 or what psychedout recommended (which is very similar) these are basically programs that would fit either anyone looking to put on muscle. The origin of this program is football anyway and was used to strengthen, add muscle, and improve performance. I mean really, you are 5'7" and 160lbs - you need to put on muscle and there's really no better way to do it.

 

[mrhoon]

MC, you truely are a gift to us all. Thank you. I admire how day after day, you patiently explain how simple it can be, to those who don't want to listen. I know you've been busy, thanks for putting in the time here. Great posts.



You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Madcow2 again.

 

[RamRom]

next week i'm gonna try this workout

5x5

Monday
-Bench press
-Dynamic Row
-Squats
-Barbell Curl
-Calve Raise

Wednesday
-Deadlift
-Weighted Chins
-SOHP
-Narrow Grip Bench
-Abs work

Friday
-Incline Bench Press
-Dynamic Row
-Squats
-Weighted Dips
-Abs work

for couple of weeks and will see what happenes, thanks guys for the input, realy helped

WHAT's SOHP?

 

[Madcow2]

next week i'm gonna try this workout

5x5

Monday
-Bench press
-Dynamic Row
-Squats
-Barbell Curl
-Calve Raise

Wednesday
-Deadlift
-Weighted Chins
-SOHP
-Narrow Grip Bench
-Abs work

Friday
-Incline Bench Press
-Dynamic Row
-Squats
-Weighted Dips
-Abs work

for couple of weeks and will see what happenes, thanks guys for the input, realy helped

WHAT's SOHP?

Listen - you can't do that. Straight sets of 5x5 with working weight is going to crush you in a few weeks. That's why there are progressions and workloads are altered to fit each plan.

Here is a layout that can be run linearly and given your experience is the most suited: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4497774&postcount=15

You'll see how this changes and is periodized later on for more experienced lifters (i.1. 1 day of 5x5 working weight and another day of 5x5 with increasing weight set to set i.e. called 1x5): http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4764723&postcount=381

When adding volume to the program above you do straight 5x5 M and F.

This is why periodization is done for more advanced lifters and athletes when linear programs stop working: http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/PlannedOvertraining.html

 

[blut wump]

Standing OverHead Press often called Military Press.

 

[Guinness5.0]

Yes I'm sorry I did not make the distinction b/t 5 sets of five with the same weight versus 5 sets of 5 with pyramiding weight. The two are VASTLY different. The first link in mc's post above is what you want to do.

Also, the importance of free-weight barbell squatting with proper depth CANNOT be overemphasized. I bring it up becasue it seems that someone always either wants to cop out of it or has some sort of equipment limitation that prevents full free squats.

here's some squat info that may help (post #12) :
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=414363

 

[Madcow2]

Probably an excellent idea to read and study all of Arioch's writeups here on the squat, bench, and dead. They are uniformly excellent.

http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totalelite/index.php?showtopic=14

 

[Guinness5.0]

(off-topic)
How do you link to a single post mc? I wanted to link to post 12 in the link I posted above. I added "&postcount=12" 'cuz that 's what seems to be added when you link to one post (obviously adjusting for the post # in question) but it still pulled up the whole thread. I quit trying b/c that whole thread has good stuff on it.

Sorry to hi-jack

 

[blut wump]

Right click on the number in the top-right of a post. Copy Link.