help with PCT

[MegaDesel]

i'm running deca/sust and very confused on which pct is best. I have nolv. and clomid, is this what i should be running. And when is the best time to start each. I know this is a stupid question however all the reseach i do points in different directions and im lost at this point.

 

[bca21]

no nolva with deca and add hcg. Start pct 7-10 days after last shott. Run clomid and hcg for pct

 

[StRoNg_WoN]

It's kind of a trial and error thing... you gotta try one, and see what works best for you... for SURE start your PCT 21 days after your last Sustanon Shot...

It you don't have HCG... I would do:

21 days after: 300mg Clomid then 100mg for the rest of the week with 40mg Nolva
Week 2: 100mg clomid, and 20mg Nolva
Week 3: 100mg clomid, and 20mg Nolva
Week 4: 100mg clomid, and 20mg Nolva

While on PCT... the clomid might make you moody.. kinda like being on the rag for 3 - 4 weeks... lol... try to stick it out... force yourself to eat (cuz I don't EVER feel like eating on that shit...) and try not to let depression get to you (if you get it at all)...

You should be good to go...

If after 4 weeks, you still feel weird, weak, and not back to 'normal'... (nuts are still small etc...) then you might want to consider getting come HCG (10000ius should do it) and using 1000ius M/W/F for the first three weeks of your PCT... all the while using the other stuff listed up there...

Hope that helps a little...

 

[StRoNg_WoN]

Hmmm... I posted mine before reading the one up there... 7 - 10 days? Really... maybe I just have old school thinking...

Great.. MORE confusion....

 

[MegaDesel]

It's kind of a trial and error thing... you gotta try one, and see what works best for you... for SURE start your PCT 21 days after your last Sustanon Shot...

It you don't have HCG... I would do:

21 days after: 300mg Clomid then 100mg for the rest of the week with 40mg Nolva
Week 2: 100mg clomid, and 20mg Nolva
Week 3: 100mg clomid, and 20mg Nolva
Week 4: 100mg clomid, and 20mg Nolva

While on PCT... the clomid might make you moody.. kinda like being on the rag for 3 - 4 weeks... lol... try to stick it out... force yourself to eat (cuz I don't EVER feel like eating on that shit...) and try not to let depression get to you (if you get it at all)...

You should be good to go...

If after 4 weeks, you still feel weird, weak, and not back to 'normal'... (nuts are still small etc...) then you might want to consider getting come HCG (10000ius should do it) and using 1000ius M/W/F for the first three weeks of your PCT... all the while using the other stuff listed up there...

Hope that helps a little...

I can get whatever i need and money isnt an object so if you would recommend somthing please tell.

 

[Mr.X]

i'm running deca/sust and very confused on which pct is best. I have nolv. and clomid, is this what i should be running. And when is the best time to start each. I know this is a stupid question however all the reseach i do points in different directions and im lost at this point.

Start your PCT 2 weeks after your last shot.

HCG 500IUs ED for 10 days

week 1-2: .25mgs arimidex ED
week 3-4: .25mgs arimidex EOD
week 1: 200mgs clomid ED
week 2: 100mgs clomid ED + 25mgs nolva ED
week 3: 50mgs clomid ED + 25mgs nolva ED
week 4: 50mgs clomid ED + 12.5mgs nolva ED

There is also aromasin, nolva and HCG for PCT
http://www.isteroids.com/steroids/Aromasin-Nolvadex PCT.html

Try my layout, should work well for you. This PCT would change +/- depending on your cycle. So post the cycle here.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

there is no evidence that nolva and clomid stacked together is more effective. And actually increased likelyhood of sides. Pick one or the other.

reccomend aromasin or AIFM, with low dose HCG (200-300iu E4d or e3d) and Clomid (since you are running DECA and nolva upregulates the PgR- clomid does not)

 

[Mr.X]

Try it for your PCT, you'll get all the evidence you need. Studies don't mean a thing - it's trying the products that matter. I've ran both myself and have ran them seperate and the results are obviously different. The same goes for clients I've trained.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

studies dont mean a thing? since the reccomendations, that you have been passed down and you have taken from others are based on those same studies. You might want to reconsider that statement...
those clomid dosages are based on studies, on hypogonadism and HPGA restoral.

as far as "real life", the number of people that have gotten post cycle gyno because of using nolva is quite significant. While its certain that not everyone will have that issue, clomid is proven in this respect and unlike nolva does not upregulate the PgR.

 

[Mr.X]

no clue what recommendations you're talking about...just get to the point next time, wasting my time with all this talking in circles.

I haven't worked with one person who got gyno PCT from nolva lol, but heck what do I know. Clomid and nolva works great for PCT, much better then clomid alone...if you actually used it for PCT you woudln't be making this argument.

p.s. none of the dosages I give are based on "studies", I derive my information from real world exprience, not some pubmed bullshit study done by a 150lbs. skinny kid in a lab.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

those dosages are old, passed down information, and yes they were originally based on study dosages... so yes you do base your dosages on the studies.

you seem to love studies when they favor a position that you have taken, and you discount them completely when they dont agree with your reccomendations.

and have used clomid and nolva together, its not any better and it caused a drop in libido. As it has for many.

clomid may have emotional sides and odd acne side effects but if anything it increases libido, nolva on the other hand quite often suppresses it. Both in clincals and real life.

 

[mikefear]

macro - 1
mr. x - 0

 

[StRoNg_WoN]

So much for not confusing the poor kid... lol

 

[Mr.X]

those dosages are old, passed down information, and yes they were originally based on study dosages... so yes you do base your dosages on the studies..

wrong; I base my dosages on trial and error...I've tried different dosages and have clients who came back reporting better results at better (higher/lower) dosages.

you seem to love studies when they favor a position that you have taken, and you discount them completely when they dont agree with your reccomendations.

wrong...I don't spend my time searching pubmed studies because I lack real world experience. I just tell it how it is because that's reality, and I have real world experience to back it up - pudmed and medline studies are not reality. most studies are full of lies and fake information.

see my view on studies
http://www.forums.isteroids.com/ana...23284-important-studies-false-misleading.html

and have used clomid and nolva together, its not any better and it caused a drop in libido. As it has for many..

clomid may have emotional sides and odd acne side effects but if anything it increases libido, nolva on the other hand quite often suppresses it. Both in clincals and real life

where did you get this nolva lowers libido idea? let me guess, read it in a study? lol , I have 2 clients right now doing nolva/clomid/arimidex PCT without a problem. I myself have never, in many years, had libido problems because of nolvadex - so don't spread this BS.

PCT you're going to have LOWER libido to begin with, so playing it off toward nolva is ludicrous. I'm sure some people will have more sides then others with nolva, that's a given; just like some guys cry on clomid and others don't have any sides at all.

I take all your comments with a grain of salt because 99% of the information you put out is based on a study you read - you lack the real world exprience to back up what you say. I'm pretty tired of going back and forth with this almost every other day. Personally, I could care less if you make claims that everything but a 'certain product' being pushed here lowers libido, but when you start spreading lies based on some BS study - things have gone too far.

Just like your "pr upgregulation", you read a handful of studies and now you're an expert at telling people not to use nolvadex lol . I've been using nolvadex for years without a problem, all of a sudden you're making it sound like the worst product ever.

To people reading this, take it all with a grain of salt - make your own decisions; don't believe all these BS studies, I sure as hell don't.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

stop trying to imply that you have more experience with AAS and associated compounds. You dont.

tired of your stupid rants about studies. Most often the reason that studies are sought out is to explain why people are having issues. Know plenty of people that have had libido issues with nolva, clomid on the other hand typically increases libido. surprise that is also reflected in the literature.

get off your rickety chinese high horse.

 

[Mr.X]

stop trying to imply that you have more experience with AAS and associated compounds. You dont..

lol, I didn't know this was a competition to show off on the internet how much one of us knows about steroids? whoa, don't worry, I don't need to hype up my internet persona to fulfill gaps and self esteem issues in real life.

Just to make you happy, macrophage69alpha knows more about steroids then Mr.X - that should make you feel much better

get off your rickety chinese high horse.

we make most of the wooden horses in the world...and you car brakes too would be hard to say it's rickety. P.S. we also make great dim sum!

I'm sure you'll go complain to have my post deleted now

 

[macrophage69alpha]

when did this become about your self esteem issues?

funny how you try to divert attention from the fact that you are trying to support your argument based on your experience, while implying that there is a lack in mine.

that was rectified, by reminding you that it was not the case.

please dont try to play games, its tiring.

 

[medrep]

for what it's worth, there are good studies and bad studies, i use them in sales every day. you have to learn to read between the lines. a huge number of them are financed by grants from a manufacturer, or their competitors. what is the "N" # of subjects in the study, is it clinically significant? are they all from the same MD on a 'payroll'? Is the clinical outcome significant? are all variables and constants fair? just a thought

 

[Mr.X]

when did this become about your self esteem issues?

funny how you try to divert attention from the fact that you are trying to support your argument based on your experience, while implying that there is a lack in mine.

that was rectified, by reminding you that it was not the case.

please dont try to play games, its tiring.

LOL, you tried to make this about me again, instead of about you trying to battle over who has more "steroid" knowledge on the internet.

stop trying to imply that you have more experience with AAS and associated compounds. You dont..

It's alright, I don't need to build and hype my internet persona macro, you can go ahead and be the king of steroid knowledge on the internet LOL I'll go live my real life.

You're right this is tiring, you're starting to bore me with this conversation going in circles.

 

[Mr.X]

for what it's worth, there are good studies and bad studies, i use them in sales every day. you have to learn to read between the lines. a huge number of them are financed by grants from a manufacturer, or their competitors. what is the "N" # of subjects in the study, is it clinically significant? are they all from the same MD on a 'payroll'? Is the clinical outcome significant? are all variables and constants fair? just a thought

medrep, I'll tell you something bro...after I saw guys MAKING up #s on studies to get grant money, I was shocked. That was all I needed to see; I saw studies for what they are - mostly misleading and false. As you put it, financially tied.

You're right, reading between the lines is very important.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

It's alright, I don't need to build and hype my internet persona macro, you can go ahead and be the king of steroid knowledge on the internet LOL I'll go live my real life.

see once again, trying to avoid the actual issues and make condescending (as well as erroneous remarks) in an effort to discredit legitimate arguments.

it bores you because you lack the basic understanding of the topic. Just because you can parrot other people and post up slight variations of of long standing PCT regimens, does not mean that you understand them. If you did there could be a meaningful discussion instead of your spurious personal attacks.

 

[Mr.X]

see once again, trying to avoid the actual issues and make condescending (as well as erroneous remarks) in an effort to discredit legitimate arguments..

I already responded to the actual issue, check page 1.

it bores you because you lack the basic understanding of the topic. .

I'm not the internet king of steroid knowledge, that's probably the reason

Just because you can parrot other people and post up slight variations of of long standing PCT regimens, does not mean that you understand them. If you did there could be a meaningful discussion instead of your spurious personal attacks.

There are no personal attacks macro. I was just stating the obvious about internet personas and virtual realities people make for themselves.

Sometimes I just ignore threads because I get tired of your circular arguments. Your lack of real world experience is tiring. I'll say this the last time, studies are full of BS. I don't want to have a conversation based on some MD studies done by a guy faking #s for a research grant. Just not my way of doing things.


here you go
http://www.forums.isteroids.com/ana...23284-important-studies-false-misleading.html

I'm really tired of repeating myself, so let's close this issue already.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

once again, same lame ass argument.

Have no idea what your actual experience is, and really dont care. actually have extensive experience with the compounds, willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on that matter.

the opinions and arguments made are based on both experience and science. If thats too difficult for you to understand or accept, feel sorry for you.

 

[Mr.X]

once again, same lame ass argument.

Have no idea what your actual experience is, and really dont care. actually have extensive experience with the compounds, willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on that matter.

the opinions and arguments made are based on both experience and science. If thats too difficult for you to understand or accept, feel sorry for you.

ok, ok, you're right, I'm wrong...I resign my virtual-internet-persona 'steroid king' crown to you but seriously, now you see why I don't respond to most of your arguments - I get very tired of these nonsense circular arguments.

I need to lay down, then hit the gym - you can post something amusing back so when I get home I have something fun to read. don't worry, I wont ride my rickety chinese high horse to the gym - damn thing is in the shop being fixed up.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

same old shit. (just so you have something to read)