Glutamine. It Doesn't Work! (deal with it)

[Nelson Montana]

I've been saying this ever since it came out. ( about 7 years ago) Now there is more than ample proof that orally digested glutamine is so poorly absorbed that it's essentially a waste. And still...not everone has gotten the message.

So, for the last time. THIS is how glutamine - and the glutamine hype -works.

Glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in muscle tissue. That gave muscle mogal Bill Phillips a great idea. Sell that angle to bodybuilders and they'll buy tons of glutamine! There's only one problem. You can't absorb glutamine in an isolated state. His response? So what! Sell it anyway!

You see, glutamine is a non-essential amino acid. That DOES NOT mean you don't need it. What "non-essential" means is that the body converts it from other amino acids. In the case of glutamine, the body akes it mostly from Leucine, Isoleucine and Valine. (The branch chain amino acids). So, in essense, if you eat a high protein diet consisting of eggs, whey protein and meat, you get all the BCAAs and all the gluamine you can possibly absorb. Yet, it would take about a 100 grams of pure glutamine (one bottle og Twin Labs Glutamine Fuel) is wind up with just a couple of useable grams. That's the dumbest waste of money I can think of.

 

[manny78]

The only way Glutamine will work is IV (at 100-150g ED) and that's how they use it in hospitals. Otherwise it's useless except for the immune system.

 

[MR Pink]

what about Gplenish?

 

[Olorin]

It's about as effective as Yohimburn.

 

[Singleton]

The only way Glutamine will work is IV (at 100-150g ED) and that's how they use it in hospitals. Otherwise it's useless except for the immune system.

Where can you get it like this?

 

[manny78]

Where can you get it like this?

At your hospital or if you know one of their providers.

 

[The_Chemist]

It's about as effective as Yohimburn.

lol...funniest thing ive heard all day. Hey nelson....while were on the topic of yohibum, Whats your opinion??

 

[mt]

I wasted a ton of dough on Glutamine. Nelson, you're never around when I need you.

 

[view]

The only way Glutamine will work is IV (at 100-150g ED) and that's how they use it in hospitals. Otherwise it's useless except for the immune system.

Now that sounds hardcore!

 

[ham2]

there are gurus on other boards with as much pubmed clutter amassed to "prove" glutamine works, than did those who disbelieve it.
Any "study" is either with mice at 1/10 their bodyweight; or IV/IM at mammouth dosages.
I think i do better with a few grams of glutamine postworkout than i did without.
Anyway, what about OKG?
That supposedly acts as an anticatabolic & donor of glutamine once INSIDE the body processes.

 

["Z"]

Glutamine - Garbage
Glutamine Peptides = Good
Next generation: Glutamine tri-peptides = Better

One glutamine molecule is very delicate. Upon entering the stomach acid(PH of about 1.5), it is readily dstroyed because of the high acidity. <1% gets through the stomach and into the intestines. Which then goes to the bloodstream.

Glutamine peptides are two glutamine molecules bonded together. Before the acidity of the stomach can start to destroy them, the bond between the Glutamine molecules must be broken. Its due to this that a large amount of the glutamine peptides get through, and into the intestines. Much more than normal L-glutamine.

 

[Singleton]

SOunds good, but how can we know for sure? Maybe check blood glutamine levels?

Personally, I've felt that it's effective while cutting and especially when sick. Wishful thinking? Possibly.

 

[twistedneck]

How does dietary glutamine effect ammonia?

 

[ham2]

dr.Colgan claims too much glutamine at once raises ammonia levels.
i remember there was some complicate chemical explanation, which i don't remember.

 

[MR Pink]

anyone read this dr. mercola article?

http://65.54.186.250/cgi-bin/linkrd...n=http://mercola.com/2004/may/1/glutamine.htm

 

[Singleton]

Author L Rea talks about glutamine in his treatise on insulin titled "Big Fat Bastards and Muscular Beasts."

http://www.basskilleronline.com/insulin_fat_bastards.html

 

["Z"]

How does dietary glutamine effect ammonia?

N2(g) + 3H2(g) = 2NH3(g)

Nitrogen + Hydrogen = Ammonia

That could be the mechanism but I'm not sure. Thats more organic chemistry.

 

[powerforward]

fonz and chance that you will get your own board here at elite?

 

["Z"]

fonz and chance that you will get your own board here at elite?

I hadn't thought about it....why?

 

[ham2]

why would someone who got banned take the time to comeback, i'll never know...

 

["Z"]

why would someone who got banned take the time to comeback, i'll never know...

Because I have been in this board for about 4 years and I still have a lot of friends on this board.

And I do have the knowledge to help a lot of people out. Also, you can only advance to the next level of AAS and supplement science through trial and error. Book knowledge is all said and great, and you can theorize from it. But its the real world results from different people that makes or breaks a theory. Thats the reason why I'm here.

I got stripped of my MOD powers and banned...fine.

That's not why I'm here. I'm here to learn from people's real world results.
And if somebody needs some advice, I will always be happy to provide it.

It seems that the collection of knowledge is lost on you.

 

[jonny jacked]

Because I have been in this board for about 4 years and I still have a lot of friends on this board.

And I do have the knowledge to help a lot of people out. Also, you can only advance to the next level of AAS and supplement science through trial and error. Book knowledge is all said and great, and you can theorize from it. But its the real world results from different people that makes or breaks a theory. Thats the reason why I'm here.

I got stripped of my MOD powers and banned...fine.

That's not why I'm here. I'm here to learn from people's real world results.
And if somebody needs some advice, I will always be happy to provide it.

It seems that the collection of knowledge is lost on you.

...but yet another example of fonzy bashing a valued member. To the powers that be who decided on bringing fonzy back. great work.

 

["Z"]

...but yet another example of fonzy bashing a valued member. To the powers that be who decided on bringing fonzy back. great work.

Yet another lie designed to discredit me. Good Job.

My post was perfectly civil.

 

[digger]

...but yet another example of fonzy bashing a valued member. To the powers that be who decided on bringing fonzy back. great work.

The next time you see a banned member resurface, please drop me a PM instead of assuming that "the powers that be" screwed up.

 

[ham2]

i didn't want to "flame" anybody.
i got banned elsewhere too ( first time i responded to personal insults while knowing i'd be fired; second time i'll never know: all was ok but when i came back months later i had been banned ).
what i mean is: IT'S NOT WORTH IT.
there are dozens of other boards.
As a side note, you seem more ready to IMPART knowledge rather than seeking it

 

[Fonz]

i didn't want to "flame" anybody.
i got banned elsewhere too ( first time i responded to personal insults while knowing i'd be fired; second time i'll never know: all was ok but when i came back months later i had been banned ).
what i mean is: IT'S NOT WORTH IT.
there are dozens of other boards.
As a side note, you seem more ready to IMPART knowledge rather than seeking it

Well, it's good to be back.

 

[Nelson Montana]

As a side note, you seem more ready to IMPART knowledge rather than seeking it[/QUOTE]



BING-GO!

It's all about ego. That's what Fonz craves. He loves being the "know it all" -- or thinking he is, and having others think so too.

 

[Fonz]

As a side note, you seem more ready to IMPART knowledge rather than seeking it

BING-GO!

It's all about ego. That's what Fonz craves. He loves being the "know it all" -- or thinking he is, and having others think so too.[/QUOTE]

I impart knowledge because I have a massive amount of knowledge. Very few people all around the internet have more knowledge than i do. Thats the simple truth of the matter.

But, if for example, somethign came up that I did not know the answer to, I would LISTEN AND LEARN.

Thats how you evolve intellectually Nelson.

This is something you will have to learn by yourself Nelson, nobody will ever be able to help you.

At this point, you seem to stuck in a intellectual black hole.

 

[Nelson Montana]

BING-GO!

It's all about ego. That's what Fonz craves. He loves being the "know it all" -- or thinking he is, and having others think so too.

I impart knowledge because I have a massive amount of knowledge. Very few people all around the internet have more knowledge than i do. Thats the simple truth of the matter.

But, if for example, somethign came up that I did not know the answer to, I would LISTEN AND LEARN.

Thats how you evolve intellectually Nelson.

This is something you will have to learn by yourself Nelson, nobody will ever be able to help you.

At this point, you seem to stuck in a intellectual black hole.[/QUOTE]


You are such a jackass.

You would think someone so imperious would have at least have contibuted something to the world beyond self proclaimed internet know it all. Tell me Fonz, have you actually ever earned any money at anything? I mean, besides selling drugs or mowing lawns.

 

[Fonz]

I impart knowledge because I have a massive amount of knowledge. Very few people all around the internet have more knowledge than i do. Thats the simple truth of the matter.

But, if for example, somethign came up that I did not know the answer to, I would LISTEN AND LEARN.

Thats how you evolve intellectually Nelson.

This is something you will have to learn by yourself Nelson, nobody will ever be able to help you.

At this point, you seem to stuck in a intellectual black hole.

You are such a jackass.

You would think someone so imperious would have at least have contibuted something to the world beyond self proclaimed internet know it all. Tell me Fonz, have you actually ever earned any money at anything? I mean, besides selling drugs or mowing lawns.[/QUOTE]

I have no need to earn money.

I'm one of those people that can concentrate on whatever he wishes to do, like Research and Devlopment regarding Nuclear Fusion, because my family is quite affluent and I will never , ever have to worry about money.

Unlike you, who are driven exclusively by the accumulation of wealth, I am driven by the accumulation of knowledge. That last part was imparted on me by my mother. And that's what separates us both. I have the ability to critique supplements/products in a non-biased way, while you can't because you have a financial stake in the supplemments you preach out to other people.

One of these days(maybe), you'll realize that there is a lot more than life than money.

One can only hope.

 

[Nelson Montana]

|
I have no need to earn money.

I'm one of those people that can concentrate on whatever he wishes to do, like Research and Devlopment regarding Nuclear Fusion, because my family is quite affluent and I will never , ever have to worry about money.

Unlike you, who are driven exclusively by the accumulation of wealth, I am driven by the accumulation of knowledge. That last part was imparted on me by my mother. And that's what separates us both. I have the ability to critique supplements/products in a non-biased way, while you can't because you have a financial stake in the supplemments you preach out to other people.

One of these days(maybe), you'll realize that there is a lot more than life than money.

One can only hope.[/QUOTE]


Translation: You're a spoiled brat.

You preach about the insignificance of money yet you haven't a clue how to earn it or the responsibility that goes along with it. You honestly feel that your opinion is worth more than someone else solely based on the fact that you've been coddled and over praised. Everything has been handed to you without effort and then you have the balls to act superior because of it?

Bottom line: You're just a kid. And you're still too stupid to realize how little you know.

 

[Big Bad Buff]

At this point, you seem to stuck in a intellectual black hole.

That was a good one.

 

[Nelson Montana]

That was a good one.

Fonz praising his own post.

How sad is that?

 

[Big Bad Buff]

Fonz praising his own post.

How sad is that?

Ahhh Nelson, you're a funny man. Fonz wouldn't need to praise himself as he's pretty much owned you in this thread from what I can tell.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Ahhh Nelson, you're a funny man. Fonz wouldn't need to praise himself as he's pretty much owned you in this thread from what I can tell.

Let it go Fonz.

Geez, you are such a loser.

 

[Big Bad Buff]

Let it go Fonz.

Geez, you are such a loser.

I am not Fonz. Moron.

 

[powerforward]

now that fonz is back, maybe we can get you guys to quit fighting and maybe actually debate something like adults. something we could all benefit from.

fonz and nelson both have some good and relevant things to bring to the table, now is it too much to ask that everyone be civil to one another?

 

[ham2]

something escapes me...
1 they ban "fonz" & explain 999 good reasons for doing so.
2 "fonz" gets back with an alias, whom is banned
3 "fonz" is back original version
In the meantime many hearsay about "fonz" being banned/unbanned etc.

Now, irrespective of my private opinion ( yea i'm the long lost son of Rezah Pahlavi and got a 30' "thing" + damn i cracked notepad ), what's going on?

I appreciate the sit-com very much but it isn't conducive to this place's ethos to ban/unban/etc people this way...

 

[Fonz]

something escapes me...
1 they ban "fonz" & explain 999 good reasons for doing so.
2 "fonz" gets back with an alias, whom is banned
3 "fonz" is back original version
In the meantime many hearsay about "fonz" being banned/unbanned etc.

Now, irrespective of my private opinion ( yea i'm the long lost son of Rezah Pahlavi and got a 30' "thing" + damn i cracked notepad ), what's going on?

I appreciate the sit-com very much but it isn't conducive to this place's ethos to ban/unban/etc people this way...

Because out of all the people at EF, I am one of the few with the most experience and knowledge. That simple. I have also been here since the days EF was in diapers.

 

[ham2]

then why did they ban you first?
why did they claim you abused this&that?
Either you're an asset (in their own opinion) or a troublemaker...
how can it be both?

 

[Ulter]

I agree with Nelson that L-glutamine doesn't work. But you can't tell him that there is a difference between peptide bonded glutamine, acetyl l Glutamine, L-glutamine because he doesn't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.
His knowledge is limited to, "I say it sucks". He's not capable of giving any explanations on this board beyond that. "I say so" is all he ever says and if you confront him with science he gets mad and runs away.
Most the time he bashes things he doesn't understand simply because it draws more attention to him. And let's face it he's all about drawing attention.
It's so easy to just sit back and say this doesn't work or that doesn't work because people love to jump on the "lets bash it" bandwagon. Then he's got a whole gaggle of little geese following him right off the cliff. And all of it void of any science or pharmacology.
This is really the stupidest board at Elite.

 

[evolutionoftherevolution]

I agree with Nelson that L-glutamine doesn't work. But you can't tell him that there is a difference between peptide bonded glutamine, acetyl l Glutamine, L-glutamine because he doesn't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.
His knowledge is limited to, "I say it sucks". He's not capable of giving any explanations on this board beyond that. "I say so" is all he ever says and if you confront him with science he gets mad and runs away.
Most the time he bashes things he doesn't understand simply because it draws more attention to him. And let's face it he's all about drawing attention.
It's so easy to just sit back and say this doesn't work or that doesn't work because people love to jump on the "lets bash it" bandwagon. Then he's got a whole gaggle of little geese following him right off the cliff. And all of it void of any science or pharmacology.
This is really the stupidest board at Elite.

CONTENT EDITED

This post was originally a flame until I realized that doesn't help anything.

Ulter, I've read your posts, used your products AND PF products. You obviously know your shit. As does Nelson. Resorting to calling this board "The stupidest board at Elite" is bullshit and doesn't help anyone (and trust me I've been around the Elite boards and have read some posts that were ridiculous). Nelson said he doesn't like Glutamine and explained why. Problem solved.

You're not giving the majority of guys on this board credit. They are open-minded and do not jump right away on the "let's bash it" bandwagon.

Let's quit this bickering and move onward.

 

[powerforward]

evolution, dude i hear you on the lets cut the bickering, but ulter has been and still is one of the most helpful and knowledgable guys anywhere. a little respect goes along way.

 

[evolutionoftherevolution]

evolution, dude i hear you on the lets cut the bickering, but ulter has been and still is one of the most helpful and knowledgable guys anywhere. a little respect goes along way.

I'm sure he is knowledgable. But I'm not detecting an ounce of respect in his post. His comment about this board being the "stupidest board on Elite" was completely uncalled for.

But you are right regarding respect. Actually I'm not benefitting anyone on this board with my poison posts as well. Consider the previous one edited.

Point taken.

EOR

 

[Ulter]

f I remember correctly, you are the same guy who ripped on a product that had Acetyl L-Tyrosine simply because it was his (saying ALT was an "acid" that destroys intestinal flora). What's hilarious about that is that AF has a few products with Acetyl L-Tyrosine in them.

Actually you remember incorrectly. I posted about ALTYR when I was thinking of ALCAR in HCL form. It was a simple mistake and I was thinking of the wrong amino, I apologized for my "brain cramp" mistake but you can harp on it if you like. I don't really care.

No one is arguing semantics here. If Nelson would have posted that L-Glutamine doesn't survive digestion no one would have paid any attention to it. Because by this time, even high school kids know that. But Nelson, seeking to draw attention as usual, posted "glutamine" without qualifying what form knowing that peptide bonded glutamine are very topical here.
You've been here 2 months, I have been here 4 years. Stay another year and then tell me if you still feel the same about Nelson.
Take care bro.

 

[evolutionoftherevolution]

Actually you remember incorrectly. I posted about ALTYR when I was thinking of ALCAR in HCL form. It was a simple mistake and I was thinking of the wrong amino, I apologized for my "brain cramp" mistake but you can harp on it if you like. I don't really care.

No one is arguing semantics here. If Nelson would have posted that L-Glutamine doesn't survive digestion no one would have paid any attention to it. Because by this time, even high school kids know that. But Nelson, seeking to draw attention as usual, posted "glutamine" without qualifying what form knowing that peptide bonded glutamine are very topical here.
You've been here 2 months, I have been here 4 years. Stay another year and then tell me if you still feel the same about Nelson.
Take care bro.

Ulter, I edited that post after I looked at it. This whole argument is pointless and you're right...I have only been here 2 months. But I believe Nelson has a lot of good advice. I'm home with the flu and it's easy for me to flame, but I'm done flaming...for good this time.

Like the saying goes;

"If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all." I'll follow my own advice.

EOR

 

[Big Bad Buff]

I'm sure he is knowledgable. But I'm not detecting an ounce of respect in his post. His comment about this board being the "stupidest board on Elite" was completely uncalled for.

But you are right regarding respect. Actually I'm not benefitting anyone on this board with my poison posts as well. Consider the previous one edited.

Point taken.

EOR

The more I read your posts the more I understand why you're so impressed with Nelson and this forum. Basically you lack the capability of differentiating the true from the false. Anyone with even a cursory background or understanding of AAS pharmacology, sports nutrition or the science of supplementation would reduce Nelson's ramblings and rhetoric to that of a misguided egomaniac with an inferiority complex.

 

[evolutionoftherevolution]

The more I read your posts the more I understand why you're so impressed with Nelson and this forum. Basically you lack the capability of differentiating the true from the false. Anyone with even a cursory background or understanding of AAS pharmacology, sports nutrition or the science of supplementation would reduce Nelson's ramblings and rhetoric to that of a misguided egomaniac with an inferiority complex.

You're totally right. I have a sub 100 IQ and don't even know what the inside of a gym looks like.

But YOU totally rock! Seriously, you fucking ROCK dude. Keep up the useless flame threads.

I'm done.

 

[Ulter]

You're totally right. I have a sub 100 IQ and don't even know what the inside of a gym looks like.

But YOU totally rock! Seriously, you fucking ROCK dude. Keep up the useless flame threads.

I'm done.

That's phucking halarious. I'm still laughing as I type. I think that's gotta be one of my favorites. I hope you feel better.

 

[Big Bad Buff]

That's phucking halarious. I'm still laughing as I type. I think that's gotta be one of my favorites. I hope you feel better.

That dude is a complete assclown. No wonder he camps out on Nelson's forum. Birds of feather flock together. Go read some of his other posts. They are truly enlightening.

 

[ham2]

I'm not a dope.
while i might try NAG or whatever else, they will not con me into buying very expensive supplements where 50%+ of the weight are cheap sugars.
Sofar there's not one producer of NAG alone, to my knowledge, except bulk producers.
The di-tri-oligo peptide fairy tale is ages old.
Bonding glutamine with one, two or three aminos to enhance absorption.
As far as i know, they say peptide based stuff as GH etc will get hydrolyzated and/or the peptides will be dissolved in its components, ex glutamine & glycine etc.

 

[Fonz]

I'm not a dope.
while i might try NAG or whatever else, they will not con me into buying very expensive supplements where 50%+ of the weight are cheap sugars.
Sofar there's not one producer of NAG alone, to my knowledge, except bulk producers.
The di-tri-oligo peptide fairy tale is ages old.
Bonding glutamine with one, two or three aminos to enhance absorption.
As far as i know, they say peptide based stuff as GH etc will get hydrolyzated and/or the peptides will be dissolved in its components, ex glutamine & glycine etc.

It's hydrolisis. And hydrolisis involves the conversion of molecular bonded sugars into glucose, nothing to do with peptides etc.. For example, lactose gets converted to glucose via hydrolisis.

 

[ham2]

sure
from idros & luo ( or luomay ), that is "sweat" or humidity + "solve"/dissolve
i did study greek & latin at school as well.
and given we're here, "oligos" means " few chosen ones", hence oligopeptides, oligarchy etc.

Do not assume everybody's a third grader.

Irrespective of this, i read so many times like

************
In simplified terms, hydrolisis is the splitting of a large molecule into several smaller molecules through a combination of heat, churning, acidic and enzymatic actions
************

i've read of this process involving enzymes, bacteria & all sort of reagents + all sorts of compounds ( protein, chemicals etc ), hence not only sugars. In geology i think hydrolization means interaction between minerals & acids, meant to form new minerals.

This said, i read many times polipeptides (= more than one peptide ) get affected by the GI process & no longer ( like GH & other compounds) perform as expected.