Help with a SUST only cycle for a 6'3", 200 lb newbie... Please HELP

[robigd]

Hello all, I am new to this board. I have been doing a lot of research, reading other boards, etc... but this website seemed to have the most knowledgable people, therefore I joined...

Anyway, my stats are 24 years old, 6'3", 200 pounds, about 15% body fat. I have researched, and I am interested in doing a sust only cycle. This will be my first cycle. My goals are to gain and keep about 20 pounds. I read some places that a 10 week cycle of using only 250ml a week would be sufficient for a newbie, but other places laugh at that cycle saying you should at least be doing 500ml a week if you want to see any gains.

Basically, my question is... What kind of cycle (and post cycle) with sust should I be doing to achieve my goals? And I also see 90% of the people recommend jump starting your cycle with dbol.. but I am not interested in doing that. I can wait 4 weeks to start seeing results.

Thanks in advance for your help!!!

 

[Citruscide]

My first cycle

250mg sust + 200mg Deca 1 injection a week for 8 weeks

15lb gain

C-ditty

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

You're a fairly large individual,so I will kind of go between the two here and say 250mgs every 5th day for 8-9 weeks.Have nolvadex on hand before you begin and clomid for post cycle.Take in 2 grams per lb of bodyweight daily in protein from start to finish and you should do very well.

 

[drgoodbody]

I saw little...

to no gains off of a cycle of 250mg of Sust every 5 days. I personally have found that I make little visible differences with less than 500mg of test per week. My advice is to try out the 250mg per week for 4 weeks (and this should be long enough for the sust to "kick-in") and if you aren't seeing/feeling anything substantial, up the dose to 500mg EW.

Good luck,

DrG

 

[robigd]

drgoodbody,

What are your stats, and was this your first cycle? Would it make a difference with it being my first cycle?

 

[drgoodbody]

well...

At that time it was my first cycle of injectibles, but my second cycle overall. I had done one mini-cycle before it of topical tren along with Anadrol. Got about 8 lbs off that one.

At the time of my sust cycle (karachi sust to be exact), I was 5'9" about 178lbs, 12%BF. Today, I'm still 5'9" , but am about 202lbs, 8.5%BF. Oh and I'm on my 5th cycle currently (on since December 9, 2002) and it is a cutting cycle (Test prop, tren, EQ, winstrol - all injectible).

hope that helps,

DrG

PS: yes, since it is your first cycle your gains will be better, in theory, if the amount of gear is sufficient.

 

[robigd]

sust_cycle.jpg

HUCKLEBERRY,

So, the cycle would look like this? (Please see attached Image)

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Re: sust_cycle.jpg

HUCKLEBERRY,

So, the cycle would look like this? (Please see attached Image)

Yep,that's the ticket!

 

[Juice Authority]

Since no one else suggested it I'll throw in my opinion here...

I'd run at least 500-600mg's of a single ester like Enan for 10 weeks along with 40-50 mg's of D-bol ED for the first 4 weeks.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Listen to Dial Tone on this one. Too many people on ths board are anxious to make suggestions far beyond what is needed or necessary, Why? Well, they like steroids! But steroids should be an aid to bodybuilding, not the reason for it.

First of all, at 15% bf it sounds like you need to lean out a little. Why do you want to bulk up? That's what sus will do, you know. And you need to eat a lot for it to work well. Can you afford to do that?

Stick around awile. You're going to find a lot of diversity of opinions.

 

[robigd]

Thanks for the replies.... I can already see that everyone has their opinions, and they all vary greatly... maybe a little too greatly, lol.

Nelson, I plan on consuming 5 myoplex packets a day, and one real meal to keep me "regular". I know this is going to cost a lot, but I'm ready for it. I'm not really sure about the 15% body fat, cause I haven't done it in about 3 months, and have been busting my ass in the gym. Im pretty lean, and always have been.

Will a diet like this help me gain lean muscle mass while on the sust?

 

[robigd]

So, Dial_Tone, In your opinion, is 250 a week for 10 weeks sufficient for my goals, with a great diet?

 

[Juice Authority]

I just don't fucking understand the need for such high doses on a first cycle. one cc of test every 5 days, lots of protein, 5-6 days/week in the gym , bodyweight x 17 calories a day, should give him 15-20 lbs.
Anyone who STARTS OFF with 600mg+ a week will be out of the sport long before they reach even a state champ level physique.

DT, you obviously have been around for a while and have accomplished great things in the BB. That said, based on the robigd's goals I don't think 600mg's of Enan for 8-10 weeks coupled with 40-50mg's of D-bol for 4 weeks is unreasonable for someone that wants to gain 20 lbs and currently weighs 200. That's an average cycle. Right now I weigh 225 and my cycle looks like this:

12 Weeks:
600mg's Test Enan - per week
250mg's Test Prop - per week
400mg's of Equi - per week
700mg's of Tren - per week
100mg's of IP winn- ED
4IU's of HGH Someject 5 days on/2days off

I was going to drop the winny and go with D-bol. I start on week 4 taking 50mg's of D-bol ED for 6 weeks.

 

[Juice Authority]

It's unreasonable for a FIRST cycle, especially considering he's only looking for 20lbs... a modest and easily attainable goal. Each successive cycle he will need more and more juice to get the same gains as previous cycles. 600/mg now becomes 800mg/week next time, and 1,000mg/week after that. There's a finite amount of juice your body can process in your lifetime.
Consider the calorie analogy. Let's say you need 3,000 calories daily for maintenance and now want to cut for a show. Do yo immediately go to 1,600 calories daily? No, you cut the minimum amt of calories that it takes to make progress, so you ALWAYS have somewhere to go when progress stagnates.
After 25 yrs of lifting I can say I've seen the future and the tortoise wins this race.
Dude, you're doing all that each week? ouchie.

I can;t argue your point since my first cycle resembled what you're suggesting. I ran Sust 250 redijects once a week for eight weeks. On weeks 4 & 5 I ran 500mg's of Sust 250.

This current cycle was well thought out and researched. I'll be running a lose dose of Nolva (10mg's ED) for gyno and Liquidex throughout to keep down the water retention. I'll also be taking 1000iu's of HCG every two weeks to keep my nuts from atrophying. Clomid post-cycle.

 

[Juice Authority]

What would you suggest then given the current cycle?

 

[Juice Authority]

I'm currently 225 at about 10-11%BF. The goal is to get up to 250 @ 9%BF. I've done about 15 or more cycles.

 

[Aussie Juga naught]

Thanks for the replies.... I can already see that everyone has their opinions, and they all vary greatly... maybe a little too greatly, lol.

Nelson,I plan on consuming 5 myoplex packets a day, and one real meal to keep me "regular". I know this is going to cost a lot, but I'm ready for it. I'm not really sure about the 15% body fat, cause I haven't done it in about 3 months, and have been busting my ass in the gym. Im pretty lean, and always have been.

Will a diet like this help me gain lean muscle mass while on the sust?

Man seriously why the fuck would you do that? Real Food is 100 times better than that crap!

 

[Juice Authority]

That's a big cycle you've got there but you're at the point where you need 3-4 things at once to shock some growth.
I would definitely drop the winny if you're going for growth. people say they get strength from winny but I can't see that. I don't like the idea of two tests at once unless it's Sust.
I would think the enanthate, tren, dbol ought to be enough. I don't have experience with GH so no call there.

I'm with you on the winny. I'll be dropping the winny week 4 and substituting D-bol. The GH will help open the receptors and lean out. Other than that GH is overpriced for what you get out of it. The Enan and Prop are mixed together. There's a relatively new lab called Supra labs. They make a product called Supra 425 (300mg test Enanthate/125mg test prop)20ml. The Prop will help kickstart the cycle since the Enan takes 4 weeks to kick in.

 

[Juice Authority]

I'm doing all short cycles this year, nothing over 3 weeks. Frontload Sust then fina/dbol for 3 weeks

Interesting...I've been hearing more and more about these 2-3 week cycles. how's that been working for you? What's the theory behind it? 3 weeks on - 3 weeks off?

 

[Juice Authority]

Let me know how that goes. That could be a much better approach but i don't have enough info/feedback on that yet to know either way.

 

[Nelson Montana]

First of all, nobody gains 20 pounds of muscle from a single cycle and keeps it. Nobody.

It's amazing how after all this time, so few people realize this.

 

[robigd]

Nelson,

Do you disagree with eating a lot of myoplex, and MRP's while on a cycle? I would have thought it would give you much cleaner gains than if you ate at Burger King every day.

 

[granby140]

ur diet is key. If its in good order ur results should eb also

 

[Lift Chief]

Nelson,

Do you disagree with eating a lot of myoplex, and MRP's while on a cycle? I would have thought it would give you much cleaner gains than if you ate at Burger King every day.

How about instead of eating Burger King everyday you eat some chicken/rice; lean beef/potato; fish/yams... whatever meals. Just eat healthy food- that is better than mrps anyday... and much better than burger king

 

[trinidad]

My first cycle was sust 250 with 300 mgs. deca for 8 weeks. I gained 10 lbs. and began to loose it before I even started the clomid. 6' 01" went from 220 lbs. to 230 lbs. then down to 218 lbs. I didn't eat the way I should have because I expected the roids to do all of the work for me. My mistake, but I learned from it. I went from 218 lbs. to around 245 lbs. for my next cycle of cyp/eq over 12 weeks. That ended last July and I am currently at 238 lbs. I don't really see the point in the dbol since that just seems to be impatience more than anything. I'd say to go with the sust 250 every 5 days like Huck said and expect 8-10 lbs. If you gain more than that, you won't be disappointed. If you set your sights on 20 lbs. and either don't reach that, or don't keep it, you might end up getting frustrated and over doing it for your next cycle to compensate for it. It might take you 2 or 3 cycles to hit 20 lbs., or you might be fortunate and hit it on just 1. Be patient.....eat, sleep, train properly... and look at the sust as a supplement, not the solution.
Good Luck! Keep us posted!

 

[Juice Authority]

3 on/4 off for 6 months
2 on/4 off for 6 months.

less shutdown & quicker recovery so you continue to grow between cycles. healthier too. first time trying it this way; too early to tell.

DT, won't 2-3 weeks cycles still shut down your natural production of testosterone?

 

[Juice Authority]

Bump for feedback..

 

[Juice Authority]

Yes, it will but I believe there are "degrees" of shutdown. I relate it to a person's chances of coming out of a coma decreasing the longer they're in it. There may/may not be any logic behind it but I like the way it sounds. I believe my testosterone levels will rebound quicker from a 3 week cycle than they will from a 10 week cycle. The faster my hormone levels recover the greater chance I have of hanging on to whatever gains i've made.
I'm an "everything in moderation" believer in other aspects of life so my AS methods mirror this philosophy. I've never bought the "one is good, 4 must be better" thought process.

Ill agree that there are different "shades" of HPTA insult. But tren begins to inhibit natural T production within hours, not days. You may recover more quickly from a short cycle, but your endogenous T production will still be nill at the time of cessation.

I still believe that longer cycles with longer layoffs are generally more productive. You may very well be an exception.

BTW, I agree with you when you take lipid profiles into consideration.

 

[Lift Chief]

Ill agree that there are different "shades" of HPTA insult. But tren begins to inhibit natural T production within hours, not days. You may recover more quickly from a short cycle, but your endogenous T production will still be nill at the time of cessation.

I still believe that longer cycles with longer layoffs are generally more productive. You may very well be an exception.

BTW, I agree with you when you take lipid profiles into consideration.

The idea is that deeper stages of inhibition start at week 2.5-3. So by keeping your cycle under that you bounce back faster.
Also avoid many sides.

 

[Dirty Workout]

I just finished my first cycle, where I used sust and dbol. I took the route of starting with 250mgs/week and seeing how I felt after 4 weeks. I wasnt really feeling it strong but strong enough to make moderate gains. Went from 180 to 189 in first 4 weeks. I upped dosage to 2 shots a week and felt this would be better. I peaked at 198 but I prob would have reached my goal of 200 if the last three shots I took at end were not fake. I suggest starting with 250 and see how your body reacts

 

[robigd]

Dirty Workout,

So, you gained about 20 pounds off of this cycle just doing 1CC a week? When you upped the shots to 2 shots a week, were you doing them every 5 days like people are recommending in this post?

 

[Tricepratus]

Because is your first cycle and only want to do a Sust cycle I think that you will do it rigth with 500 mg /weekk, and for you weigth, for 8 or 10 weeks. You dont need too much gear, that is your firts cycle. Have in hand Nolv.
For post cycle HCG and clomid are a must to avoid the "crahs" and lost the gains
My first cycle was only 250 mg of Sust too, I weigthed less than you, and I almost gained 15 pounds.
However I didnt use HCG and Clomid and almost lost all gains

 

[Nelson Montana]

Not taking HCG or Clomid had nothing to do with it. Half of that weight gained was water.

 

[mysteri_enormus]

my first was 1cc sust (organon) for 8 weeks......with clomid for post cycle......that is all i needed with great results.....but everyone is different.........

 

[robigd]

Ok.. I'm pretty much looking at an 8 week cycle of sust, and was wondering what the significant difference would be between 1CC every 5 days, or 1CC every week. Obviously, there are 2 more CC's involved in the every 5 days cycle, but I was wondering what the difference would be?

Thanks!

 

[Johnny Cut]

and to take advantage of the prop ester

 

[babbabuee]

I'm getting ready to start my first cycle of sust (every 4 or 5 days, still haven't decided) with 25mg dbol ed first 4 weeks. I've got nolva and clomid on hand, do I need HCG?

 

[robigd]

Dial Tone and Johnny Cut,

Do you think its worth getting the extra 2 CC's, and doing it every 5 days for 8 weeks, or just doing what I currently have (10CC's) every 5 days for 7 weeks, or even 1CC per week for 10 weeks?

Thanks!

 

[pin cuishon]

my first cycle was just 10 shots of 250mgs of russian sust every 5th day. i saw like 17lbs of gain, and kept at least 12. take it slow, you can always go back for more, but you cant take the shit back out of you

 

[Debaser]

6'3"
200 lbs
15% BF

And now you're going to use steroids? I'm 6'1" 212 12% and not even close to tapping out my potential.

I can't believe you're serious. You could naturally put on AT LEAST 50 more pounds. People need to learn not to be so damn impatient. What's your training like? Diet? If you're looking for gear to solve all your problems then you're looking in the wrong place.

 

[pin cuishon]

buddy, its like this. YOUR BODY JUST DOESNT NEED THAT MUCH TEST THIS EARLY. its unesassary. now, im not the one to talk, or sound hypocritical, cuz im 18 living in a 25 yr olds body. but i know this, and i regulate my dosage accordingly. i know that i dont need anything higher than like 250-500 (tops) a week to grow, so i dont use anymore. my body is growing reasonably on its own, and all i need is a LITTLE BIT.

BTW, no matter where im reading, it always seems that dial_tone has the funniest, and oddly the most logical, responses...good for you DT

 

[Juice Authority]

I'm trying to cut back....I'm starting to sound like my grandfather with the "back in my day" shit and it's scaring me.

Hey Bro, your advise is sound and you always have the patience and courtsey to explain your position on something regardless how stupid the question might be. I think that takes shows a lot of character and I appreciate it.