GYNO and LETRO

[Loths]

This thread actually started on a different one were I was thinking about the usability of Hydrocortinze Cream for Gyno... well that matter got explore ans settled ont that thread.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/s...hidrocortizone-cream-gynecomastia-596759.html

I noticed my gyno about 2 weeks before trying Letro.(It is expensive).

Researching on the web on serveral sites, I decided to use LETRO due to its alleged GYNO REVERSAL properties.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthrea...t=gyno+reversal

http://www.bodybuilding-tips.net/s19/t9081.html

I follow the protocol 3 since I was not using and Anti-E.

Do far, my report on Letro are as follow:

1) 24 hours after it intake my libido was up. I mean, really up.
2) on the Third day I began to feel weird. Not bad, but not good either. Is a strange feeling. I aslo noted that the swelling on the gyno had reduce, but there still was that little paind on the little.
3) Around the 4rht to 5th Day I did notice a reduction on the gyno, but not so much on the lump. Still feel a bit hard.

Is appear I have to use this product no longer that 4-6 weeks. To be honest, is dreading it, I am only 5 day on it, and I feel is powerfull. Will it remove the lump... Hmmm.. that remaind to be seen... I just dont see how it can breakdonw that tissue.

I also wonder if is reduced/reverse the lump, will I ever be subject to gyno? Or will it 'kill' it?

I will keep you all updated on this regard.

 

[Loths]

I am my 8 day on letro, and I know there has been a reduction on the gyno, an I can almost say that the lump has gotten a little smaller. The pain on the nipple has subsided.

Working out with letro has been an experience... Is not bad, but is not great... I have a drier look; almost like a fade look.. My sking seems like it lacks a bit of shine, and my muscles are not a filled as before...The hair also drier, having less shine.

I have to say that the supression on estrogen by letro is strong...and definetely not a medication to use by the average joe (or anybody on HRT). There has to be a little of estrogen ont he system for a full anabolic effect.

Well, Brother.. any comments...? So far is seems better than surgery... IF not, then I alreayd taking to a doctor... I hope it doesnt come to that... more in the sense of the time I will be out of the gym!

 

[Bridger]

What is your dose?

 

[Loths]

What is your dose?

I started Taking .50mg, 1.mg, 1.5mg, 2.0mg, then 2.5mg for the rest on... so far it has been about 9 days. Like I said, the swelling and the pain are gone... but the lump.... welll I am not to sure... It seems smaller...

In theory I am happy about the results... so far... O.K... but working out with letro is a bitch... in the seems that I am tired, and the pumps are not hat great (bear In mind I am on HRT TESTO).

I am surprise not many brother has left inputs... I though gyno was a big concern.. then again I guess is when you are getting one, then you pay attention!

WEll, I will report in about 3 days... Hopefully, there will he some positive news!

 

[Jon79]

add nolva with it

 

[eddymerckx]

add nolva with it

smart bro up here^^^

 

[Bridger]

I thought i read on here that nolva and letro isn't super efficient. Something about the nolva reducing the effectiveness of letro. Im pretty sure i read that about these two compounds.

 

[Bridger]

I started Taking .50mg, 1.mg, 1.5mg, 2.0mg, then 2.5mg for the rest on... so far it has been about 9 days. Like I said, the swelling and the pain are gone... but the lump.... welll I am not to sure... It seems smaller...

In theory I am happy about the results... so far... O.K... but working out with letro is a bitch... in the seems that I am tired, and the pumps are not hat great (bear In mind I am on HRT TESTO).

I am surprise not many brother has left inputs... I though gyno was a big concern.. then again I guess is when you are getting one, then you pay attention!

WEll, I will report in about 3 days... Hopefully, there will he some positive news!

Im very curious about your results. Keep this log going.

Im on HRT as well, recently acquired a small lump/gyno from a short run of test/dbol. Have letro on hand and tried it out for a few days and it wore me out. no energy at all. Going to try another run in a while after my personal life settles down.

 

[Mavafanculo]

I thought i read on here that nolva and letro isn't super efficient. Something about the nolva reducing the effectiveness of letro. Im pretty sure i read that about these two compounds.

yes nolva/clomid reduces the effectiveness of letro and arimidex by a huge percentage (dont recall the numbre off hand). It does NOT have this effect with aromasin.

 

[Mavafanculo]

here's a summary of the state of science with respect to Gyno and SERMs/Aromatase Inhibitors

while Femera - letrozole - has anecdotal buzz, last I searched (about a year ago), the only non-surgical agents that have studies showing reduction of EXISTING gynecomastia are the serms Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - and raloxifene. ralox is more effective, but also more expensive and less available.

arimidex, which is an anti-a like Femera - letrozole - did nothing for reduction. great for prevention.

if anyone has studies showing Femera - letrozole - reduces xisting gynecomastia, post up. IMO, what will end up being shown if/when it is studied for this application is that because Femera - letrozole - is so much more effective at destroying or virtually eliminating Estrogen than arimidex , it would be effective at reducing existing gynecomastia even tho the studied anti-aromatse (arimidex) did not.

here at some of the SERM studies:

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1)
Prevention and management of bicalutamide-induced gynecomastia and breast pain: randomized endocrinologic and clinical studies with tamoxifen and anastrozole.
Saltzstein D, Sieber P, Morris T, Gallo J.
Urology San Antonio Research PA, Pasteur Medical Plaza, San Antonio, Texas, USA.

A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled multicenter trial involving 107 men receiving bicalutamide ('Casodex') 150 mg/day therapy following radical therapy for prostate cancer assessed tamoxifen ('Nolvadex') 20 mg/day and anastrozole ('Arimidex') 1 mg/day for the prophylaxis and treatment of gynecomastia/breast pain. Tamoxifen, but not anastrozole, significantly reduced the incidence of gynecomastia/breast pain when used prophylactically and therapeutically. Serum testosterone levels increased with tamoxifen relative to placebo but prostate-specific antigen levels declined in all treatment groups. Further studies are needed to define the optimum tamoxifen dose and to assess any impact on cancer control. The use of tamoxifen in this setting remains to be investigated



2)
1: J Pediatr. 2004 Jul;145(1):71-6. Related Articles, Links

Comment in:

* J Pediatr. 2005 Apr;146(4):576; author reply 576-7.
* J Pediatr. 2005 Apr;146(4):576; author reply 576-7.

Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia.
Lawrence SE, Faught KA, Vethamuthu J, Lawson ML.
Department of Pediatrics, University of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.

[email protected]

OBJECTIVES: To assess the efficacy of the anti-estrogens tamoxifen and raloxifene in the medical management of persistent pubertal gynecomastia.

STUDY DESIGN: Retrospective chart review of 38 consecutive patients with persistent pubertal gynecomastia who presented to a pediatric endocrinology clinic. Patients received reassurance alone or a 3- to 9-month course of an estrogen receptor modifier (tamoxifen or raloxifene).

RESULTS: Mean (SD) age of treated subjects was 14.6 (1.5) years with gynecomastia duration of 28.3 (16.4) months. Mean reduction in breast nodule diameter was 2.1 cm (95% CI 1.7, 2.7, P <.0001) after treatment with tamoxifen and 2.5 cm (95% CI 1.7, 3.3, P <.0001) with raloxifene. Some improvement was seen in 86% of patients receiving tamoxifen and in 91% receiving raloxifene, but a greater proportion had a significant decrease (>50%) with raloxifene (86%) than tamoxifen (41%). No side effects were seen in any patients.

CONCLUSION: Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. Further study is required to determine that this is truly a treatment effect.

PMID: 15238910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

3)
Management of physiological gynaecomastia with tamoxifen.
Khan HN, Rampaul R, Blamey RW.
Professorial Unit of Surgery, Department of Surgery, Nottingham City Hospital, Nottingham NG5 1PB, UK.

AIMS: We aimed to confirm suggestions that tamoxifen therapy alone may resolve physiological gynaecomastia. METHODS: A prospective audit of the outcome of tamoxifen routinely given to men with physiological gynaecomastia was carried out at Nottingham. Men referred with gynaecomastia had clinical signs recorded, e.g., type (diffuse 'fatty' or retro-areolar 'lump'), size and possible aetiology. They were offered oral tamoxifen 20mg once daily for 6-12 weeks. On follow-up patients were assessed for complete resolution (CR), partial resolution where patient is satisfied with outcome (PR) or no resolution (NR). Success was either CR or PR. RESULTS: Thirty-six men accepted tamoxifen for physiological gynaecomastia. Median age was 31 (range 18-64). Tenderness was present in 25 (71%) cases. Sixteen men (45%) had 'fatty' gynaecomastia and 20 had 'lump' gynaecomastia. Tamoxifen resolved the mass in 30 patients (83.3%; CR=22, PR=8) and tenderness in 21 cases (84%; CR=0, PR=0). Lump gynaecomastia was more responsive to tamoxifen than the fatty type (100% vs. 62.5%; P=0.0041). CONCLUSIONS: Oral tamoxifen is an effective treatment for physiological gynaecomastia, especially for the lump type.
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[nzrodney]

Keep the Nolva to use after you have finished with the letro or use another milder AI like Adex or Asin. Otherwise you are likely to get some rebound. I dont see the need to run any other AIs with femera as its knocks out almost all the estrogen anyway. Increased EFA's may assist in the drying out process going on.

 

[Loths]

Ok. Folks, here ismy upadate on letro...

I have been on it for 3.5 weeks.. Dam.. it is expensive... but does it work?

WEll, I am happy to report that letro stop my gyno, and reversed SOME. Not all...

Do you see my gyno?... NO... is there s lump still... YES...it reduced my gyno about 85%... but I still feel a tiny lump... and it basically the same lump from the 2 week on letro. NOthing had reduce for the 1.5 weeks

Now I tappering off,, doing 5 days on 1.25, then I will do another 5 days on .75, then will go on Nolvadex.

I have been on HRT with 200 mg TEST E all this time.


Will see how it goes on the long run. So far I am satisfied.... I just hope that novaldex can do the job on keep my gyno from returning, and I plan to do a low dosage of Novaldex (10 mg a day) if nothing, then I wll drop the dose to 5mg. There has to be some Estrogen for the things to work.

Will keep all posted on who it turn out.

Thanks all for your comments!

 

[Jon79]

if u have lumps usually just the letro will now work...

its the combo of letro and nolva that dissolve the lumps

i dont know the fuck big scientific paragraph behind it just do it and thank me later....

its worked for me twice....

 

[michaelChicago]

aromasin + tamoxifeno is effective to kill a "little" gyno ?

doses?

 

[enacer420nj]

Make sure you back down the letro dose slow like taper it off to avoid rebound or you will be right back to square one

 

[Loths]

Bros... it has been over a month since I stop taking letro,and started taking 5mg of Novaldex. I am on HRT or 200mg/week T.E. So far I have to say that the gyno that I had had not returned and all seems well. So to conclude this thread I started... letro, as described here does work.... at least for me.... one last word, as soon as you start feeling that little strange tingly feeling on the nipple, start letro...

Thank you all for contributing to this post!

 

[michaelChicago]

Make sure you back down the letro dose slow like taper it off to avoid rebound or you will be right back to square one

yes, but i'm trying with exemestane, after the letro use, for the possible rebound, with some proviron

 

[nzrodney]

Bros... it has been over a month since I stop taking letro,and started taking 5mg of Novaldex. I am on HRT or 200mg/week T.E. So far I have to say that the gyno that I had had not returned and all seems well. So to conclude this thread I started... letro, as described here does work.... at least for me.... one last word, as soon as you start feeling that little strange tingly feeling on the nipple, start letro...

Thank you all for contributing to this post!

thanks Loths for your very full report. You may find that your last small lumps will dissolve using Nolva.

 

[Burpees]

good thread, personal experiences are best shared.

 

[Cardinal Slin]

I think I have been on letro since (Friday or Saturday) along with Nolva.

I am definitely less full in the muscle body however I am on cycle and had a lot of water retention which has now all gone. Spots have increased since starting this (mainly on face and head + upper neck).

Pain in right nipple has reduced massively and lump is only slightly smaller. Having said that it is only about 5 days and I have a little more left to do.

My lips are definitely much drier as well as my joints are feeling it all the more. I am getting cramps - mainly in my neck and back.

I appear much leaner but this is due to holding less water.

I am soon to be doing letro (1/4 tab) once eod due to its half life and post cycle will hit it at 2.5mgs daily to try and reverse the very small gyno I have (only on left nipple). This all depends mainly on how the rest of the cycle goes and how the letro continues working until the end of my cycle.

I stopped the nolva today (I was developing gyno but the nolva helped control it and no letro has kicked in I will stop with the nolva).

 

[MaGilicuti]

great thread. i'm about to start nolva/letro myself. i'm going to aruba in a month so hopefully this helps.

i'm just scared this would affect my hairline as was already attacked by the last cycle i did

 

[MaGilicuti]

so is the gyno now completely gone? and is tappering off necessary?

 

[MaGilicuti]

bumpy?

 

[MaGilicuti]

bumpy?

 

[the elite addict]

bumpy?

man, ive been seeing your post for the past two weeks regarding gyno and letro. Run the letro and let it do its course. It should work. No, it will not affect your hair line. Just sex drive. How much confirmation do you need?

 

[eja35oz]

have you heard of liquiNolva ag-guys? is there ne other good liquid nolva's?

 

[jonny jacked]

i suffer from Gyno - juice related, not from my youth.

I attacked it two different ways. the first I cannot take credit for, and I forget whos method this is, but I did get it off of here.
it involved:

Letro and Nolvadex together (I forget the dosages sorry).
this method completely cleared up the lumps and puffy nips.

second method: just arimidex (about a ml or half ml a day)
this also completely got rid of lumps and puffy nips

ya, I got gyno again, and someone in the field told me to just take arimidex and it worked perfectly.

hey, maybe im just lucky

 

[Loths]

Brother

I for an update, I have to say that the plan I followed with letro worked well (see begining of thread). After the letro i started using ***5mg*** of novaldex.

As per gyno side effects, none. In fact, after the end of Letro, 5mg/d X 12 Days of Novaldex eliminated any trace of my gino. I am suprised.

I am on HRT (200mg test E, or 150mg Test E & 50mg Test P/3rd day)... no rebound.

My only bad experiences with letro were that I felt weird working out, and it is expensive... but on the flip side, the dosage taken for the gyno were low, and I still have about 35% of the pills.... (JUST IN CASE). Also, when I started taken letro, My libido was SUPER HIGH, and the factory was producing more "liquid" to carry my super little budddies

*** for HRT, the combination of 150-175 of Test E, and 50mg Test P/3rd day work wonders. The peaks and the valleys are smother... much less valleys!***

My best advice is... As soon as you notice a little pain on nipples, start taking Letro (as described here). In fact, if possible, try to have some letro on hand...just in case... at the end that initial cost will be much better that a surgery...