Gh, insulin, igf-l? How much mass will these add to your physique?

[majutsu]

lol UA you're right, I just meant we're "evolving" loosely speaking; we are of course not a different species than the 70s. I meant "evolving" in the sense that car companies mean it in their commercials. Technology, drugs, etc, and everything you said is true. The sport is "evolving", the nutrition, the training, yada yada People always want to assume the difference between them and the pros is some drug they don't have. It's not.

 

[ATLmuscles]

I don't know where majustsy finds his "science says.." blah blah blah, but he's incorrect to tell you that GH doesn't do anything. Mostof what he says seems to be speculation based on his own thoughts. GH is the single reason that bodybuilders of the late 80's and early 90's jumped to that next level of size. It acts to increase the number of muscle (and other) cells while AAS increase the size of those cells. It is true that GH alone does not seem to increase muscle mass a great deal, but combined with AAS and insulin, the effects act synergistically to increase gains. To say GH doesn't do shit is incorrect and misleading. I can tell you from personal experience that GH is a very useful tool in your bodybuilding cabinet, but it is not the panacea drug that some expect it to be.

I've been doing alot of research about IGF-1, and that seems to be inconclusive. In studies done, they may administer 10,000 mcg/d (!) I don't think even ROnnie can afford that! So how much do pro's use? Again, I don't know, but I do know of very favorable results in the 100-200mcg/d range, combined with AAS and GH. WHen not using AAS, IGF1 is claimed to work very synergistcally with GH and insulin, but again not providing the gains that would be seen when using AAS as well.

 

[ATLmuscles]

What accounts for the freakish speed of today's runners?

We're evolving.

Also, protein is much higher quality. The doses of AAS used now are huge compared to the past. Training methods are more evolved, less chaotic. And I think insulin has something to do with it, too.

Evolution takes THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of years. Are you suggesting that today's Olympians are faster thatn a generation ago because of evolution???!!!!

And yes, nutirion and supplements are better today then twenty years ago, but the Markus RUhl's and Art Atwoods did not get so freaky because they have a better whey or because they leanred some new super-secret training technique.

You need to stop spreading your "ideas" as if they are factual, you are misleading alot of people. Do you even work out?

 

[majutsu]

Well, ATL the research is from pubmed, and we've covered this all before. GH and the Athlete: Is there a point? GH in double-blind placebo controlled studies for AIDS, aging body composition studies, and general (young) athletes is negative. AlanChiras from the HIV board had no good words for GH on that same thread, for example. The best place for you to get educated would be the British Medical Journal recent review, "A Case of the Emperor's New Clothes." If you want all the papers (at least 20) pm or post and I'll put them in, or you can find most, except this year's negative studies, in that same thread.

The fact is science has decided GH is useless for skeletal muscle growth. I've already given you the bodybuilder responses above. Now, science has been wrong before. So I'm not that attached to published articles like they're gospel. That's why I'd be much more interested in real bodybuilder experiences with GH. Tell me what doses you've done, brand, before and after weights, fat loss, and any other comments. That's what this should be about. Maybe the conditions in the lab aren't set right. That's why I want to know the real world.

I prescribed this stuff to patients in the late 90s without any apparent benefit, and most medical uses have been dropped. Except for GHD and +- Turners I can't think of many uses. But the idea was good, I'm still wondering what went wrong with the great "GH hope". Please post up your real world experiences ATL, I want to pick your brain and figure this out!

 

[Excidium28]

Doesnt GH + Insulin, make your organs grow too ???? thats why todays pros have belly's?

 

[unclebully]

GH is useless for muscle growth on its own sure. Fat loss and some bone growth is all you'll get from GH on its own. Combined with all the other stuff though there is a definate synergy which explains the massive pros today.

People often say that GH can improve ones genetics.

Say for example you were born with puny genetics, your heart, liver, lungs everything
will grow smaller than someone born to be a monster.
Therefore it is only possible for your body and its organs to support a certain amount of muscle mass. After a certain point it will be impossible to gain anymore.

I feel that the growth of all the internals is beneficial to someone trying to get bigger.
For example a bigger stomach and intestines should allow more digestion, bigger heart allows more blood to be pumped to muscles, bigger lungs better oxygen delivery.
Your basically changing your body to be able to hold greater mass than before.

Then theres the possibilty of increasing muscle cells.

That's just my little theory to explain the pro's of today, Only downside is the loss of a tiny waist. Plus it's probably going to shorten your life having a bigger heart e.t.c.

 

[shape]

GH is useless for muscle growth on its own sure. Fat loss and some bone growth is all you'll get from GH on its own. Combined with all the other stuff though there is a definate synergy which explains the massive pros today.

People often say that GH can improve ones genetics.

Say for example you were born with puny genetics, your heart, liver, lungs everything
will grow smaller than someone born to be a monster.
Therefore it is only possible for your body and its organs to support a certain amount of muscle mass. After a certain point it will be impossible to gain anymore.

I feel that the growth of all the internals is beneficial to someone trying to get bigger.
For example a bigger stomach and intestines should allow more digestion, bigger heart allows more blood to be pumped to muscles, bigger lungs better oxygen delivery.
Your basically changing your body to be able to hold greater mass than before.

Then theres the possibilty of increasing muscle cells.

That's just my little theory to explain the pro's of today, Only downside is the loss of a tiny waist. Plus it's probably going to shorten your life having a bigger heart e.t.c.

WTF are u talking about-bigger heart more blood-your body only has so much blood bro

you hit it on the head with your last quote-bigger heart and organs=shorter life=much shorter life

 

[Indy]

I don't know where majustsy finds his "science says.." blah blah blah, but he's incorrect to tell you that GH doesn't do anything. Mostof what he says seems to be speculation based on his own thoughts. GH is the single reason that bodybuilders of the late 80's and early 90's jumped to that next level of size. It acts to increase the number of muscle (and other) cells while AAS increase the size of those cells. It is true that GH alone does not seem to increase muscle mass a great deal, but combined with AAS and insulin, the effects act synergistically to increase gains. To say GH doesn't do shit is incorrect and misleading. I can tell you from personal experience that GH is a very useful tool in your bodybuilding cabinet, but it is not the panacea drug that some expect it to be.

I've been doing alot of research about IGF-1, and that seems to be inconclusive. In studies done, they may administer 10,000 mcg/d (!) I don't think even ROnnie can afford that! So how much do pro's use? Again, I don't know, but I do know of very favorable results in the 100-200mcg/d range, combined with AAS and GH. WHen not using AAS, IGF1 is claimed to work very synergistcally with GH and insulin, but again not providing the gains that would be seen when using AAS as well.

I agree, almost all studies show at least a minimal amount of LBM, granted they are in non BB scenarios and most were not even exercising. So workouts and AAS should really make a diff ontop of a drug that multiplies cells.

 

[unclebully]

WTF are u talking about-bigger heart more blood-your body only has so much blood bro


you hit it on the head with your last quote-bigger heart and organs=shorter life=much shorter life

Well a bigger heart should be able to pump more blood to your muscles, thats my guess anyway. I never said it would make more blood.

 

[Excidium28]

Bigger heart wouldnt shorten your life, think of have many beats you save a day because your heart doesnt, have to pump as fast, like maraton runners have huge hearts some of them have been reported to have a 30 bpm resting hr. Those fukers are can live up to 110 years.