Get ready for $4.00 a gallon gas prices in the US.

[Y_lifter]

anya.. Should we meet up down at the Bus Stop tommorow morning ?

 

[bluepeter]

As soon as you say 'for the collective whole' you are imposing!

The collective whole has no rights, individuals have rights and the collective whole is merely individuals who all have rights.

Acting 'for the whole' means you are superseding individual rights BY DEFINITION.

Take your socialism and love for the whole elsewhere.

I consider the source when reading bioboy's response but by reading yours I know I'm likely wording it slightly incorrectly. I do not wish to 'impose' my wishes/beliefs about environmental responsibility on other individuals. What I do presume to do is try and prod my government to be more environmentally responsible as an entity unto themselves. I don't pretend to be an expert on where or how this would happen but when I see an alternative that is clearly better than the status quo, I will endorse it

 

[Becoming]

I do not wish to 'impose' my wishes/beliefs about environmental responsibility on other individuals. What I do presume to do is try and prod my government to be more environmentally responsible as an entity unto themselves. I don't pretend to be an expert on where or how this would happen but when I see an alternative that is clearly better than the status quo, I will endorse it

I do understand where you are coming from though I think I feel quite differently in terms of action...

the last thing I want is the government mandating some kind of action or rules that will cost me money and result in a half-assed job on the issue... Government is too slow and too inefficient... take vehicles as we said- though cars are quite improved from previous (but I will grant you could still be much better) not only do we pay more for this (as the companies pass on the cost of things they are required to comply with), but also the government has almost totally ignored other trucks, ships, machinery etc types, which are a much bigger part of the equation (and have much more room for improvement)

I feel it would be much more effective to increase your own personal support of companies that are taking steps in the right direction... (as you have been) and voice the virtues of those products to others who have potential to listen... in that way you are not only encouraging further technological advances and the companies which make them (which the govt does not do) but also supporting the spread of such technology...

I know it seems like it is a less effective approach- but I think you would get closer to where you would like to be and get more support from others than legislation would in the long run.... (think about the psychology diff between "you must" vs "you can"

 

[bluepeter]

I do understand where you are coming from though I think I feel quite differently in terms of action...

the last thing I want is the government mandating some kind of action or rules that will cost me money and result in a half-assed job on the issue... Government is too slow and too inefficient... take vehicles as we said- though cars are quite improved from previous (but I will grant you could still be much better) not only do we pay more for this (as the companies pass on the cost of things they are required to comply with), but also the government has almost totally ignored other trucks, ships, machinery etc types, which are a much bigger part of the equation (and have much more room for improvement)

I feel it would be much more effective to increase your own personal support of companies that are taking steps in the right direction... (as you have been) and voice the virtues of those products to others who have potential to listen... in that way you are not only encouraging further technological advances and the companies which make them (which the govt does not do) but also supporting the spread of such technology...

I know it seems like it is a less effective approach- but I think you would get closer to where you would like to be and get more support from others than legislation would in the long run.... (think about the psychology diff between "you must" vs "you can"

Well put. I do agree that government is generally the last one on the bandwagon so to speak and I do support companies that are taking steps. The only reason I bring government to the table is because most things require their funding at some point of the process.

 

[Testosterone boy]

My father made a pretty good point several years ago suggesting OPEC cuts production when the US and its allies endorse or enforce policy detrimental to Muslim Arabs and Palestinians. They're just getting us back.

We invade Iraq so they crank up oil prices.

Of course there’s a lot more to it. But the principle idea is that OPEC's production quotas are often arrived at using more than just "official" demand/supply forecast analysis. They're paying us back for the unwanted influence the US is projecting, and planning to project in the region.


The real question is, why isn't Bush doing something about it? Bush should be leaning on key member OPEC states to crank up production. Not only would this give a big push to the faltering economic recovery, but boost his reelection chances in the process. IMO, Bushs inaction represents more of a perpetual gratuity care of John Q. Public to his backers in big oil, than a earnest inability to do anything about it.

A by product of earning hatred and mistrust is that your "leanings" get ignored......at best.

 

[Becoming]

The only reason I bring government to the table is because most things require their funding at some point of the process.

Yeah but they always f something up - because too many middle men have their ear... look at what I was saying about how arizona tried to do that... it blew up in their face, almost bankrupted the state, and we have to pay for it now (although I think the state govt in AZ is dumber than most)...

the government would try some half-assed way to force something in instead of letting it happen through innovation of current ideas... and the price will be too high, and it will be inefficient and everyone will hate it...

I am all for improvements- as long as I don't have to pay for them through more taxes, AND if I am allowed to still drive a well-maintained 5.0L mustang when I like from time to time....

 

[Testosterone boy]

i would vote for bush if gas was .98 again

Do us all a favor and drop your poltical interests.

 

[buddy28]

A by product of earning hatred and mistrust is that your "leanings" get ignored......at best.

debatable. Everyone has their price.

 

[Becoming]

canada is a total joke

they need a good ass kicking

canada hasnt done shit in any form of tech improvements over the last 50 years

canada = worthless

sorry just had to post this pic to accompany the above....

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Well put. I do agree that government is generally the last one on the bandwagon so to speak and I do support companies that are taking steps. The only reason I bring government to the table is because most things require their funding at some point of the process.

While this is true, government funding is most effective when it does not interfere with the lives of everyday citizens.

The space program would have been impossible without the government. From that we have gptten many technical breakthroughs. But there was no competing space program, no private sector to be legislated against or controlled, and no citizen use of space.

Likewise the military. Not surprisingly, the military and space programs have led us to many of the inventions that we take for granted. (Internet, cell phone, rockets etc).

When the government does things that ONLY the government can do, then
the advantage of a massive funding source is maximized. When the government gets involved where the private sector already is, the creativity and ingenuity of the prviate sector is limited by top-down heavy handedness.