HCG Post Cycle- Who Uses It???

[THE PROTOTYPE2000]

Who uses HCG post cycle to keep their gains? I know the majority of the fellas uses on board use Clomid only post cycle with good success. I also noticed alot of the older bodybuilders still use HCG with Nolvadex/Clomid. I'm trying to find out which method is better. So, what do you think? Clomid only?? Or HCG and Clomid/Nolvadex??

 

[Spectre]

You kinda have to figure out what works for you. You can keep your bases covered by using HCG and clomid (not at the same time). It's cheap so why not.

With that being said HCG works for me and clomid doesn't do one damn thing. I am sure it's different for others.

 

[2XL]

HCG is intended to help reverse the testicular atrophy which comes about from long or overly frequent cycles.

If your cycle is sufficiently short your testicles will not appreciably atrophy and HCG will do you no good. What's more, HCG use carries some risk, so you shouldn't take it unless you need to.

Clomid/Nolvadex operate totally differently and act to get your test production back quicker than otherwise by masking some of the inhibitory effects of testosterone.

If you're on a cycle of any strength and length, you probably would be well served by clomid or nolvadex (I prefer nolva post cycle).

If you on much stronger/longer, and suspect atrophy, then consider HCG. clomid/nolva must always we taken alongside HCG.

 

[THE PROTOTYPE2000]

Up for more opinions!!!

 

[Enock]

I'm on it now for the first time, just went through 5,000 spread over the past week onto week #2.

 

[Shoot Me Up]

i agree that HCG should be used but not with clomid.. the way I woudl do it is take the HCG at 500IU ED for 10 days then wait 4 days and start clomid therapy...Also take nolvs/liquidex and bromo. thats what i woudl do

 

[dissto]

i tried for the fist time on my last cycle, did 500iu ED for 10 days with liquidex, then started clomid, clen and anavar. i cant afford to lost ANY gains i got from my last cycle.

 

[lawnsaver]

I have changed my view on HCG. I dont wait for the atrophy to set in anymore. I take 500ius 2 times a week throughout my cycle. This low dose wont desensitize you from lh, but will produce enough to prevent atrophy from setting in. I learned the hard way that some atrophy will not revert! If I had been using hcg this way in that particular cycle, I would have 2 fully functional testicles.

So in short...dont wait for the atrophy to set in. Take strategic small doses throughout yopur cycle to keep a small LH signal flowing. This small signal will keep the testicles producing small amounts of test, which in turn will prevent any atrophy from setting in.

I look at it this way...you give your car an oil change so the engine doesnt break down, which is preventitive maintenance. Use the HCG in the same mannor.

 

[Enock]

I have changed my view on HCG. I dont wait for the atrophy to set in anymore. I take 500ius 2 times a week throughout my cycle. This low dose wont desensitize you from lh, but will produce enough to prevent atrophy from setting in. I learned the hard way that some atrophy will not revert! If I had been using hcg this way in that particular cycle, I would have 2 fully functional testicles.

So in short...dont wait for the atrophy to set in. Take strategic small doses throughout yopur cycle to keep a small LH signal flowing. This small signal will keep the testicles producing small amounts of test, which in turn will prevent any atrophy from setting in.

I look at it this way...you give your car an oil change so the engine doesnt break down, which is preventitive maintenance. Use the HCG in the same mannor.

If mine ever come back from my my cycle. When I finally get around to cycling again I'm doing this as well. It sounds a much smarter method. Why try and kick start it near the end of the cycle after atrophy. Seems less damaging to just never let it occur.

 

[baby_bbol]

If you're on a cycle of any strength and length, you probably would be well served by clomid or nolvadex (I prefer nolva post cycle).

Question???

would taking Nolvadex (for gyno protection) through the entire cycle or part of it, affect recovery or shutdown, any benefit? or do the suppressors have to be out of the body completely to have this effect?

The reason I ask is, this cycle, which is heavy test/eq/DBol, I have been using nolva off and on and testicles have not shrunk or gotten pulled up, still seem normal.

 

[DaMan]

I have changed my view on HCG. I dont wait for the atrophy to set in anymore. I take 500ius 2 times a week throughout my cycle. This low dose wont desensitize you from lh, but will produce enough to prevent atrophy from setting in. I learned the hard way that some atrophy will not revert! If I had been using hcg this way in that particular cycle, I would have 2 fully functional testicles.

So in short...dont wait for the atrophy to set in. Take strategic small doses throughout yopur cycle to keep a small LH signal flowing. This small signal will keep the testicles producing small amounts of test, which in turn will prevent any atrophy from setting in.

I look at it this way...you give your car an oil change so the engine doesnt break down, which is preventitive maintenance. Use the HCG in the same mannor.

I do something similar (so far with success): I take 500ius for 3 days (Friday-Sunday) with 20mg nolva, the next two weeks I take 100mg clomid for 3 days, then back to hcg + nolva. So far so good.

 

[Tricepratus]

The better is HCG plus Clomid and/or Nolv. You are atacking the "crash" from two differents mechanisms. Two of them are estrogent antagonist, blocking the negative feedback inhibition caused by estrogen and HCG simulate the action of LH and FSH, so estimulate more direct the release of test. The HCG is a very shock method so you cant using for long period, only is use for "shocking" the test to start the production.
In next day of use you see and fell the diference
Of course if cycle is short or have few strong AAS, maybe you dont need it.
I prefer to use both, for security

 

[Texas Ranger]

How long does HCG last after mixing it??

 

[Christianlifter]

I have kept mine refridgerated for a couple weeks after mixing...BTW I use HCG during the middle and last 2 weeks of cycle then start Clomid

God Bless

 

[T2O]

What the hell....When I was talking about doing hcg during/mid cycle almost everyone said don't do it. Now I see a decent amount doing it. Hmmmm Well my next cycle for sure I am going to do it mid cycle probably like Lawnsaver said 500ius twice per week. Then of course post cycle followed by clomid BTW Lawnsaver do you up the hcg dosage at the end of the cycle????

 

[AustinTX]

Lawnsaver's advice is the best Keep the boys in shape.

I'm not sure what "risk" 2XL was referring to, but if it is gyno... that is a "possible" side effect when it is used as a fertility treatment 5,000IU 3x a week for 3 weeks; then upping if necessary. I don't think 1,000 IU / week adds any appreciable risk to an AAS cycle...


This is from SWALE an HRT/AAS doc

My current best thoughts on how to use HCG

Thank you for asking. I currently have all my guys using HCG on two consecutive days EACH week--both my AAS and my HRT patients. The HRT guys use it at 250iu per day, and AAS at 500iu. However, both will increase that until they achieve the desired effect. I NEVER prescribe more than 1000iu per day, and I think anyone who does has failed to recognize how really powerful this hormone is. However, although it is the treatment of choice for secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism, I no longer use it for same. Why? Because I have yet to find a single patient who was really happy while on it as sole HRT therapy. Strangely, when I have measured serum T levels, a level while on HCG did not satisfy them, wheras THE SAME level might if it comes from the Upjohn test cyp I provide. I haven't figured out why yet, but it sure does seem to be the case. Alternatively, a guy may need 1000iu each day to be happy, and I just don't like anyone doing that much, because it would be every single day. Also, that would require two subQ injections (as 1/2 cc at a single injection is about it for comfort), and complience becomes an issue (HRT patients are not as, shall we say, motivated, as are AAS athletes).

I feel that keeping the testicles up to snuff makes recovery go that much faster at the end. Because HCG will add inhibition (for the same reason as the now-infamous Cy Wilson debate) I don't like to see guys use it much later than a few days after their last shot.

 

[Tricepratus]

What the hell....When I was talking about doing hcg during/mid cycle almost everyone said don't do it. Now I see a decent amount doing it. Hmmmm Well my next cycle for sure I am going to do it mid cycle probably like Lawnsaver said 500ius twice per week. Then of course post cycle followed by clomid BTW Lawnsaver do you up the hcg dosage at the end of the cycle????

I think that using HCG in cycle is usseless, because HCG mimic LH action, what is to stimulate the Leydig´s cells in testes to produce test. You would have to use HCG in all cycle length to maintain the production And remember that HCG can use for a short time. However, if you want in some part of cycle to restore your test production for a short time, maybe a big date, you could use it or if your cycle is very long you could it use in the middle.
I had note when I take nolv in cycle, to avoid gyno and other side effects. the testes is not shrunken too much, so maybe they are producting some test ( I think), so other reason to use nolv in cycle.

 

[Texas Ranger]

Guys, trust me! Swale, REALLY knows his stuff!! If he says use HCG at small doses during the cycle, then you should take note!!!

 

[AustinTX]

yep. he is also the doc interviewed by muscle mag last year, and his advice has changed since then based on the experiences of his patients.

Tricepratus, I'm pretty sure that having 2 working testicles at the end of a cycle isn't "useless"; see LawnSaver's experience where one of his has never been able to recover, also all of the people with azoo-a-whatever where they have a 0 sperm count, you'll end up using the same or less HCG than in the cycles where you take a bunch mid- and end-of-cycle, or save it all to the end and use larger doses.

 

[SCOTTY-TWO-HOTTY]

I've used HCG during a cycle and post-cycle... for me, using it during a cycle did FUCK ALL. I've used it several times post-cycle(at dosages of 5000IU/EW and 2500IU/E5D)with amazing results. I use it concurrently with Nolva and look ready for the stage... when I'm post-fucking-cycle!!!

Also, I don't believe in this 'micro-dosing' of HCG in daily 500IU injections. I'll do it once a week or once every 5 days in large doses. Why???
1.) I have great results using that method.
2.) If it was meant to be administered at 500IU... it would be available in those doses, its not. Every damn HCG vial I ever come accross is dosed either 2500IU/mL or 5000IU/mL.
3.) If you ever read an Endocrinology text, look at how they suggest Hypogonadism should be treated... its NOT with small ED doses of HCG.

 

[40butpumpin]

I agee with Scotty, I've used it both ways also and only post is necessary IMO. Also, although I've done the 500iu/day thing I agree with doing it in larger bursts spaced out a few days. Good post Scotty.

 

[AustinTX]

I've used HCG during a cycle and post-cycle... for me, using it during a cycle did FUCK ALL. I've used it several times post-cycle(at dosages of 5000IU/EW and 2500IU/E5D)with amazing results. I use it concurrently with Nolva and look ready for the stage... when I'm post-fucking-cycle!!!

Also, I don't believe in this 'micro-dosing' of HCG in daily 500IU injections. I'll do it once a week or once every 5 days in large doses. Why???
1.) I have great results using that method.
2.) If it was meant to be administered at 500IU... it would be available in those doses, its not. Every damn HCG vial I ever come accross is dosed either 2500IU/mL or 5000IU/mL.
3.) If you ever read an Endocrinology text, look at how they suggest Hypogonadism should be treated... its NOT with small ED doses of HCG.

If it works for you great. But I think you're missing the point of his article, not sure it was posted on this thread, so can't blame you for that

As far as numbers 2 and 3; HCG is intended to treat hypogonadism and as a fertility treatment, which is why the vials are 2,5, and 10K IU. Swale's (and LawnSaver's) point is to PREVENT hypogonadism from happening in the first place. this can be done through lower weekly doses during a cycle. If 500 IU x 2 isn't working for you, he recommends bumping it to 750 or 1000 IU x 2. If your testicles never atrophy, there is nothing to recover, and you won't end up being one of the unfortunate cases where they never do recover, or it takes extended fertility treatment to get them back in shape.

 

[DieselDan]

How long do you wait to take the first shot of hcg after your last shot of test? how much/ week when taking 250mgs test per week?