hammer strength vs. dumbells

[liftingfreak1983]

bros,
what do you think is better for chest? the hammer strength machine or dumbells. i do perfect rest pauses on both i just feel with the wider grip on the hammer strength i get the better work out and im more sore on hammer...?

 

[WoodyAllen]

I personally would never use them over dumbells unless I had some sort of injury issue. I tore a tendon in my finger a few months back and for a while was unable to do some movements with free weights including bench and had to use machines - my chest really suffered.

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

Barbells and dumbells will always be superior to machines. Plain and simple.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

barbell is best

 

[Madcow2]

Just going to throw out that soreness has absolutely no correlation to the effectivness of a workout. It is more a function of low frequency and the body not being conditioned to the volume applied. Huge/supperior progress is made with trainees hardly ever getting sore simply because the program itself is better. My opinion on the question is the same as everyone else's so far.

 

[liftingfreak1983]

Just going to throw out that soreness has absolutely no correlation to the effectivness of a workout. It is more a function of low frequency and the body not being conditioned to the volume applied. Huge/supperior progress is made with trainees hardly ever getting sore simply because the program itself is better. My opinion on the question is the same as everyone else's so far.

really? because ive gotten all my gains from being always sore doing DC's routine three days a week.

 

[mayhems]

DBs are the best for building muscle... machines are too controlled and require less stablization compared to DBs and BBs... so your best off screwing the HS and going DB/BB

 

[Madcow2]

really? because ive gotten all my gains from being always sore doing DC's routine three days a week.

You can certainly make gains by being sore. You can make gains by being not sore. That's the nature of uncorrelated. That said, workouts where someone hits a bodypart with high volume and low frequency tend to produce DOMS. I personally don't consider this to be anywhere near an optimal way to train - most of the worlds strength coaches and researchers will tell you the same thing. That said, if you are getting good consistent results there is no reason not to ride out the wave.

 

[guldukat]

Gentlemen,

I'd usually agree with you, but Hammer machine presses are in fact superior to DBs in DC training because of the rest-pauses. The main reason is struggling to get the 'bells back into position with each rest-pause "mini-set"--especially when you're moving some pretty heavy iron--will waste a ton of energy and rob you of "extra reps." For example:

You do a set of incline DB press with a pair of 130s for 10 reps to failure (I know, I know, but that's what DC training calls for ). Now, you have to set them down, stand up, take 15 deep breaths, then get back on the bench and swing the DBs back up.

Wiped as you no doubt are, getting them to your chest will be hard enough, but now you need to crank out a few more reps. You'll probably be lucky to get 1--maybe 2, but I really doubt it.

Same drill once more. Put the 'bells down and 15 deep breaths, then back into position. Getting the DBs in play will be a real struggle now, and it'll be a small miracle if you can squeeze out just one more repetition.

That's 11-13 reps, max.

Compare that to how you might've done on the Iso-Incline. Say you get 10 reps with 360, fail, and do the breathing thing. When you take another stab at that weight, you'll probably be able to knock out 3-4 on the first rest-pause, and 1-2 on the last.

That's 14-16 reps.

Moreover, when it comes time to nail one of those inclines again, what'll be easier: to go up to 135 lb. DBs or toss an extra 2.5 or 5 on either side of the machine? The latter, of course. You should be able to add weight to the machine for several workouts without much trouble.

That said, Dante (Doggcrapp) does like DB presses, but he maintains that if you do them on his routine, you should raise the rep range such that you're rest-pausing something like 20-30 reps total; e.g.,

You get 15 reps
You rest-pause 4 more
You rest pause 2 more
15+4+2= 21 rest-paused total

Since you'd be using lighter weights, that would evidently help you not waste as much energy just trying to get them into position. But for anyone who wants to stick to the standard 11-15 reps rest-paused, it's much, much easier to use machines and barbells.

 

[guldukat]

You can certainly make gains by being sore. You can make gains by being not sore. That's the nature of uncorrelated. That said, workouts where someone hits a bodypart with high volume and low frequency tend to produce DOMS.

Mad,

You're certainly right about that, but DC training's actually the opposite: very low volume and relatively high frequency (well, not Starresque, but it nails ea/ bodypart 3 times in a 2 week period). And though I agree with you 95% about what constitutes an effective program, DC training's very good stuff--not run-of-the-mill HIT junk, that's for sure

I imagine Mr. LiftingFreak is primarily sore because he's simply not used to the weighted stretches, slower negatives and rest-pausing yet. The stretches alone made me sore as hell for quite awhile!

 

[Madcow2]

I'm not familiar with the program at all to be honest. Ultra heavy dumbells are a chore and getting them into position is more taxing than the lift so I see where you are coming from if the goal is to follow a specific program that calls for this stuff.

 

[superchicken1]

Gentlemen,

I'd usually agree with you, but Hammer machine presses are in fact superior to DBs in DC training because of the rest-pauses. The main reason is struggling to get the 'bells back into position with each rest-pause "mini-set"--especially when you're moving some pretty heavy iron--will waste a ton of energy and rob you of "extra reps." For example:

You do a set of incline DB press with a pair of 130s for 10 reps to failure (I know, I know, but that's what DC training calls for ). Now, you have to set them down, stand up, take 15 deep breaths, then get back on the bench and swing the DBs back up.

Wiped as you no doubt are, getting them to your chest will be hard enough, but now you need to crank out a few more reps. You'll probably be lucky to get 1--maybe 2, but I really doubt it.

Same drill once more. Put the 'bells down and 15 deep breaths, then back into position. Getting the DBs in play will be a real struggle now, and it'll be a small miracle if you can squeeze out just one more repetition.

That's 11-13 reps, max.

Compare that to how you might've done on the Iso-Incline. Say you get 10 reps with 360, fail, and do the breathing thing. When you take another stab at that weight, you'll probably be able to knock out 3-4 on the first rest-pause, and 1-2 on the last.

That's 14-16 reps.

Moreover, when it comes time to nail one of those inclines again, what'll be easier: to go up to 135 lb. DBs or toss an extra 2.5 or 5 on either side of the machine? The latter, of course. You should be able to add weight to the machine for several workouts without much trouble.

That said, Dante (Doggcrapp) does like DB presses, but he maintains that if you do them on his routine, you should raise the rep range such that you're rest-pausing something like 20-30 reps total; e.g.,

You get 15 reps
You rest-pause 4 more
You rest pause 2 more
15+4+2= 21 rest-paused total

Since you'd be using lighter weights, that would evidently help you not waste as much energy just trying to get them into position. But for anyone who wants to stick to the standard 11-15 reps rest-paused, it's much, much easier to use machines and barbells.

Very nice post! Thanks Bro. I lift at a gym but don't like to use a spotter - the heavy dumbbells RP'd seemed like a logistical nightmare.

Do you have any more info or thoughts on DC training... I have read cycles for pennies and a few others by Dante and Iron Addict but always looking for more.

SuperChicken1

 

[Debaser]

Yes, dumbells aren't necessarily conducive to rest-pause training. However, I would use them in any other circumstance. The more your strengthen the superficial muscles while ignoring the deep stabilizing/postural muscles, the less stable a joint will become.