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Hockey guys and gals...

T

The_Ghost

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We should know about the season in 45 mintues :worried:


Canadian Press



12/14/2004

NHL labour talks have wrapped up in Toronto.



NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow and NHL commissioner Gary Bettman began meeting at 1pm et/10am pt at the NHL offices located in the Air Canada Centre. The negotiations concluded at 4:30pm et and the NHLPA will hold a news conference at 5:30pm et.






There seemed little suspense going into the meeting after a league memo, obtained by TSN, surfaced Monday with the news that the league had rejected the union's offer.






Related Info
NHL to reject NHLPA proposal
McKenzie: Memo dims hope for resolution

Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer, said in the memo that the union offer fell short of providing ''the fundamental systemic changes'' required.



The leak also came on the heels of criticism of the union offer from the ownership of the Edmonton Oilers and Ottawa Senators.



The NHLPA, meanwhile, reiterated that its proposal does change hockey's economic landscape.



NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin said the 24 per cent rollback on existing contracts will result in savings of more than $500 million US, with another $500 million coming from other proposed changes.



Last week's talks, when the union tabled its proposal, lasted about four hours.



As of Tuesday, the lockout had wiped out 414 of 1,230 regular season games.
 
i love hockey awesome
dont have a fav team but just enjoy watching games
 
My company is supposed to help the NHL get a stronger foothold in hollywood and get more creative and high profile marketing opportunies going in a bid to make the whole sport more marketable and visible...

but unfortunately, i'm kinda slammed right now with. But i do feel for those guys. Every hockey person both players and mgt i've met so far has been top-notch and truly have a passion and love for the game.

More than i can say about baseball and basketball folks. :)
 
Razorguns said:
My company is supposed to help the NHL get a stronger foothold in hollywood and get more creative and high profile marketing opportunies going in a bid to make the whole sport more marketable and visible...

but unfortunately, i'm kinda slammed right now with. But i do feel for those guys. Every hockey person both players and mgt i've met so far has been top-notch and truly have a passion and love for the game.

More than i can say about baseball and basketball folks. :)
Click to expand...


yeah Foodball and basketball players usually get the big deals...
 
its all over for now folks :(


League, union reject proposals


TSN/Canadian Press



12/14/2004

TORONTO (CP) - NHL labour talks were derailed Tuesday after each side rejected the other's proposal.



The talks lasted about 3 1/2 hours. The league made a one-hour presentation on its counter-proposal, which included a salary cap, prompting the NHL Players' Association to ask for a caucus, which lasted 2 1/2 hours. The union then returned to the room and ended the meeting.



There are no future talks planned at this time to end the NHL lockout, which including Tuesday night has wiped out 414 games.



As expected, the NHL rejected the union's proposal.






"The unanimous conclusion was the union's proposal does not work," commissioner Gary Bettman told a news conference. "It is dramatic in its immediate, short-term impact, but is fatally flawed as a system going forward."



The NHL Players' Association then dismissed the league counter-proposal.



But Bettman said insisted that the two side were not that far apart.



"The union's offer of the rollback (of 24 per cent on existing contracts) was a great start. Now, let's get together and fix the system the right way," he said.



"If you accept everything the union says will result from their proposal, the players will receive 56.6 per cent of our revenues on Day 1 of a new agreement. To repeat, the players' proposal translates to 56.6 per cent. We countered at 54 per cent."



The league counter-offer contained what the Bettman called a "salary range, which, based on last year's economics, would see team player costs between $38.6 million and $34.6 million (US)," the commissioner added.



The league also revamped the union rollback offer, proposing a graduated scale. Players making less than $800,000 would not see have their salary diminished at all. Those making $5 million or more would be have 35 per cent taken away from their existing contract.



The NHL proposal would mean 731 players - or 91.8 per cent - would be at or below the union's proposed 24 per cent, the league said.



The NHLPA scheduled a news conference for later Tuesday.



Bettman's right-hand man, meanwhile, also looked for positives.



"We'll keep working at it," said Bill Daly, the NHL's executive vice-president and chief legal officer. "It's hard to draw any conclusions from this meeting other than we're still not any closer to a resolution.



"Bob (NHLPA boss Bob Goodenow) was polite but it was brief when the union came back into the room," Daly added. "We'll see where we go from here."



Goodenow arrived to meet Bettman just before 1 p.m. at the NHL offices. He was flanked by association executive president Trevor Linden and executive members Daniel Alfredsson, Bill Guerin, Bob Boughner, Trent Klatt, Arturs Irbe and Vince Damphousse.



There seemed little suspense going into the meeting after a league memo, obtained by TSN, surfaced Monday with the news that the league had rejected the union's recent offer.



Plus the NHL has insisted that any solution include "cost certainty," a measure the league sees as linking revenue and costs.



Daly said in the memo that the union offer fell short of providing "the fundamental systemic changes" required.



The leak also came on the heels of criticism of the union offer from the ownership of the Edmonton Oilers and Ottawa Senators.



The NHLPA, meanwhile, reiterated that its proposal does change hockey's economic landscape.



NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin said the 24 per cent rollback on existing contracts will result in savings of more than $500 million US, with another $500 million coming from other proposed changes.



Last week's talks, when the union tabled its proposal, lasted about four hours.
 
The Bigdawg said:
Yea I can't wait, they are 2 hours south of me so i am looking at going to some.
Click to expand...

You're in the 'peg right. Did you see any games live in 1999. Those were some of the best games I have ever seen(on T.V unfortunately) in the history of that tournament.

Nothing like a white out at the old barn, especially when team Canada is playing. Even watching on T.V I got goosebumps watching some of those games.
 
The Union are a bunch of morons.

The league (from what i read) had a great deal: poor players don't get penalized much -- rich players take the biggest hit. They were already pretty close on the negotiations with what the union was asking for. It was like what, 2 percent difference?

Then the union did the worst move anyone can do during cooborative mutually-inclined negotiations. Put a wall up and walk out. Never a good way to create a pleasant, attractive environment for both sides to work out an agreement.

Now both sides are pissed, going to hold on even more tightly to their pre-defined agendas, and nobody wins.

Has anyone in that union even went to business school and worked in management? I doubt it.

Good going.
 
QT in nothing but a jersey.....now that's good hockey. ;)
 
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!
 
I like hockey, but only when i'm at a game. It's kinda like nascar, good at the event, but not on tv

Whiskey
 
BBC said:
You're in the 'peg right. Did you see any games live in 1999. Those were some of the best games I have ever seen(on T.V unfortunately) in the history of that tournament.

Nothing like a white out at the old barn, especially when team Canada is playing. Even watching on T.V I got goosebumps watching some of those games.
Click to expand...

yea I saw about a half dozen games taht year. It was fantastic to watch that live.

New Years eve was Canada vs. US. a whole group of us went to start off the night. We had a blast!!!!
 
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The NHLPA's side

Excerpts from Goodenow's speech


Canadian Press



12/14/2004

TORONTO (CP) - Excerpts from NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow's statement to the media Tuesday:



Last week the players made a major proposal to achieve a negotiated deal with the league. The proposal included an immediate 24 per cent rollback on all existing contracts as well as other significant concessions for the owners and real revenue sharing.



Our proposal was not based on a percentage of revenues, it never has been. The league presented its response today. They rejected our proposal without engaging in really in any negotiation of its terms...



Their projections, I would suggest to you, are wildly unreliable, using an assortment of mostly made-up numbers in a variety of different time periods. I can tell you that these projections are completely useless and phony.



For example, Gary insists that player compensation had gone up by 12 per cent a year and projected that unsigned players would receive increases of over 23 per cent in 2005-2006 under our proposed system.



The facts are different. Over the last five years, player compensation has actually gone up around seven per cent a year. And the real numbers over the last five years of this agreement have been 5.2 per cent, 5.8 per cent, 14.4, 9.0 and 2.2. As for revenues, the league's revenues have gone up almost nine per cent a year for the last five years on their own numbers, which understate their revenues. But the league used a plug number to assume they would only go up by three per cent a year in their made-up projections.



The NHL spent very little time in their proposal. They offered a club-by-club cap, just like the one they described to us back in July. Then the league proposed to eliminate salary arbitration, hammer ELS (entry level system) players harder and were kind enough to tell us how to restructure the rollback. Furthermore and importantly, they offered no real revenue sharing among the clubs.



In short, the league took what they liked from our proposal, made major changes and slapped a salary cap on top of it. Put simply, our proposal provides the basis for a negotiated agreement but the NHL's does not.
 
Owners side


Excerpts from Bettman's speech


Canadian Press



12/14/2004

TORONTO (CP) - Excerpts from NHL commissioner Gary Bettman's news conference Tuesday:



We studied the (Players' Association) proposal extensively and we discussed it with each of our 30 clubs. The unanimous conclusion was the union's proposal does not work. It is dramatic in its immediate, short-term impact, but is fatally flawed as a system going forward...



Clearly, the 24 per cent rollback is an essential agreement in the implementation of a new system - the union has admitted as much. However, the rollback is not, in and of itself, a new system...



If you accept everything the union says will result from their proposal, the players will receive 56.6 per cent of our revenues on Day 1 of a new agreement. To repeat, the players' proposal translates to 56.6 pe cent. We countered at 54 per cent . . . So if we cannot make an agreement with such a modest gap to bridge, it must be because the union does not believe that the system will reduce costs to the 56.6 per cent level and keep them there. And the result - perhaps the union's hope - will be the resumption of the inflationary spiral...





If the union does not come forward now, it proves that the union leadership knows full well that under the union's proposal, the fundamental failures of our current system will not change and we will be right back where we were in, at best, a couple of years...



The union's offer of the rollback was a great start. Now, let's get together and fix the system the right way...



We accepted the principle of the 24 per cent rollback - however, we restructured which players would give back, and how much they would give back, by proposing a graduated rollback scale...



Under our counter-proposal, any player making less than $800,000 would not see his salary diminished at all. Under our proposal, the reduction for a player making between $800,000 and $1.49 million would be 15 per cent. The reduction for a player making $1.5 million to $1.99 million would be 20 per cent. The reduction for a player making $2 million to $3.99 million would be the 24 per cent the union leadership offered. The reduction for a player making between $4 million and $4.99 million would be 30 per cent . . . And the reduction for a player making $5 million or more would be 35 per cent. 731 of our players - 91.8 pe cent - would be at or below the union's proposed 24 per cent...



The players' proposal to reduce current contracts is a big-time, significant and meaningful move... The union has agreed to in effect `reset the dial.' And for that we are most appreciative...



By its offer, the union finally has acknowledged the magnitude of our losses. Despite all of the Union's rhetoric to the contrary, the union has confirmed the accuracy of our financial reporting. There is no other rational explanation for a $269-million reduction on contracts for this season...



I will confirm something very important that we repeated to the union: We have not sought - and are not seeking now - the elimination of guaranteed contracts. That is a bogus issue...



We proposed to the union that we would agree to a structure so that the median salary could stay where it is ($800,000 in `03-'04 for players who played in the NHL)...



We also proposed increasing the minimum annual player salary to $300,000 (a 62.2 per cent increase), when the union only proposed an increase to $250,000...



We made a detailed system proposal - a `salary range' - which, based on last year's economics, would see team player costs between $38.6 million and $34.6 million...



Much like the one earlier proposal made by the union, the rest of this proposal simply modifies the current system, which we have stated many times needs a radical restructuring. The changes to the entry level system; arbitration, qualifying offers, and the use of a payroll or luxury tx will not create a healthy and viable league...



We demonstrated in hard numbers that if we accepted the union's proposal and framework, we would be back in the same position - best case - within two to three years...



We are certain that under the union's proposal, rapid inflation will begin immediately, the losses will begin to mount quickly and nothing will have changed for the future...



We accepted the union proposal on changes to the entry level system, with the proviso that all bonuses be eliminated. The bonuses - the so-called `model' - have created a construct for the circumvention of the entry level system. It is why the system has not worked as was originally intended...



The payroll tax proposal is meaningless, even under the projections made by the union. I do not need to tell you once again why we do not think luxury or payroll taxes work. We haven't changed our minds . . .



Look at the union's proposal on its face: No tax until $45 million. If very team went to $45 million, there would be no taxes paid and our player cost would be what they are now. With a $50-million payroll, a team would pay a $1-million tax - we could pay out 80 per cent of revenues, more than the 74 per cent under old CBA - without triggering more than a $1-million tax per team. That won't do anything...



Salary Arbitration is inflationary - very inflationary. This one is easy. We said it must be eliminated...



As to qualifying offers and the other proposals - they either do not provide meaningful relief or will need further discussion when we finally have a new system in which these elements will operate. They can all be discussed at a later point...



We also proposed liberalizing the requirement for unrestricted free agency, acknowledging that the 31-year-old age limit was negotiable downward...
 
There won't be any NHL hockey this season. :(

The only people I feel for in this situation are the businesses that require a hockey season in order to survive.
 
I've said it several times but it needs repeating. Anyone that goes back to watch NHL hockey when these pigs work this out is a fool.
 
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