help from the mods....

[big calvin]

ok here's my problem....i use insulin cause iam diabetic..now when i do atkins i dont use insulin from advice that MR.X gave me....but when i do like body for life i do use insulin....now i dont know whats gonna give me better results...keto with no insulin or body for life with insulin.....couldnt i do atkins and only use insulin at night and of the fast time(humalog or R)? or should i just go with the healthy type eating?

thanks guys,
calvin

ohh, ps.
im gonna start a cycle of winny and a little t3. but i think the winny might increase my glucose levels so i think i might have to go with BFL and insulin....whats your thoughts?

 

[blood_drinker]

Bro:
You have to be careful with this. I would get your docs recommendation before starting any diets. Take my suggestion lightly, PLEASE. Keto diets must be used without insulin during the no carb fase, since that is the norm. There isnt any insulin supposed to be used with keto because insulin slows / stops lipolysis while its levels are spiked. When a normal person goes on a keto diet he will get a diabetics breath (keto breath) and he will not have any insulin present, just like diabetics. During a CKD, the carb up fase will refill your muscles with glycogen because insulin sensitivity will be greatly spiked due to the many carbs, but not for you. During the carbup fase, I would say use your insulin, so as to refill your muscles with glycogen thus allowing you to get the pumps you need in the gym. That is the logical explanation for your question. I am unsure of how long your insulin levels spike up to when you inject, so I wouldnt use a carb based diet - for maybe they will be spiked for too long thus not allowing proper lipolysis to occur - or enough of it.

BUT PLEASE, CONSULT A DOC BEFORE THIS.My suggestions can make sense, but take them lightly.

I did some research and look at what I got for you

From heartinfo
A low-carbohydrate, calorie-restricted diet can help people with type 2 diabetes get their blood sugar under control when standard dietary changes and drug treatment have failed, according to California researchers. At least in the short run, the diet may help patients avoid having to take insulin to control their disease. After 8 weeks on a diet with 25% of calories from carbohydrates, type 2 diabetics had a significant improvement in blood sugar levels compared to those seen with a diet with 55% of calories from carbohydrates, the authors report in the December issue of the Journal of the American College of Nutrition.

Of the 28 patients in the study, 9 were treated with a standard diet containing 55% carbohydrates, and 19 with sulfonylurea agents, but none of the subjects were able to achieve target glucose levels with those therapies, according to Dr. Lois Jovanovic and colleagues at Sansum Medical Research Foundation in Santa Barbara, California.

After 8 weeks on the 25% diet, the subjects had a drop in hemoglobin A1c, a marker for blood sugar control. When placed on the 55% carbohydrate diet for another 12 weeks, hemoglobin A1c increased, a marker of worsening blood sugar control.

Patients who had previously taken sulfonylurea drugs also lost weight while on the 25% diet, but the benefits of the diet were not dependent on this loss, according to the report.

The benefit of insulin treatment in type 2 diabetes is controversial and the data "suggest that dietary therapy may sustain remission for an interim and allow the reintroduction of oral hypoglycemic therapy in the event that low-carbohydrate diet therapy alone is not successful," the authors note.

The following comes from AGINFO, and it says you can eat a balanced diet with everything needed for a normal person fat loss diet (40-30-30) , including a post workout meal. Id recommend you take the insulin post workout to fuel your muscles with needed recovery nutrients.

Why Must Diabetics measure the amount of food they eat?

Foods must meet, but not exceed, the prescribed number of calories and amounts of protein, carbohydrates and fats. The amount of food prescribed will help to make sure that weight stays at normal levels and that blood sugar levels are controlled.

Most diabetic diets are made up of about 50% carbohydrates, 20% protein and 30% fat. The carbohydrates on a diabetic diet are primarily complex carbohydrates, including fruits, vegetables and whole grain breads and cereals. These complex carbohydrates in prescribed amounts are thought to produce relatively small changes in blood sugar levels.

Coming from HCRC.org

A ketogenic diet may or may not have side effects, depending on the individual person. It is certainly riskier for overweight individuals with medical problems such as heart disease, hypertension, kidney disease, and diabetes than it is for overweight people with no health problems.

In closing I think it is of prime importance to consult your doctor. We can all tell you different things and give you different theories, but you have to watch out. Also you have not given us enough info . FOr example, my grandma is a diabetic but also is obese and has cholesterol problems, thus a keto diet is not the answer for her. CONSULT YOUR DOCTOR.

Hope I helped bro. keep me posted

 

[big calvin]

thanks man...but i didnt really understand what u said...i was going to do aSKD...atleast for a while...

i didnt really mean high carbs but more like ....well.....50% protein, 40% carbs, 10% fat....

i drink alot of skim mlk as my meals inplace of MRP cause i can stick to it with ease......im about 460-470 lbs now and well starting over after a long layoff from training......

thanks blood drinker...any other quotes u can send me, would be greatlly aprciated(sp).....

 

[big calvin]

ohh and i do have a doctor thats i like but like i like know more about weights and "fat loss" then weight loss like he knows...u know what im talkin about....i found out i was diabetic about 5-6 months ago and didnt go to the doctor till about 1 month a go...he put me right away on insulin N at night 15IU...it wasnt working so i used some of my dad insulin(hes also diabetic) humalog 5-10iu before each meal and its way better control but still well over the norm....i inject 6 times a day of only humalog and sometimes L or N in the mornings just to stabilize over the day(or peaks or valleys)......

 

[blood_drinker]

Yeah I know those kinds of docs. I have no clue as to how you are treated. I have limited knowledge on diabetes, and have no idea how many times you inject and whats your limit. On a CKD, you would inject only during the carbup, while on a 40-30-30, you would inject 4-5 times a day, since there are 4-5 meals with carbs in them, in which a normal person would have an insulin spike. However, I dont know how to administer your insulin. For example, if you have a potato, and you want the insulin spike of a potato, how much insulin do you inject? (I probably sound completely clueless, but I have no idea how to administer your insulin!) What about post workout, where you would have 3tbsp of honey? Can a diabetic eat such foods? ....I doubt it .
Even if you could, how much insulin you inject post workout would differ as to how much you inject in the morning yada yada. With 6 meals a day it starts to get complicated. The solution, I think, is to go on a Cycling Ketogenic Diet. In which 5 days are no carbs, and the weekends are carbups. CKD is what I would do. No Insulin for the 5 days of the no carbfase, and insulin on the weekends. However, I am still to work out a solution for you during the weekends. I asked some bros over at the anabolic board some questions and I have not gotten any replies. Its a touchy subject.
Do I make sense?

 

[diamonddiceclay]

atkins should be good for a diabetic-if you have atkins books, read them for advice

 

[big calvin]

well heres the thing...almost anything i eat i have to inject...even like protein, no carbs and no fat jumps it about 50-60 points....a normal blood sugar us 70-80 fasting level...mines without insulin 300-350...if i use insulin 250(im working on lowering it)... a normal personal insulin shouldnt ever go over 140....so u can see im out of control.....i normally inject 5-10iu before i eat and sometimes 15 if its higher in caloires.....if i did atkins i cant use insulin cause of all the fat i would be eating....sence im just getting started with injecting(past 2-3 weeks i think) i want to get use to injecting i guess cause there really isnt a cure but i can get better control over it...thats the whole thing, i dont want to do something im not gonna be doing for life...if i do a diet i want it to be for life cause diabetes is for life...im pretty sure im gonna have to be on insulin for the rest of my life..i was in denile(sp) but now i just accepted it. im diabetic and need help.......ill wait for your info BD. thanks for all the help so far........im even thing ducking slim fast would do me some good.....

 

[blood_drinker]

Right now, my thoughts are that you definetely cannot give up carbs for a lifetime. Also, keto does not seem to be the best alternative due to the high fat - with your weight that does not seem like the best option.
I have a lot things going through my head about this topic, but Ill tell you what: I am going to try to talk to a professional nutricionist I know and get her to give me her insights on this topic.

Youll get my reply soon enough

 

[big calvin]

thanks man. your being a huge help.....

 

[Onenameleft]

Diamond, reread Atkins' book. He says he believes his diet to be beneficial for type 2 diabetics. If you are an insulin-dependent diabetic, then I wouldn't suggest any type of ketogenic diet for you. Insulin release and the feedback mechanisms between glucose and ketones are key to the ketogenic diet being safe. If your body can't create insulin, then you have no means to stop the creation of ketones, and you can experience ketoacidosis. For insulin-dependent diabetics proper diet along with insulin supplementation is very important to long term health. Please be very careful doing anything that drastically changes your blood glucose levels. You need to better get your diabetes under control. You need to figure out how to time your injections and meals so that your glood glucose is always between 80-120. Go find a doctor that specializes in the treatment of diabetes, and please be safe. Ketogenic diets are not indicated for Type 1 (insulin-dependent) diabetics.