HCG and Test Levels

[tombphilips]

Realgains has written a couple of posts talking about HCG and Clomid. From these posts it seems that one should begin Clomid therapy after androgen levels return to about normal. This would be 3 weeks post Nadrolone Decanoate. It is also suggested that HCG can be used during this 3 week period to cause the testes to return to normal size, and the Clomid would start immediately following the 2-3 weeks of HCG.

From this I am assuming that the Testosterone resulting from HCG is very short lived (or else Clomid therapy for the purpose of blunting estrogen signals to the HPTA system would be ineffective).
1. Short lived Test from HCG?

2. What sort of Testosterone levels can be expected with HCG?

Another assumption I have is that since HCG structurally is very similar to LH and FSH then it will facilitate the production of sperm as well as Test. Is this correct or not? It would be a good thing to know as androgens generally shut down sperm productions, but if HCG doesn’t it would be nice to know what to expect.
3.Sperm from HCG?

HCG only at 500mg every other day for 11 weeks would raise testosterone levels above normal (what I am really planning is adding HCG to low dose Deca, but now I would like to know more about HCG)…..
When I went through puberty (15-18 years ago) I got gynocamastia. The only symptom I had was hard sore knots under my nipples, and I don’t think I grew appreciable breast tissue. With HCG at such low doses will estrogen be elevated above normal male levels? Will it reach normal male puberty levels (which proved to be the onset of gyno for me)?
4. Will Nolvedex or Clomid anti-e be necessary just for HCG at this low dose?


Thanks,
Tom




More information if you want:

What I am considering is using low dose HCG, 500mg every other day throughout a 200-300mg per week Deca cycle to prevent Deca’s suppression of the sex drive (and to keep the testes working for post cycle recovery). The HCG would start in week one or two and continue until week 11. Deca would stop at week 8 and Clomid (for the purpose of hindering estrogen signals to HPTA) would start at week 11 going for 3 weeks.

 

[rm2738]

"HCG only at 500mg every other day for 11 weeks would raise testosterone levels above normal (what I am really planning is adding HCG to low dose Deca, but now I would like to know more about HCG)…..
When I went through puberty (15-18 years ago) I got gynocamastia. The only symptom I had was hard sore knots under my nipples, and I don’t think I grew appreciable breast tissue. With HCG at such low doses will estrogen be elevated above normal male levels? Will it reach normal male puberty levels (which proved to be the onset of gyno for me)?"

If you got Gyno during puberty, IMO you will most likely get it from HCG. I have never had any problems with Gyno, until I started HCG after a straight fina cycle at 500 IU's per day. 60mg Nolva/day cleared it up pretty good though. Just keep plenty of nolva on hand. I'm still learning here, but that's my exprience. As for your other questions, I'm interested about that too.

 

[T2O]

I wouldn't run HCG for that long........... I would only hit myself up with the HCG only when your boys start to shrink. I know if you use HCG for to long your body will not respond to it any more. I am under the impression that HCG should only be used as a kick start the clomid is what raises and holds your test levels up. I would really get more info or other opinions before you start a cycle that long with HCG.

 

[Zyglamail]

HCG is a glycoprotein this mimics our own LH, it is usually administered in units, not milligrams. I may be a bit off on measurements here but for HCG I think 5000IU is approx equal to 250mcg. Taking HCG will significantly lower LH and FSH production and biweekly 5000IU injections showed an increase in testosterone and estrogen by 150%(depending on the study ya look at).

Speculation on my part but HCG taken during a cycle at low dose (ie 500IU not mg) eod would logically help to keep the testis producing during a cycle however there are many feedback mechanisms and the combination of test/deca in the system may still hamper to some degree the effectiveness of the HCG. What most people do during deca (or any long cycle) is to simply use HCG for a couple weeks mid cycle and then again at the end.

Now, the reason HCG is used prior to starting post cycle nolva/clomid therapy is to reverse the atrophy of the testis. WHile HCG is present it may help the testis get working but in turn, as mentioned, it will hinder LH/FSH production which is essentially still shutting us donw, just at a different place.

As for weather or not you will suffer gyno from low dose HCG is anyones guess since gyno can be caused by a maryiad of reasons or from simply drastically changing hormone levels (ie puberty). On the plus side HCG effects are generally good for 3 days or so so if you sense side simply stop using and have nolva on hand.

 

[tombphilips]

Thanks for the replies.

Thank you all for the responses.

The idea about HCG throughout a cycle has also been mentioned by Real Gains (in the Deca never again thread and I think in his HCG What, Why, How thread).

At first HCG seemed like a great way to hold off nuts shrinking, but as I look at more Deca posts I am beginning to think a test source might be necessary throughout a Deca cycle. HCG is still a candidate and still looks good to me. Winny seems to have a strong following for Deca, but is oral 17a.

Anyway, thanks for all the responses.
Tom