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help me work on my power clean form

P

petpre61

New member
hi everybody!

I would like you to help me on my power clean form. These videos are on another board as well but I thought it might be a good idea to hear some other thoughts too.

my history on olympic lifting:
for the last few years I pretty much taught myself the snatch and clean. last summer I acutally joined a olympic lifting team and it went really well until my coach quit on the team and I couldnt go there anymore. Unfortunately there is no other olympic lifitng center around - so I could either give it up or find a different solution - the internet, training boards and rapidshare :)

9.6
http://rapidshare.de/files/22652426/pc_schraeg_vorne_oben_1_.AVI.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/22652506/pc_schraeg_vorne_oben__2_.AVI.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/22652572/pc_schraeg_von_vorne__3_.AVI.html

these were my first videos. based on them a veteran bodybuilder advised me to work on my drive. maybe you can see a little progression in the next two work outs.

12.6 with 72,5kg
http://rapidshare.de/files/22863709/pc2.AVI.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/22863613/pullsXupc.AVI.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/22863084/von_der_seite.AVI.html

14.6 with 77,5kg
http://rapidshare.de/files/23051284/2x77_5_fehlversuche.AVI.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/23051354/2x_77_5_felhversuche.AVI.html

i couldnt catch anything. but I felt pretty worn out at the beginning of lifting today, so I guess I wasnt at my best...


some details that might be helpful:
right now I am running bill starr's 5x5 dual factor as suggested on this board.

mo
squat
bench (DE 8x3)
row
sit ups

wed
box squat (DE 8x2)
dead
dips
chin ups
sit ups

fri
squat
bench
row
sit ups

I do the power clean before I start with the regular work out and usually do a few doubles or trippels with almost no weight and then I do 5x2/3 or whatever.
I am only in my second week and I think it is kind of hard to do the power cleans on wednesday, then DE box squats and then the deadlift. maybe anyone has some advice what to do? maybe powersnatches as an alternative so I dont have to go as heavy?

PRs 1x1 are:
squat ATG 130kg (290lbs)
bench 100kg (225lbs)
deadlift 160kg (355lbs)

other work outs during a week:
3x 6-10km at 5min/km or 45-60min at 170W on a stationary bike

2x interval sprints
e.g.: this monday I did 3x 1min at 315W and 115RPM 2 min break between intervals
3x 30s at 315W and 115RPM 1 min break
3x 15s at 315W and 115RPM 30s break

1x 20-30 min at 4:20/km or 220-230W at 80RPM



I guess this is quite a read but I hope some guys or girls go through it, have a look at my ass sucking on the platform and give me some ideas what to work on. I would appreciate it.
 
From what I see, your pull is fine until the shrug part, which a 'good' form-wise, but way, way, WAY too slow and not explosive enough, then you just slowly flip the elbows around, you need to whip them as fast as humanly possibly as you violently pull yourself under the bar.

You have the mechanics down and you have the general movement pattern down, but you're not explosive enough on the final pull, and you too slow on the catch.....other than that, everything looked okay from a checklist standpoint, maybe somebody else could pick something out, but I would say more explosion to finish the pull at the top and WAY more speed.

Overall though, you've got the lift right, it is just a question of maybe seeing somebody perform if as explosive and as fast as it should be done to register.
 
BiggT said:
From what I see, your pull is fine until the shrug part, which a 'good' form-wise, but way, way, WAY too slow and not explosive enough, then you just slowly flip the elbows around, you need to whip them as fast as humanly possibly as you violently pull yourself under the bar.

You have the mechanics down and you have the general movement pattern down, but you're not explosive enough on the final pull, and you too slow on the catch.....other than that, everything looked okay from a checklist standpoint, maybe somebody else could pick something out, but I would say more explosion to finish the pull at the top and WAY more speed.

Overall though, you've got the lift right, it is just a question of maybe seeing somebody perform if as explosive and as fast as it should be done to register.
Click to expand...

thanks

I got this one to look at for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu4v-USn0DE&search=olympic lifting

or a dimas-gif - which I cant upload since it is too big
 
I don't know enough to be able to comment really, but they looked fine to my uncritical eye!

Those bumpers are incredibly quiet. What kind are they and what do you have as a platform?
 
damn.. i can only download thru radpic share like once every hour.. could someone post it thru youtube or something?
 
biggt is right, this is what I was told too. I am just not explosive enough. I think I explode way too early (and dont have enough power at the end), pull with my arms too early, and it takes me forever to be in a catching position. anyway, I hope I can work on it - right now I got 130,5kg of olympic lifting equipment at home and one day I want to pull it to my knee caps explode upwards, extend ankles, knees and hips shrug vigoursly and catch the whole darn thing on my shoulders :king: (I will post a video :p )

the stuff I am using are just regular full bumper plates (the brand name is Schnell) with a Ligo barbell. the platform is made of some rubber material (kinda like the stuff on tracks for track and field) and 2.5 inches thick. it is used underneath monkey bars for example or on balconys (thats how I found them on the internet - in German fallschutzmatten and I guess falling safety mats in English)

do you uhm... yatube?

me at about 135lbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki1zFn4afHM

me at 72,5kg missed it twice and caught it twice (12.6.2006 or 6/12/06
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ylmqswMQaU

met at 77,5kg missed all of them :worried:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5MvAR21ihg
 
Work on explosion and keeping the bar close to your thigh's and chest. Get some kind of pole (like a long broom handle) and stand it upright just slightly in front of you and then proceed to do cleans without touching the pole with the bar. Or do it in front of a wall without touching the wall.
 
yeap.. solarclimax and biggt pretty much said it.. the reason u missed some of your attempts was lack of epxlosiveness.. i think you might be getting a lil bit too technicle when attempting reps.. it's like ur thinking in your head what you're supposed to do.. it must feel natural to u exploding up like that.. it worked for me.. i was doing it wrong for awhile but after further research and asking some great ppl here.. i finally got it down..

and damn i envy your rubber plates and platform.. wish i could just dump the bar like that in my gym..
 
carlsuen said:
yeap.. solarclimax and biggt pretty much said it.. the reason u missed some of your attempts was lack of epxlosiveness.. i think you might be getting a lil bit too technicle when attempting reps.. it's like ur thinking in your head what you're supposed to do.. it must feel natural to u exploding up like that.. it worked for me.. i was doing it wrong for awhile but after further research and asking some great ppl here.. i finally got it down..

and damn i envy your rubber plates and platform.. wish i could just dump the bar like that in my gym..
Click to expand...


i agree just work on explosive movement and 2 things you might could stregthen up: 1 your grip and 2nd your front squats
front squats looked on the ones you got but working at them may help,not to heavy tho!
rap your knee cause they do put alot of pressure on the front of them
i would know tore my ACL,MCL and meniscus, but not from the squats
sorry for babbling
 
carlsuen said:
yeap.. solarclimax and biggt pretty much said it.. the reason u missed some of your attempts was lack of epxlosiveness.. i think you might be getting a lil bit too technicle when attempting reps.. it's like ur thinking in your head what you're supposed to do.. it must feel natural to u exploding up like that.. it worked for me.. i was doing it wrong for awhile but after further research and asking some great ppl here.. i finally got it down..

and damn i envy your rubber plates and platform.. wish i could just dump the bar like that in my gym..
Click to expand...

this is so true. I am all like "explosive, explosive, explosive..." during the lift and I am still kind of thinking "okay, explosive - check, whats next? ah right pulling under, get the ellbows up and catching" ;)
I hope this is something that changes over the time

solarclimax said:
Work on explosion and keeping the bar close to your thigh's and chest. Get some kind of pole (like a long broom handle) and stand it upright just slightly in front of you and then proceed to do cleans without touching the pole with the bar. Or do it in front of a wall without touching the wall.
Click to expand...

this sounds kind of weird but I will give it a try. I dont think I am going to try it against the wall b/c when I screw it up and the barbell bounces of the wall it will knock me down.


young_gunz said:
i agree just work on explosive movement and 2 things you might could stregthen up: 1 your grip and 2nd your front squats
front squats looked on the ones you got but working at them may help,not to heavy tho!
rap your knee cause they do put alot of pressure on the front of them
i would know tore my ACL,MCL and meniscus, but not from the squats
sorry for babbling
Click to expand...

well "work on explosive movement" is kind of hard b/c I thought by doing cleans I will just work on explosive movement until somebody told me "your are not explosive". see? this is a diabolic circle.

while working on the front squat makes sense, how would working on my grip help me on my power cleans?

did you tear your acl mcl and meniscus b/c of olympic lifting? sorry to hear - thank god I never had anything torn anywhere in my body.


I think i did a pretty good job on my last work out, I had almost no trouble catching the 77,5kg and I even had a 82.5kg on my shoulders already but oh my I still dropped it...

77,5kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUZTQyn958Y

82,5kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX4sg7wHZrU


edit:
here are some more vids

82,5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF7btdWuYNE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLNigd7u53I

77,5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG3-rkh9fss
 
Last edited:
petpre61 said:
this sounds kind of weird but I will give it a try. I dont think I am going to try it against the wall b/c when I screw it up and the barbell bounces of the wall it will knock me down.
Click to expand...

Yea, it may seem like it's going a step to far but stuff like this can make a difference. I assumed that you train alone, wich is why i suggested improvising. In 1 of Rippetoe's books he says to put your hand in front of a trainee and tell them not to hit your hand with the bar.
 
so i saw your vids.. they still lacked alot of explosiveness.. but that's the hardest thing to generate from the hang.. from the hang, u gotta lower yourself, and use your feet to stomp your way up to a small jump, use your traps to shrug the bar REAL hard for it to travel high, and duck under it to catch it.. all these done in a single second..

u can only do cleans from the hang with only that much weight.. as your weights get heavier, you'll have to do them from the floor.. so as to generate max explosiveness to complete the lift..
 
carlsuen said:
so i saw your vids.. they still lacked alot of explosiveness.. but that's the hardest thing to generate from the hang.. from the hang, u gotta lower yourself, and use your feet to stomp your way up to a small jump, use your traps to shrug the bar REAL hard for it to travel high, and duck under it to catch it.. all these done in a single second..

u can only do cleans from the hang with only that much weight.. as your weights get heavier, you'll have to do them from the floor.. so as to generate max explosiveness to complete the lift..
Click to expand...

i thought doing the clean from the hang would me to concentrate on the explosive part. i understand that doing the pc from the floor will help to generate more power altogether however I more concerned that my timing is wrong and I start way too early... maybe I should even start from somewhere close to the power position, so I can train myself to be real exploisve where it counts the most - but I dont really know
I hope this makes sense.

today was the worst workout ever - on friday I almost got the 82,5kg and today I wasnt even close. I am pissed
 
i think you should try squatting down like you are going to try the movment. but....
put a penny or something with little weight on your shoulders. right below your neck.
squat down and see how far you can throw it off your back. I mean with all your might come off the floor and everything. do this a few times as a warm up every time before the lift. this will help give you a better understanding of the feeling of speed.

also becarful not to throw you feet out from underneath you. Also try dropping down in weight a little and just working on speed. and only thinking of speed..
 
First, find your strongest position, especially for explosiveness in the hang. After you found it, clean from the floor. That clean from the floor has to be slow, not explosive. The idea is just to get the bar from the ground up above your knee (contact the skin), into your best hang position, there starts the real power. Don´t bend you´re arms to pull. Pull with the hip and later, with the traps.
 
Extra_Strong said:
i think you should try squatting down like you are going to try the movment. but....
put a penny or something with little weight on your shoulders. right below your neck.
squat down and see how far you can throw it off your back. I mean with all your might come off the floor and everything. do this a few times as a warm up every time before the lift. this will help give you a better understanding of the feeling of speed.
Click to expand...
a penny, like a coin? I am not really sure where I am supposed to put it - at the end of the traps?
I will give it try for sure. thank you for the input. :)

also becarful not to throw you feet out from underneath you.
Click to expand...
what does "throw your feet out from underneath you" mean? no jumping while doing your formentioned exercise? or no jumping in general?

Also try dropping down in weight a little and just working on speed. and only thinking of speed..
Click to expand...

hmm, one thing I was told is that I need to work on the drive and I can only work on it when the weight is reasonably high b/c when the weight is low I can compensate the lack of drive.
since I am at 75-85kg right now do u think I should work with a weight which I can catch successfully? 72.5 is no problem 77.5 is a problem sometimes so maybe I should stay at the 77.5


Lesaman69 said:
First, find your strongest position, especially for explosiveness in the hang. After you found it, clean from the floor. That clean from the floor has to be slow, not explosive. The idea is just to get the bar from the ground up above your knee (contact the skin), into your best hang position, there starts the real power. Don´t bend you´re arms to pull. Pull with the hip and later, with the traps.
Click to expand...

I see. So my idea wasnt that bad after all, right? with the hang clean reps I can find out which position is best for me to generate power and once I figured it out I should go back to start from the floor right?
I know I bent my arms :worried:

are you German?
 
petpre61 said:
a penny, like a coin? I am not really sure where I am supposed to put it - at the end of the traps?
I will give it try for sure. thank you for the input. :)


what does "throw your feet out from underneath you" mean? no jumping while doing your formentioned exercise? or no jumping in general?



hmm, one thing I was told is that I need to work on the drive and I can only work on it when the weight is reasonably high b/c when the weight is low I can compensate the lack of drive.
since I am at 75-85kg right now do u think I should work with a weight which I can catch successfully? 72.5 is no problem 77.5 is a problem sometimes so maybe I should stay at the 77.5




I see. So my idea wasnt that bad after all, right? with the hang clean reps I can find out which position is best for me to generate power and once I figured it out I should go back to start from the floor right?
I know I bent my arms :worried:

are you German?
Click to expand...


u can pretty much put it anywhere on your shoulders the idea is just to get the feel. trying to throw your shoulders back as hard and fast as you can.
and for some reason this always seems to help.

and a lot of the time i have people do it and they throw with so much force when trying to through the object off there shoulders that they almost fall. so just giving you a warning.

after doing this a few time you should feel the speed. 1st just focusing on the distance of the object. then relizing how much speed you were able to produce just by leting your mind focus in a different way. focus less on the weight and more on how fast and powerful you are jerking.

and yes you should pick a weight that is light enough that you are not failing to complete the lift. and do it till it feels comfortable and you feel like you are doing it correctly. while using the lighter weight just try to do it faster like you are trying to beat your time everytime.

it is possible to give out the same amount of force doing light weight vs heavey. just make sure you are givingit all you can imagin jerkingit threw the roof. I would also suggest pushing your pelvis out forward more. good luck.
 
a few days have passed and I have been power cleaning every work out day.

this is a recent one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BsIUPBb80U

77.5kg maybe 78,25 b/c stupid me put a 1.25kg on one side without thinking simply because it was lying on the floor :worried:

anyway
I changed my first pull so now the bar is a lot closer to my body. I did the penny thing and tried to be explosive throughout my lifts.
I tried 80kg and I pulled it up to my throat (without dropping at all wtf?) but I could not get myself to catch it. then I was thinking upon what is going wrong and my conclusion is that my wrist felxibility is so poor that I pretty much need to let go all fingers except two (see the vid above). the higher the weight goes the unsafer my catching gets and I guess I am scared of getting injured.

well, then after doing oly squats for 5x5 I had 60kg I did a front squat first with my regular cleaning setup hands about 1.5 inches away from the smooth part of the bar and a second time hands closer to the smooth part. it felt a lot easier to hold onto the bar with the second set up. so I am going to give it a shot plus in my next cycle of 5x5 I will do front squats instead of regular squats so my wrists get more flexible.

edit:
from today 80kg:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR0tM1OAqsY

what do you guys think?
 
much, much better, you are accelerating the bar now. from what I can see, it's fairly straight and you are not swinging the bar.

from this point on, i think you need:

1) work on extending fully. you have another 2-3 inches of range that can equate to 10-20kg if you use it. consider doing either hang cleans or cleans from blocks. you can make blocks, don't buy them.

2) you need to aggresively drive underneath the bar. don't just float with your body loose under the bar as it is coming up. drive underneath to meet it with your chest out. if you let your body go soft as you dive under you will be unable to rack heavier weights because they'll crush you.

for now, think about extending fully (not back, but straight), and then jumping underneath to catch the bar. you finishing the second pull and then racking the bar should be lightning quick and aggressive.

hope that helps
 
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?14af377233.gif


I dont know if you can see this but do you see how far he drops down to catch the weight? that means he does not have to lift it as high.

I really think doing front squats will help you. also the weight should rest on your chest or clavical should be more the placment of your elbows that allow your hands to fo back. Just saying dont support the weight with your hands. It will be to much for your wrists.

so think about droping fast and catching the weight when you do the front squats i think it will help alot. also do them atf ass to floor!!!


look at how much your legs are bent when you catch the weight? you are not even parallel, so what if you worked on catching it at parallel or even lower. that alone would make the weight you are doing go way up.
 
Extra_Strong said:
this is a good example see how low he is when he catches it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUhDauOY-K8&search=olympic lifting
Click to expand...


yes this would take practice mostly cause your body is just not use to being down there. so it would start by lots of front squats good luck.


and practicing these babys would really help with the jerking speed. doing it will light weight to start. and you would probably need to lean to squat with you hands up over your head holding a bar. or something. would take some work but man oh man would it pay off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k1YzB-Si9g&search=olympic lifting
 
Extra_Strong said:
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?14af377233.gif


I dont know if you can see this but do you see how far he drops down to catch the weight? that means he does not have to lift it as high.

I really think doing front squats will help you. also the weight should rest on your chest or clavical should be more the placment of your elbows that allow your hands to fo back. Just saying dont support the weight with your hands. It will be to much for your wrists.

so think about droping fast and catching the weight when you do the front squats i think it will help alot. also do them atf ass to floor!!!


look at how much your legs are bent when you catch the weight? you are not even parallel, so what if you worked on catching it at parallel or even lower. that alone would make the weight you are doing go way up.
Click to expand...


but then it wouldnt be a power clean anymore. I talked to an oly lifting coach online and he suggested that since I am learning quickly I should go for the squat clean. however learning to do a proper squat clean takes a lot longer. furthermore it cant give me more of an athletic enhancement compared to the power clean.
if i had a good coach around my place i'd just do oly lifts only and learn the technique but I dont so I have to stick with the "easier" stuff.

http://media.putfile.com/1993-dimas
look at his power cleans - dimas does 100kg with no dropping under the bar at all ;)
 
the only time he does not squatdown low is just when he is using a ligher weight at least for him. the weight is not heavy for cleaning for him but is heavy for push pressing it up.

put most of the time he is still almost parallel.

just think it would help for increasing weight. maybe i am missing something with your goals.
 
Extra_Strong said:
the only time he does not squatdown low is just when he is using a ligher weight at least for him. the weight is not heavy for cleaning for him but is heavy for push pressing it up.

put most of the time he is still almost parallel.

just think it would help for increasing weight. maybe i am missing something with your goals.
Click to expand...

yeah you were right. it works a lot better with dropping lower
 
is it possible that I start my second pull to early? somewhere I read about being around midthigh is the best position...
 
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