Help Me Inform Educate Our Medical Professionals!!!!

[ArizonaFeeds]

I have a great doctor but she is a normal doctor and is not very educated on the latest sports medicine, supplements etc.. in fact I had to explain to her about creatine and how long has that been around now? I was asking her for nolvadex and clomid to finsih up cycle. She has NO problem discussing these sorts of things off the record. As long as she can legally provide a medical reason to state for the prescription, even vaguely, then she is open to discussing it.

I NEED a GOOD medical reference to site for her for the use of Nolvadex(tamoxifin) and Clomid (clomiphene) by a male. Possibly to increase libido, treat or prevent gyno, increase test production. But it needs to be a credible medical ref. Ideally a sports doc out there could help tremendously. If we can educate our doctors then we can maybe help take out all the negative stereotypes of our sport and it's various supplements both OTC and otherwise. Either way I walked out of there with a script for test until she can do the research and find more info. All she found in her books was that Nolvadex was used to treat female conditions primarily breast cancer. Clomid for infertility in woman etc... I was ALSO amazed to find that one of the test products that one can legally prescribe in this country is Methyl Test , one of the MOST toxic, no?
Go figure.

FDA idiots!!!

remember, this must be a credible medical ref for the use of these drugs in the U.S. in a male. Not just an explanation of what we all know they are helpfull with. I know that these drugs are not hard to come by by other means but this is a great way to educate and work with my doctor and open the eyes and minds of her Dr. friends and so on and so on.... If you have resources let me know and I will pm you my email also to send me a "hardcopy"

 

[genarr4]

EDIT -- Please do not post this. Thank U C-Ditty

 

[Citruscide]

Good idea AF -- I would like to help out with this too...

It's a long uphill battle, because it isn't only the medical community you must convince... but also the millions AND MILLIONS of people across the country.

I have talked to several recent med school grads and they are haughty know it alls who think they are the monkey's poo on medicine... alot like MOST attorneys are about law. -- it's hard to convince them, because they will just say "I have a medical degree, you don't" -- and the bias of the medical community toward AAS is insanely rediculous...

But I would like to help in any way that I could... I had a study on DNP that showed some positive results... do you want to use this??? LOL -- probably not... DNP isn't the best of topics to discuss... given recent events.

C-ditty

 

[Rio 2001]

I´ll post the one and only publhished reference on Clomiphene and HPTA recovery post AAS use, and it is a case report:Use of clomiphene citrate to reverse premature andropause secondary to steroid abuse.

Tan RS, Vasudevan D.

Department of Family and Community Medicine, University of Texas Health Sciences Center, Houston, Texas 77030, USA. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: To report a case of symptomatic hypogonadism induced by the abuse of multiple steroid preparations that was subsequently reversed by clomiphene. DESIGN: Case report. SETTING: University-affiliated andrology practice within family practice clinic. PATIENT(S): A 30-year-old male. INTERVENTION(S): Clomiphene citrate, 100-mg challenge for 5 days, followed by treatment at same dose for 2 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Clinical symptoms, androgen decline in aging male questionnaire, total T, FSH, LH. RESULT(S): Reversal of symptoms, normalization of T levels with LH surge, restoration of pituitary-gonadal axis. CONCLUSION(S): Clomiphene citrate is used typically in helping to restore fertility in females. This represents the first case report of the successful use of clomiphene to restore T levels and the pituitary-gonadal axis in a male patient. The axis was previously shut off with multiple anabolic steroid abuse.

 

[Rio 2001]

There are lots of studies on how effective tamoxifen is to raise LH and FSH levels.
I´ll post one that relates to sports and testosterone, but digging the medical search engines for " tamoxifen and male nad LH and FSH", or " Tamoxifen and male infertility" will get you a lot of references.Int J Sports Med. 1995 Aug;16(6):413-7. Related Articles, Links


Hypogonadism as a cause of recurrent muscle injury in a high level soccer player. A case report.

Naessens G, De Slypere JP, Dijs H, Driessens M.

Department of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, University Hospital Antwerp, Edegem, Belgium.

Hypogonadotropic hypogonadism is a well known entity in highly trained female athletes. In male sportsmen, resting testosterone levels may be lowered especially in well endurance trained athletes and during high intensity training periods, frequently in combination with excessive weight reduction. However, only few reports illustrate a clinical pathology related to this state. In this report, where we present a case of a high level soccer player with recurrent muscle injuries over several years, hypogonadism was caused by sports activity together with an impaired testicular function (cryptorchidy). Clinical findings included testicular maldevelopment, decreased libido, infertility and a high incidence of muscle strains and delayed post-exercise soreness in mainly eccentric exercised muscle groups. Laboratory findings showed abnormally lowered resting testosterone values, most prominent during training periods, and an unfavourable testosterone/cortisol ratio during recuperation after exercise. With respect to treatment of the problem, neither any form of physical therapy nor rehabilitation program could give long lasting benefit. Using tamoxifen, an anti-oestrogenic drug, which stimulates LH and FSH production, we not only observed normal physiological resting testosterone values and a restoration of the testosterone/cortisol ratio after exercise, but our patient also experienced a higher sexual drive, well being and a spectacular decrease in the muscle injury rate. Although this patient was not a highly endurance trained athlete, we assume that a chronic anabolic/catabolic hormone imbalance may be of greater clinical importance in sports activity based on eccentric and explosive muscle work.

 

[ArizonaFeeds]

I am really appreciating the input

I am going to cut and paste and forward some of those case studies and continue to search the web for some hardcore, textbook info. The great thing is that if I can show her the evidence then it becomes accepted at least by her and I am set in th futre as well.

 

[Sigmund Roid]

Most MD's don't have the time and the will to learn new things. They will cling to their knowledge from books from the 60's. They certainly do not like patients who come with articles to prove a point. You will simply be kicked out the office, no matter how (self) educated you are.

 

[ArizonaFeeds]

Ohhh you sound bitter

I walked out with a test cript instead so I am not as pesimistic as you Of course it was only adrogel but what the Hell. Hey if you combine andro gel with DMSO will you get more of the 50mg in ya. Or will the Isopropyl it is mixed with kill you I am really just using it to keep me from crashing too hard with out the clomid.

 

[alanchiras]

First of all, remind you doctor that she certainly prescribes drugs 'off label' for their side effects. Trazadone is described in the PDR for depression, but it's real world use is as a powerful sleep aid - if you actually took enough for the anti-depressant effects, you would be asleep 24 hours a day. So she should lighten up on the clomid. Also, even thought it was written specifically for PWA's, buy the latest version of 'Built to Survive', read it first and use post it's for the relevant sections, and then give her your copy to read. It should enlighten her about all sorts of uses of AS and Test. Thanks! Alan.

 

[JGIFFORD]

look out alanchiras