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Subject: View of the World: Ramblings of an Old Man

By Joe Galloway





If you aren't interested in the ramblings of an old man, please delete

now. If you're still there, pull up a chair and listen.



Is there anyone else out there who's sick and tired of all the polls

being taken in foreign countries as to whether or not they" like" us?

The last time I looked, the word "like" had nothing to do with foreign

policy. I prefer 'respect' or 'fear.' They worked for Rome, which

civilized and kept the peace in the known world a hell of a lot longer

than our puny two centuries-plus.



I see a left-wing German got elected to office recently by campaigning

against the foreign policy of the United States. Yeah, that's what I

want, to be lectured about war and being a "good neighbor" by a German.

Their head honcho said they wouldn't take part in a war against Iraq.

Kind of nice to see them taking a pass on a war once in while. Perhaps

we needed to have the word "World" in front of War. I think it's time

to bring our boys home from Germany. Outside of the money we'd save,

we'd make the Germans "like" us a lot more, after they started paying

the bills for their own defense.



Last time I checked, France isn't too fond of us either. They sort of

liked us back on June 6th, 1944, though, didn't they? If you don't think

so, see how nicely they take care of the enormous American cemeteries up

above the Normandy beaches. For those of you who've studied history, we

also have a few cemeteries in places like Belleau Woods and Chateau

Thierry also.

For those of you who haven't studied it, that was from World War One the

first time Europe screwed up, and we bailed out the French. That's

where the US Marines got the title 'Devil Dogs' or, if you still care

about what the Germans think, Teufelhunde." I hope I spelled that

right; sure wouldn't want to offend anyone, least of all a German.



Come to think of it, when Europe couldn't take care of their Bosnian

problem recently, guess who had to help out there also. Last time I

checked, our kids are still there. I sort of remember they said they

would be out in a year. Gee, how time flies when you're having fun.



Now we hear that the South Koreans aren't too happy with us either. They

"liked" us a lot better, of course, in June 1950. It took more than

50,000 Americans killed in Korea to help give them the lifestyle they

currently enjoy, but then who's counting? I think it's also time to

bring the boys home from there. There are about 37,000 young Americans

on the DMZ separating the South Koreans from their "brothers" up north.

Maybe if we leave, they can begin to participate in the "good life" that

North Korea currently enjoys. Uh huh. Sure.



I also understand that a good portion of the Arab/Moslem world now

doesn't "like" us either. Did anyone ever sit down and determine what

we would have to do to get them to like us? Ask them what they would

like us to do. Die? Commit ritual suicide? Bend over? Maybe we should

follow the advice of our dimwitted, dullest knife in the drawer, Senator

Patty Murray, and build more roads, hospitals, day care centers, and

orphanages like Osama bin Laden does. What with all the orphans Osama

has created, the least he can do is build some places to put them.

Senator Stupid says if we would only "emulate" Osama, the Arab world

would love us.



Sorry Patty, in addition to the fact that we already do all of those

things around the world and have been doing them for over sixty years, I

don't take public transportation, and I certainly wouldn't take it with

a bomb strapped to the guy next to me. Don't get me wrong: I'm not in

favor of going to war. Been there, done that. Several times, in fact.

But I think we ought to have some polls in this country about other

countries, and see if we "like" THEM. Problem is, if you listed the

countries, not only wouldn't the average American know if he liked them

or not, he wouldn't be able to find them. If we're supposed to worry

about them, how about them worrying about us?



We were nice to the North Koreans in 1994, as we followed the policies

of Neville Clinton. And it seemed to work; they didn't restart nuclear

weapons program for a whole year or so. In the meantime, we fed them

when they were starving, and put oil in their stoves when they were

freezing.



In a recent visit to Norway, I engaged in a really fun debate with my

cousin's son, a student at a Norwegian University.

I was lectured to by this thankless squirt about the American "Empire,"

and scolded about dropping the atomic bomb on the Japanese. I reminded

him that empires usually keep the stuff they take; we don't, and back in

1945 most Norwegians thought dropping ANY kind of bomb on Germany or

Japan was a good idea. I also reminded him that my uncle, his

grandfather, and others in our family spent a significant time in

Sachsenhausen concentration camp, courtesy of the Germans, and they

didn't all survive. I further reminded him that if it weren't for the

"American Empire" he would probably be speaking German or Russian.



Sorry about the rambling, but I just took an unofficial poll here at our

house, and we don't seem to like anyone.



Happy New Year.



Provided by Joe Galloway, author of We Were Soldiers.
 
fuck france. they've always been cowards. they always talk a big game but when the heat is on... they're gone too!!

germany.... if it wasn't for the americans europe and maybe the rest of the world would still be under nazi control. i dont think they should even have a word in anything.

belgium... who???
isnt that the place where all the good chocoloate comes from?

U.S, U.K.....you want some?
 
fuck those cheese eating surrender monkeys!

I know that the europe has an education system that allows its kids to basically pick and choose their subjects of study... maybe some of them should take a fuckin history class once in awhile.
 
I agree. So if Germany or France were attacked by Iraq guess who they would call, us. I'm tired of hearing about "No blood for oil" , WAKE THE FUCK UP! We will attack Iraq to destroy their capabilities to harm others. It has nothing to do with oil. If in the future France or Germany got hit with a biological weapon I say we turn our backs and say "We could have taken care of that but you chose not to support us". This Marine has spoken.
 
Totally agree--its time for the TRUE Americans to stand up and do something--Im tired of hearing all the feminist tree huggers say that war is bad and so is Bush---give me a break all these ungrateful people dont realize that America saves this planet.
 
I agree with alot of this, but we should also remember that France helped us out when we were trying to get out from under England and they did give us the statue of liberty didn't they? I agree that there opinion of us now isn't justified though.
 
nuh_mizer said:
I agree with alot of this, but we should also remember that France helped us out when we were trying to get out from under England and they did give us the statue of liberty didn't they? I agree that there opinion of us now isn't justified though.

Fuck France...lets invade them..take over all their shit and import the Eiffel tower to America after were done as a kind of souveneir. Well put it in the strip in Las Vegas....
 
Yes, let's all blindly follow the Hitler of today, Geo W. Bush and his sidekick ( fuck the constitution) Ashcroft. Can none of you simple sheep read between the lines?:destroy:
 
chat boards my friends.

Damn u guys are making my bp sky high!

If anyone is to be compared to Hitler, it should be Sadam.
 
chat boards my friends.

Damn u guys are making my bp sky high!

If anyone is to be compared to Hitler, it should be Sadam


Does Sadam also want to tap every phone conversation, read every e-mail, record every credit card tranaction and travel arrangement? Refwr to "The Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003" No doubt Sadam is a cocksucker the world would be better off without, but at what cost to American life. I agree with you bro, this is chat board material, maybe that's why I seldom venture there.:)
 
liftsiron said:
Yes, let's all blindly follow the Hitler of today, Geo W. Bush and his sidekick ( fuck the constitution) Ashcroft. Can none of you simple sheep read between the lines?:destroy:

dude...
i hope you're just plain stupid because a statement like that is purely ignorant and quite frankly can get you hurt badly.

consider yourself lucky to be behind the security of a website cause face to face, i'd make you another fuckin asshole.
 
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liftsiron said:
Yes, let's all blindly follow the Hitler of today, Geo W. Bush and his sidekick ( fuck the constitution) Ashcroft. Can none of you simple sheep read between the lines?

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Especially since Hitler mass murdered Jews and Bush is a proclaimed Christian.

You can dislike Bush & his administration, but please refraim from purely ignorant statments like that:rolleyes:
 
Liftsiron- Sadam does not have to worry about terrorists attacks on his country in the same manor that we do. I am not saying that I agree with the act itself, although I do see the meaning behind it.

Mods please move.
 
If you guys can't see our rights getting stripped from us everday then you are all blind as Hellen Kellar. Good post Liftsiron, I would call him the antichrist before the new Hitler, but hey, whats the difference. Sorry guys I'm not as easy to be persuaded to jump on the bandwagon. Something is gonna happen really soon, and if the terrorists don't do it, Bush will. If he wants to live up to his dad then he needs to go over there and pick up a gun and die like he is trying to make the rest of us do. He'll be nice and safe in the whitehouse while we go kill ourselves for the great freedoms we have in this country. Yeah fucking right, that motherfucker doesn't fool me. Enjoy this great freedom while it lasts because it's disapearing faster than you can say the word. Oh, and leancuisine what the fuck do you care what we say about OUR president, mind your own fucking English ass business. Your gonna kick our ass because we express our views about our president? Come down here to Texas motherfucker and I'll kick your ass so hard you'll land right back in the shithole you came from.
 
Watson said:
If Oh, and leancuisine what the fuck do you care what we say about OUR president, mind your own fucking English ass business. Your gonna kick our ass because we express our views about our president? Come down here to Texas motherfucker and I'll kick your ass so hard you'll land right back in the shithole you came from.

first of all bitch,
i have dual citizenship... england, u.s. was born in u.s bitch!!!

second,

you wanna roll up on me bitch?
i'll flip your punk ass like a clown bitch!

you dont KNOW me punk!
dont make me roll your redneck texas ass like an egg roll bitch!

you better recognize home boy or you get wrecked.
anytime you find your ass in london, hit me with an email so i can unleash some aggression and send you back to texas for your friends and family to see all wrecked up, BITCH!
 
BWA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

You didn't like that did ya, leanycuisiny?
Damn, you need to start writing your own rap songs with the shit you were coming up with. You must be from the English Ghetto.
Dual citizenship, yeah right, you probably came over on a fucking sardine boat like your fucking ancestors.

Yeah I'll shoot you an email, and you should come down here some time, we can do some good old bullriding and I'll show you how we really stomp some ass!

BWA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
YEAH!!!!
 
I hate comments like that ignorant guy who said "Bush is gonna get people killed" Hey noone has been drafted its all the choices That the military makes.. have you listened to what the Marines have said in Iraq "We want to be here, this is what we are trained for and we are having fun"!!! Wake your ass up or do another 3000 innocent lives have to be killed in order for that to happened. It all comes down to people being cowards. My friends are there dying for people who dont support them and just use America for the assets--these people just spit on our soil and they're the ones who should be on the front lines instead bitching and complaining how "Bush is the antichrist.." Tell me what you know of the antichrist?? He will come as a peacemaker first like your hippy ass.
 
Lets see, I want to get my college paid for, so I think I'll go to the fucking desert, leave my friends and family, eat rations, dodge bullets and bombs, sleep in a tent, get yelled at, hang out with the enemy, and get no pussy for a year. When 95% of the the guys being sent off joined this is not something they had hoped would happen and if you believe that then your a fucking idiot, plain and simple. They said on TV that they wanted to be there and they are having fun!? Of fucking course they said that. They're on national fuckin TV. What do you think they are gonna say "We hate it here, I miss my mommy." Give me a GD break. Some of you guys are so damn brainwashed its pathetic. Hey legacy if your such a badass go enroll tommorow, get your little gun and maybe you and leanycuisiny can meet up in England and head off to good old Iraq and join in on some of the fun all of our troops are having over there. I'll be so jealous of you guys. I got to stay here and work out, damn.
 
WATSON FAGBOY,

just cause your faggot redneck ass is scared to be in the frontline doesnt mean that others are... BIATTCCHHH!

get your finger outtta your ass, fagboy, and realize that not everyone like to suck cock like yourself. PUNK!!!!!
 
Hey Watson leave the English alone dont you know they are on our side. Quit making us look ignorant. I joined the Marines knowing full well that we could go to war. Why else do you join and get trained. WAKE UP. Your a big talker but if you want to impress me go join the USMC an do something about it.
 
Watson said:
He'll be nice and safe in the whitehouse while we go kill ourselves for the great freedoms we have in this country. Yeah fucking right, that motherfucker doesn't fool me.

Watson you honestly believe that Bush's 4 years in office is what has the US at odds with half the countries of the world?

We could have elected Mickey Mouse 4 years ago and we'd still be in this shit.

A few of you guys are bitter over losing certain freedoms and I can understand where you're coming from, however, that would have happened anyway I guarantee you.

Tell me who else would have had the balls to stand up to these US hating bastards?

Bush is a throw-back IMO. The guy is decent and believes in His country and is willing to fight for it. I respect that.
 
leancuisine said:


dude...
i hope you're just plain stupid because a statement like that is purely ignorant and quite frankly can get you hurt badly.

consider yourself lucky to be behind the security of a website cause face to face, i'd make you another fuckin asshole.

I fail to see how his comment is ignorant. Maybe he took it a little too far with the Hitler comparison. Regardless, if your too blind to see Bush and Ashcroft's power grabs and blatant trampling of our constitutional rights, your the idiot. Maybe you'll understand when you get busted for 'roids thanks to some information obtained via the Homeland Security Act of the Patriot Act.

The fact is you people are arguing over two seperate subjects. Group A arguing the Bush is a power hungry fuck, and Group B, arguing that we should go to war.

All the internet tough guys on this thread should chill. You all look like idiots.
 
Just because leancuisine is a piece of shit, doesn't mean I don't like all english.

England is one of the most beautiful places I've been in my life, and the people were honestly great, but I never visited the ghetto either, which may explain why I didn't see the scum of London like leanycuisiny here.

40butpumpin your an intellegent guy but I don't quit understand what you meant by that thread. None of us actually know George W. so I don't want to hear he is a fucking hero and is standing up for his country. Bottom line is he is not gonna be the one jumping out of the trench and getting blown to bits because of it. Hey if your a marine or in the forces then I have the fullest respect for you, but you can't honestly expect me to believe its gonna be a ball over there. There is gonna be a lot of lives lost, we need to stop being the world police for a while and take a break.
 
daemon said:


I fail to see how his comment is ignorant. Maybe he took it a little too far with the Hitler comparison.
All the internet tough guys on this thread should chill. You all look like idiots.

another bonehead joins the festivities.

if your dumbass doesn't see that comparing bush to hitler is purely ignorant then you got problems!!!!

do you fail to see how that comment is not ignorant????

moron:p
 
Watson said:
Bottom line is he is not gonna be the one jumping out of the trench and getting blown to bits because of it. Hey if your a marine or in the forces then I have the fullest respect for you, but you can't honestly expect me to believe its gonna be a ball over there. There is gonna be a lot of lives lost, we need to stop being the world police for a while and take a break.

Man the day of the trenches are all but over. The day of the nuke is here and that makes it a whole new ballgame. In a few years damn near every one's gonna have at least one. I can only guess but I'm pretty sure DC is #1 on many a nuke list these days.

I personally think that we're currently trying -- albeit without success -- to keep nukes out of the hands of maniacs. Especially the ones that don't care who they sell them to. Nuke power, once in the wrong hands will surely be the end of the world as we know it. No doubt there's gonna be a lot of lives lost but if we wait till later it's only going to be worse...if that's possible.

As far as taking a break, man while we're breaking they'll be arming themselves to the teeth with more bio, chemical and nuclear weapons.

This has to happen whether we like it or not. I say of we're gonna go down, let's go down with one hell of a fight, but that's just me.
 
This is a funny thread. Personally, IMO self interest is the primary motivation factor in the german and french positions rather than morality....however, it is quite ironic that Bush is talking about going out to 'fight for our freedoms and democracy in the world' when the adminstration is stripping it away as fast as it can back home....

BTW, did ANYONE actually read about the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 that was posted here as a sticky?

Those that didn't, I'm fairly disappointed in.... one of the new laws would allow law enforcement to tack on an additional 5 years JUST for using encryption (such as elitemail) during the commission of a crime.

How would you like to do 5 years + for using elitemail to buy gear?

Do any of you really believe that this laughable proposition is going to deter any terrorists? Do you think the threat of 5 years in prison is going to stop a suicide bomber from bombing? Do you think that if a suicide bomber is arrested before carrying out his plan, the measly 5 year penalty for encryption will even be relevant?

Of course not.

Some of you mindless CNN drones need to wake the fuck up. You trust your leaders far, far too much.

And btw, quick correction, Tony Blair is on 'our' *cough puke* side, not the English people... as the 2 million person protest in London indicated.

btw 2: I am personally interested to see how this new 'pre-emptive' policy of removing dictatorial regimes turns out.... if Iraq is successful...Syria..Sudan... may be next...there is IMO a genuine concern about letting nuclear weapons fall into their hands, but I am not convinced that removal and occupation is the only answer...

I am also concerned about this increasing "new world order" globalization...the more condensed power becomes, the harder it is to overthrow, the more potential there is for abuse, and the less options you have when you want to move away from it.
 
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And an important point: One reason we have limits on govermental control is for those times when unfair laws are passed, such as the obvious extremely harsh and unwarranted laws against steroid users such as us. When you let these limitations errode away because you're mesmorized by the Fox News Network, you may just find yourself sitting in a jail cell somewhere because a new law allowed law enforcement to enter your home without notice or hack your computer because you are designated a suspicious individual by the LEAs.
 
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Watson said:
Lets see, I want to get my college paid for, so I think I'll go to the fucking desert, leave my friends and family, eat rations, dodge bullets and bombs, sleep in a tent, get yelled at, hang out with the enemy, and get no pussy for a year. When 95% of the the guys being sent off joined this is not something they had hoped would happen and if you believe that then your a fucking idiot, plain and simple. They said on TV that they wanted to be there and they are having fun!? Of fucking course they said that. They're on national fuckin TV. What do you think they are gonna say "We hate it here, I miss my mommy." Give me a GD break. Some of you guys are so damn brainwashed its pathetic. Hey legacy if your such a badass go enroll tommorow, get your little gun and maybe you and leanycuisiny can meet up in England and head off to good old Iraq and join in on some of the fun all of our troops are having over there. I'll be so jealous of you guys. I got to stay here and work out, damn.

HEY moron--is that why Im getting a 4 year degree from a great university in business and now IM gonna join the military and be in the officer program in the Marines---yea its all about balls and SON you have none---you are a coward plain and simple! And you do not deserve to set foot on American soil because TRUE Americans love to fight and they are tougher than anyone else in the world---they dont run like you!!
 
Well OH fuckin boy, you got your four year fuckin degree and now your gonna fucking die and be qualified. You stupid fuckin fag, where the hell are you from you fuckin faggot ass piece of shit. I'll show you moron you buttfucking piece of shit faggot. Take your four year degree and shove it up your fucking ass you god damn piece of shit. Your four year degree is gonna do you a lot of good when your six feet under. Come down here, you fucking piece, you goddam son of a bitch:

1102 Leah Ave. #112
San Marcos, Tx 78666

Come on down you piece of shit, I'm not a man? Theres my fuckin address you goddam cocksucker.

Don't worry about giving me yours because I've been fucking your mom for a couple of months now.

Oh, and damn she's got some good pussy, you cocksucking piece.

Oh, and leanycuisiny, fuck you bitch, your a disgrace to the English people. YOU LIKE THAT MOTHERFUCKER? WELL, THERE'S MY ADDRESS FUCKASS. BRING IT ON COCKSUCKER!!!!

"Email me when your down here in London" WHAT? are you fucking retarded? If your a fucking US citizen then come down here like the big man you are and kick my ass you piece of goddam shit. If your not going to then take your US citizenship and stick it up your ass because we got enough losers around here, and we don't need your ass comin over here and havin loser ass babies and contributing to the problem. Stay over there and mind your own fucking business fuckass.
You see me coming to your country trying to fit in and get a citizenship and threatining the REAL people that live there!? Fuck off, theres my address, come make me shutup, if not then don't even bother writing a reply, because you have no fucking excuse you fucking cocksucking fag.
 
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Listen, this is what I know...

1. The Twin Towers are gone because of Al Queda
2. Iraq is supporting Al Queda

I don't want a war. But I feel like we should do something about Iraq and their Al Queda connection. It's gonna happen one of two ways:

1. We go into Iraq and take the chances (our military is in the military because they want to defend our country, so stop bitching about sending them to war). That's like saying, I want to be a painter, but I don't want to get any paint on my clothes.

2. We do nothing, time passes and then one day, you wake up and find out that they delivered a nuke to NYC (or anywhere near you), and in NYC's case, AT LEAST HALF THE PEOPLE IN MY LIFE ARE DEAD, DEAD!!!

So, do we go in now and take a chance or do we wait until the next 9/11 and take the loss.

You decide. Oh no, wait, that's Pres. George Bush's decision. Do you think he has any pressure on him?

The man is being patient, what the fuck else can we do. France and Germany wont wake up until the United States gets hit again. And then it's too late.

But that's how it will go down. We wont do shit because of all the pussy bastards in germany, france and even here in the U.S. of A.

And when they do blow up NYC or another city, remember this thread. We have been warned, the warning was 9/11. I was there. Watching NYC burn. I don't want to ever see that happen again. But it will, because of France, Germany, and some of you fucking morons in the USA.

You say what?????
 
All of you have made up your minds but think about the people that were on the upper floors of the trade center... their choice...
JUMP or BURN ALIVE!

Do you wanna have to make that choice one day? I didn't FUCKIN think so.
 
Frackal said:
Some of you mindless CNN drones need to wake the fuck up. You trust your leaders far, far too much.

lol.

I think Bush is a stand up guy. As far as trusting our leaders is there very much we can do about it? I know, vote, but it's not like we've got many choices. IMO the best person won last election.

I've posted before about my frustration and distrust with "the system," however, if anyone thinks Bush is behind it all you better think again. Nope, it's money: big, mulitnational, fat-rich money mongering corporations.

:)
 
Excellent post! I agree wholeheartliy. Fuck them all.

We should stop giving aid just about every damn country aroudn the world and focus on our children and our people.
Do any of you know ho much money is given to other countries by the US and what is returned for the favor.

We need to stop being so damn politically correct and call it as it is and deal it. These politically correct assholes are ruining our people and out Great Country!
 
Well this thread contains some good points and some over exaggerations. I personally don't like Bush, I think he is a fine example of nepotism at it's worst. A sad proof that even in America it is better to be born into "royalty" than to be born intelligent. If anyone believes Bush would be our president today without his father and his family conncections they are deluded. At best he would be a mid level manager of some business. It is a sad commentary on our two party political system that the only two people who had a chance to run the greatest, most powerful nation in the world were he and Gore. You cannot with a straight face tell them that these are the two wisest American citizens. Colin Powell with his record of military service and virtue shames them both.
But to characterize Bush as a Hitler is excessive. The only thing he is truly guilty of is being a pawn in the erosion of our freedoms, giving gvt agencies FAR too much power. What makes America so great is the freedoms afforded to its citizens. The people of America need to wake up and realize that all these people in office are our fucking employees, they work for us and are even paid by us. Instead of acting like public employees they put themselves above us and strip our freedoms. How dare we elect people to take our freedom away. This is the most asinine thing I have ever heard of a population doing. Usually freedom is stripped from a populace by force, not by the citizens voting for less of it.
As for Sadaam Hussein, fuck him. The power he wields is virtually insignificant compared to our military might. He knows this. He wants to remain in power, not take the U.S. down. He would be unlikely to fund terrorism against our country as any connection to him and a 9/11 like event would provoke a public outcry so loud we would bomb Baghdad into a parking lot. No connection to him and terrorism has been established nor will it be. He would rather stay in power than fuck with the U.S., he doesn't have any desire to me a Muslim martyr.
As for the French fuck 'em. They step on our toes everytime. Yes the British are our hommies. I don't think we should have taken the Iraq situation this far but we have. Time to finish it. Let's get this sick fuck out of power and get the economy rolling. with the Iraq situation resolved there is an excellent chance for rapid economic recovery. I applaud Bush though for having the balls to tell the world to go fuck themselves. We're the biggest and the baddest and the biggest and the baddest gets to make the rules. Just my thoughts.
 
Very good post, excellent point on the freedoms, I keep wanting to remind people of that...public servants ARE public servants...how dare they act as our rulers.
 
Frackal I've followed your posts on the erosion of our freedoms and think likewise. I wish more people would wake up and understand what we do. We should not live in terror or subjugation, according to the CONSTITUTION of our nation these fucks are our employees. It is sad to witness this nation becoming a police state. Even sadder that people accept it.
 
leancuisine your inbreeding is over shadowed only by your own ignorance, I know your a real tough guy, you ball less LITTLE prick.

40butpumping I totally disagree with your stand on this issue, but never the less I know you to be a good bro, and respect your opinion, although I do not agree with it. I feel that nukes have fallen into the wrong hands, those of our current admin.

Those that have given my views support I thank you, so will others when the shit hits the fan, maybe some of the bling will begin to see. As for 9-11, who's fucking watch did it occur on.
 
bmit, I was with you until the end of your post. I don't think we have any business in Iraq. For those who think a war in Iraq actually has anything to do with "terrorism", wake up. It's about politics and oil.

This isn't going to be another Persian Gulf. It's going to be another Vietnam. Just wait for the Battle of Baghdad. Baghdad is a city the size of Los Angeles. How many innocent Iraqi civilians are going to be killed in the name of stopping "terrorism."

Please, if we want to end terrorism, we need look no further than Washington, D.C.

All hail Emperor Bush II, international terrorist extraordinaire.
 
As the greatest country in the world, our task now is not to fix the blame for the past, but the course for the future. We are the leaders, all others - the followers.
That is why we will always be feared, and fear breads envy. Our feeding hand will always be bitten.
And for all you pacifists out there: Leadership is action, not position. And US of A will act and unleash hell if needed.
 
Watson said:
Well OH fuckin boy, you got your four year fuckin degree and now your gonna fucking die and be qualified. You stupid fuckin fag, where the hell are you from you fuckin faggot ass piece of shit. I'll show you moron you buttfucking piece of shit faggot. Take your four year degree and shove it up your fucking ass you god damn piece of shit. Your four year degree is gonna do you a lot of good when your six feet under. Come down here, you fucking piece, you goddam son of a bitch:

1102 Leah Ave. #112
San Marcos, Tx 78666

Come on down you piece of shit, I'm not a man? Theres my fuckin address you goddam cocksucker.

Don't worry about giving me yours because I've been fucking your mom for a couple of months now.

Oh, and damn she's got some good pussy, you cocksucking piece.

Oh no--Ive made a 16 yr old mad who thinks he has balls by giving a address but sits on his ass and complains at the TV..Yea idiot like im gonna drive from So. Cal to Texas to beat up a 16 year. PLus I have spring football so i dont feel like putting my 255lb foot up some dirtbags ass and waste my time. I bet you dropped outta school and now you live with your parents and work at McDonalds you coward
 
Watson said:
Well OH fuckin boy, you got your four year fuckin degree and now your gonna fucking die and be qualified. You stupid fuckin fag, where the hell are you from you fuckin faggot ass piece of shit. I'll show you moron you buttfucking piece of shit faggot. Take your four year degree and shove it up your fucking ass you god damn piece of shit. Your four year degree is gonna do you a lot of good when your six feet under. Come down here, you fucking piece, you goddam son of a bitch:

1102 Leah Ave. #112
San Marcos, Tx 78666

Come on down you piece of shit, I'm not a man? Theres my fuckin address you goddam cocksucker.

Don't worry about giving me yours because I've been fucking your mom for a couple of months now.

Oh, and damn she's got some good pussy, you cocksucking piece.

Oh no--Ive made a 16 yr old mad who thinks he has balls by giving a address but sits on his ass and complains at the TV..Yea idiot like im gonna drive from So. Cal to Texas to beat up a 16 year old. PLus I have spring football so i dont feel like putting my 255lb foot up some dirtbags ass and waste my time. I bet you dropped outta school and now you live with your parents and work at McDonalds you coward
 
Now that everyone's happy and we're all getting along...

:dance2:

One thing's for sure bro's, when the shit really hits the fan, we're all gonna be on the same side, and I'm not just talking to the bro's in the US.

:garza:

Some of you guys have differing opinions than I but I'll be damned if I'm gonna want to kill you over it.

:beer:
 
slobberknocker said:
bmit, I was with you until the end of your post. I don't think we have any business in Iraq. For those who think a war in Iraq actually has anything to do with "terrorism", wake up. It's about politics and oil.

This isn't going to be another Persian Gulf. It's going to be another Vietnam. Just wait for the Battle of Baghdad. Baghdad is a city the size of Los Angeles. How many innocent Iraqi civilians are going to be killed in the name of stopping "terrorism."

Please, if we want to end terrorism, we need look no further than Washington, D.C.

All hail Emperor Bush II, international terrorist extraordinaire.


You're an idiot. A war on Iraq would be to disarm them of weapons of mass destruction. Iraq is in violation of a UN treaty,for possessing such arms. They've had 12yrs to disarm.
If Iraqi civilians die in this potential war it will be by the hands of SODAMN INSANE ! Innocent civilians are not the target! Saddam's regime is. But you can be damn sure that Saddam will use his own people as pawns in a war. He's done it before...
 
sergio said:



You're an idiot. A war on Iraq would be to disarm them of weapons of mass destruction. Iraq is in violation of a UN treaty,for possessing such arms. They've had 12yrs to disarm.
If Iraqi civilians die in this potential war it will be by the hands of SODAMN INSANE ! Innocent civilians are not the target! Saddam's regime is. But you can be damn sure that Saddam will use his own people as pawns in a war. He's done it before...

There are more country's than Iraq that are in violation and through out history what has happened to them. Do a search and see how one particular country has been in violation of UN policies for over 25 years!
 
We should have killed Sadam when we had him hurt in a bunker during Desert Storm.

Why didn't we kill him then and end this, anyone know, I don't.
 
This is an insult to our whole nation as a whole. Anyone who is not willing to go to war for our nation should get the fuck out. Our forefathers fought bled and died to give us freedom. We are now abusing the freedoms they have worked so hard to give us. This bashing or president and our nation makes me sick. Is this what our founders wanted? To give us the right to ruin our own country internally? Come on guys. Stand up for whats right.

If you are not for this war, them simply let it be. No one is forced to go to war at this point. When a person joines the armed forces, they join knowing they might have to go to war. They willingly made that decision so let them be. And for all you guys who say this war is nothign but oil, what is the problem for that. We need as much as we can get. We use enough so why not stock up on it.

And as for comparing Bush to Hitler is sheer stupidity. If Hitler was our leader the problem would have been solved a long time ago. Kill them he woulda said. End of story. I am not condoning hitlers actions but he had BALLS. A few more of us should grow them and stand up to those who threaten us. Talking only gets you so far. Sooner or later fists start to fly. Lets not get sucker punched again. Why dont we hit first for a change. 1 shot is all we need.
God bless America
 
granby140 This is an insult to our whole nation as a whole. Anyone who is not willing to go to war for our nation should get the fuck out. Our forefathers fought bled and died to give us freedom. We are now abusing the freedoms they have worked so hard to give us. This bashing or president and our nation makes me sick. Is this what our founders wanted? To give us the right to ruin our own country internally? Come on guys. Stand up for whats right.

If you are not for this war, them simply let it be. No one is forced to go to war at this point. When a person joines the armed forces, they join knowing they might have to go to war. They willingly made that decision so let them be. And for all you guys who say this war is nothign but oil, what is the problem for that. We need as much as we can get. We use enough so why not stock up on it.

And as for comparing Bush to Hitler is sheer stupidity. If Hitler was our leader the problem would have been solved a long time ago. Kill them he woulda said. End of story. I am not condoning hitlers actions but he had BALLS. A few more of us should grow them and stand up to those who threaten us. Talking only gets you so far. Sooner or later fists start to fly. Lets not get sucker punched again. Why dont we hit first for a change. 1 shot is all we need.
God bless America


granby, unless you are currently in the military or have recently enlisted, you are talking through your ass, it is easy to talk like a tough shit when others are about to die, in your place.
 
LOL exactly - hey granby, you must not know much about our 'forefathers' do you? If you did, you'd realize that the last thing they would want for us is to NOT question our government and blindly follow it, even when the civil rights that they and others fought to protect are being chiseled away....

In truth, your post is nothing but un-thought out, mindless, generic crap, the same rheteroic you'd hear from a million other Americans....it's meaningless because no thought was behind it...


Oh and granby, I ask again, when talking about threats, what about bin laden? Remember bush after 9/11? "Dead or alive"?
Now he says he doesnt really care where he is?

You really think saddam is a bigger threat than him?
 
sergio said:



You're an idiot. A war on Iraq would be to disarm them of weapons of mass destruction. Iraq is in violation of a UN treaty,for possessing such arms. They've had 12yrs to disarm.
If Iraqi civilians die in this potential war it will be by the hands of SODAMN INSANE ! Innocent civilians are not the target! Saddam's regime is. But you can be damn sure that Saddam will use his own people as pawns in a war. He's done it before...

I'm fucking sick and tired of hearing this bullshit over and over and over again about the need to go to war with Iraq because they possess weapons of mass destruction and have violated the UN resolutions. What a weak fucking arguement. SO FUCKING WHAT? Why don't we go after Isreal too!! HUH?

Israel Is Researching and Producing WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.

United Nations inspectors MUST BE ADMITTED TO ISRAEL to begin the dismantling of Israel's stockpiles of Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Israel has:

1). Nuclear Weapons.

2). Evidence of Israel's Nerve Gas Program found in Amsterdam Plane crash.

3). Israel's Biological Warfare Program.


UN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992


Note that Israel is still in VIOLATION of many of these Resolutions.

Resolution 106: "...'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid"

Resolution 111: "...'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"

Resolution 127: "...'recommends' Israel suspend its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem"

Resolution 162: "...'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions"

Resolution 171: "....determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria"

Resolution 228: "...'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"

Resolution 237: "...'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"

Resolution 248: "...'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"

Resolution 250: "...'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem"

Resolution 251: "...'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"

Resolution 252: "...'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"

Resolution 256: "...'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation"

Resolution 259: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"

Resolution 262: "...'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport"

Resolution 265: "...'condemns' Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"

Resolution 267: "...'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"

Resolution 270: "...'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon"

Resolution 271: "...'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem"

Resolution 279: "...'demands' withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"

Resolution 280: "...'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon"

Resolution 285: "...'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"

Resolution 298: "...'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem"

Resolution 313: "...'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"

Resolution 316: "...'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"

Resolution 317: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"

Resolution 332: "...'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon"

Resolution 337: "...'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty"

Resolution 347: "...'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon"

Resolution 425: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"

Resolution 427: "...'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon"

Resolution 444: "...'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"

Resolution 446: "...'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"

Resolution 450: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"

Resolution 452: "...'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"

Resolution 465: "...'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program"

Resolution 467: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon"

Resolution 468: "...'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"

Resolution 469: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians"

Resolution 471: "...'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"

Resolution 476: "...'reiterates' that Israel's claims to Jerusalem are 'null and void'"

Resolution 478: "...'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'"

Resolution 484: "...'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"

Resolution 487: "...'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility"

Resolution 497: "...'decides' that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith"

Resolution 498: "...'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"

Resolution 501: "...'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"

Resolution 509: "...'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"

Resolution 515: "...'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"

Resolution 517: "...'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"

Resolution 518: "...'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"

Resolution 520: "...'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut"

Resolution 573: "...'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters"

Resolution 587: "...'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"

Resolution 592: "...'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops"

Resolution 605: "...'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians"

Resolution 607: "...'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"

Resolution 608: "...'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"

Resolution 636: "...'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians"

Resolution 641: "...'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians"

Resolution 672: "...'condemns' Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount"

Resolution 673: "...'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations"

Resolution 681: "...'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians"

Resolution 694: "...'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return"

Resolution 726: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians"

Resolution 799: "...'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return."


(From Findley's Deliberate Deceptions, 1998 pages 188 - 192)

The following are the resolutions vetoed by the United States during the period of September, 1972, to May, 1990 to protect Israel from council criticism:

"....condemned Israel's attack against Southern against southern Lebanon and Syria..."

"....affirmed the rights of the Palestinian people to self-determination, statehood and equal protections..."

"....condemned Israel's air strikes and attacks in southern Lebanon and its murder of innocent civilians..."

"....called for self-determination of Palestinian people..."

"....deplored Israel's altering of the status of Jerusalem, which is recognized as an international city by most world nations and the
United Nations..."

"....affirmed the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people..."

"....endorsed self-determination for the Palestinian people..."

"....demanded Israel's withdrawal from the Golan Heights..."

"....condemned Israel's mistreatment of Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip and its refusal to abide by the Geneva
convention protocols of civilized nations..."

"....condemned an Israeli soldier who shot eleven Moslem worshippers at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount near Al-Aqsa Mosque in the Old City of Jerusalem..."

"....urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Lebanon..."

"....urged sanctions against Israel if it did not withdraw from its invasion of Beirut..."

"....urged cutoff of economic aid to Israel if it refused to withdraw from its occupation of Lebanon..."

"....condemned continued Israeli settlements in occupied territories in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, denouncing them as an obstacle to peace..."

"....deplores Israel's brutal massacre of Arabs in Lebanon and urges its withdrawal..."

"....condemned Israeli brutality in southern Lebanon and denounced the Israeli 'Iron Fist' policy of repression...."

"....denounced Israel's violation of human rights in the occupied territories..."

"....deplored Israel's violence in southern Lebanon..."

"....deplored Israel's activities in occupied Arab East Jerusalem that threatened the sanctity of Muslim holy sites..."

"....condemned Israel's hijacking of a Libyan passenger airplane..."

"....deplored Israel's attacks against Lebanon and its measures and practices against the civilian population of Lebanon..."

"....called on Israel to abandon its policies against the Palestinian intifada that violated the rights of occupied Palestinians, to abide by the Fourth Geneva Conventions, and to formalize a leading role for the United Nations in future peace negotiations..."

"....urged Israel to accept back deported Palestinians, condemned Israel's shooting of civilians, called on Israel to uphold the Fourth Geneva Convention, and called for a peace settlement under UN auspices..."

"....condemned Israel's... incursion into Lebanon..."

"....deplored Israel's... commando raids on Lebanon..."

"....deplored Israel's repression of the Palestinian intifada and called on Israel to respect the human rights of the Palestinians..."

"....deplored Israel's violation of the human rights of the Palestinians..."

"....demanded that Israel return property confiscated from Palestinians during a tax protest and allow a fact-finding mission to observe Israel's crackdown on the Palestinian intifada..."

"....called for a fact-finding mission on abuses against Palestinians in Israeli-occupied lands..."
 
Yes we should question our government. But never should we talk the shit about it that we are now. If you do not like what our great nation is doing, then simply get the fuck out.
 
Freakmonster- the US is coming down harder on Iraq because Saddam is a known tyrrant, and his dictatorship is responsible for taking hundreds of thousands of lives,not to mention links to terrorist organizations. He's USED weapons of mass destruction on his own people,the Kurds, and other neighbouring countries.
The war between Israel and the Palestinians goes back almost 200 yrs, looks like they'll never resolve anything...
Heck, the whole friggin' middle east is a mess....
 
granby140 said:
Yes we should question our government. But never should we talk the shit about it that we are now. If you do not like what our great nation is doing, then simply get the fuck out.


Man you are one dense, brainwashed individual.... THE ONLY THING THAT KEEPS THIS NATION IN THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE, AND NOT A DICTATORIAL REGIME IS THIS SORT OF DISCUSSION.
 
sergio said:
Freakmonster- the US is coming down harder on Iraq because Saddam is a known tyrrant,

A weak arguement. There are also other dictators who are known tyrants. Madeline Albright when asked a few years ago on US television whether the death of 500,000 Iraqichildren as a result of UN sanctions was a price worth paying, she replied 'Yes I believe it was a price worth paying'. The real acid test on whether the West conforms to this doctrine of an ethical foreign policy is to look at the West's current allies in the 'War on Terror'.
This reveals several unsavoury people like Islam Karimov the butcher of Tashkent who routinely kills and imprisons his political opponents. While Baghdad anticipates the imminent prospects of cruise missiles, F16's and carpet bombing Tashkent expects with bated breath, bumper US aid packages, more IMF loans and further encouragement in its crackdown on Islamic groups.


and his dictatorship is responsible for taking hundreds of thousands of lives,not to mention links to terrorist organizations. He's USED weapons of mass destruction on his own people,the Kurds, and other neighbouring countries.
First I see you've been brainwashed into thinking that there is a link between Iraq and Al Queda. You must have missed the numerous claims by both the CIA and FBI that they found no LINK between the two. Also Saddam does not gain anything by aligning himself with Al Queda.

Your next claim is that Saddam Hussein is a special case in that he has a track record of using his WMD's on his own citizens as well as previous experience of invading his neighbours. However the use of WMD's and invading other countries is not confined to Saddam and the same accusation can be legitimately applied at the US, Britain or Israel . So in need of a convincing argument Britain and America prophesise that Iraq could develop nuclear weapons within months and then pass these over to groups such as Al Qaeda. This latter argument gives rise to the new neo conservative thinking within the Bush White House which states that pre-emption is a perfectly acceptable political and military doctrine especially after 9/11 which they say has changed the international and security landscape.The advocators of this doctrine or as some have described the real 'axis of evil' are Defence Secretary Rumsfeld, Vice President Cheney and Deputy Defence Secretary Wolfowitz. They believe in the absolute superiority of the United States and the fact that multilateral and international Institutions such as the UN are constraints on the US acting in her own national interests. Consequently they believe a pre-emptive attack on Iraq is not only justified but imperative. No wonder that even European diplomats believe that the lunatics have now taken over the asylum. The issue with pre-emption as many have pointed out is that it can only be carried out it seems by the United States or its allies. Under similar circumstances a Syrian and Egyptian attack on Israel would equally be justified. Israel has WMD's, has invaded its neighbours and remains a menace, violates international law and onventions, oppresses its own people and is led by a brutal leader who has been implicated in war crimes. This argument also conveniently ignores the fact that Iraq's past aggressions have not only be done with the West looking on but have been done with the latter's tacit approval. The Iraqi president has no track record of acting alone as even the invasion of Kuwait shows, where the US ambassador's wink and nod were well understood.
 
Last edited:
FreakMonster said:

A weak arguement. There are also other dictators who are known tyrants. Madeline Albright when asked a few years ago on US television whether the death of 500,000 Iraqichildren as a result of UN sanctions was a price worth paying, she replied 'Yes I believe it was a price worth paying'. The real acid test on whether the West conforms to this doctrine of an ethical foreign policy is to look at the West's current allies in the 'War on Terror'.
This reveals several unsavoury people like Islam Karimov the butcher of Tashkent who routinely kills and imprisons his political opponents. While Baghdad anticipates the imminent prospects of cruise missiles, F16's and carpet bombing Tashkent expects with bated breath, bumper US aid packages, more IMF loans and further encouragement in its crackdown on Islamic groups.



First I see you've been brainwashed into thinking that there is a link between Iraq and Al Queda. You must have missed the numerous claims by both the CIA and FBI that they found no LINK between the two. Also Saddam does not gain anything by aligning himself with Al Queda.

Your next claim is that Saddam Hussein is a special case in that he has a track record of using his WMD's on his own citizens as well as previous experience of invading his neighbours. However the use of WMD's and invading other countries is not confined to Saddam and the same accusation can be legitimately applied at the US, Britain or Israel . So in need of a convincing argument Britain and America prophesise that Iraq could develop nuclear weapons within months and then pass these over to groups such as Al Qaeda. This latter argument gives rise to the new neo conservative thinking within the Bush White House which states that pre-emption is a perfectly acceptable political and military doctrine especially after 9/11 which they say has changed the international and security landscape.The advocators of this doctrine or as some have described the real 'axis of evil' are Defence Secretary Rumsfeld, Vice President Cheney and Deputy Defence Secretary Wolfowitz. They believe in the absolute superiority of the United States and the fact that multilateral and international Institutions such as the UN are constraints on the US acting in her own national interests. Consequently they believe a pre-emptive attack on Iraq is not only justified but imperative. No wonder that even European diplomats believe that the lunatics have now taken over the asylum. The issue with pre-emption as many have pointed out is that it can only be carried out it seems by the United States or its allies. Under similar circumstances a Syrian and Egyptian attack on Israel would equally be justified. Israel has WMD's, has invaded its neighbours and remains a menace, violates international law and onventions, oppresses its own people and is led by a brutal leader who has been implicated in war crimes. This argument also conveniently ignores the fact that Iraq's past aggressions have not only be done with the West looking on but have been done with the latter's tacit approval. The Iraqi president has no track record of acting alone as even the invasion of Kuwait shows, where the US ambassador's wink and nod were well understood.

The UN is responsible for the lives of 500,000 Iraqi children? Yea...whatever...
Any harm that comes to the Iraqi people is a direct result of Saddam's actions. He cares nothing about his own people, just his desire to stay in power. He routinely executes members of other political parties who try to rise up against him. He is known to have killed 35 of his family members,some for not wanting to comply with him.
He rules with fear. He has the strength of the military. His own people are afraid of him. They are an oppressed people. They need to be liberated..
Of course Freakmonster, you already know all this,Saddam is one of many tyrants, but the UN can only handle one of them at a time it seems...
And as far as your comparison of Iraq's actions to those of the US, Britain in the past....BIG DIFFERENCE..the US does not try to conquer other countries, nor control their own people with an iron fist. All they're trying to do is defend themselves and other nations from tyrants and terrorist groups. I think it's a noble cause.
This is not about politics/oil, but about freedom and security
 
ahahaha



Bro, you're right about the US 'in recent history' not being as bad as saddam of course...but I think you're way off when you say that this is only about the war on terror.
 
Frackal said:
ahahaha



Bro, you're right about the US 'in recent history' not being as bad as saddam of course...but I think you're way off when you say that this is only about the war on terror.


The US has NEVER been as bad as Saddam. And where did I say it's only about war on terror?
 
I'll support our troops if and when this war takes place, but I won't support our government. I have a lot of friends in the military, and I hope they'll be ok.


I just don't think people realize what this war is really going to be like. This is not going to be another Persian Gulf. We're going to have to besiege Baghdad, and eventually there'll be fighting in the streets of Baghdad. That's nasty stuff right there.


There's 200 thousand troops in the regular Iraqi army. They're pretty much pussies.

Then there's about 100 thousand in the Iraqi Republican guard. They're good troops. They might surrender, but we'd definitely have to beat them decisively.

Finally, there's 30 thousand in Saddam's personal bodyguard. They're hardcore troops. They won't surrender, even if we kill Saddam. We'll probably have to kill all of them.

Again, I hope people aren't underestimating what this war is going to be like.
 
even if this is about oil, what does it matter. We are the greatest nation on earth. Lets stop taking peoples shit and dish some out finally
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but I heard a report that the US only gets 15% of their oil from Iraq, the rest from Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.
 
DEEZEL said:
Listen, this is what I know...

1. The Twin Towers are gone because of Al Queda
2. Iraq is supporting Al Queda

I don't want a war. But I feel like we should do something about Iraq and their Al Queda connection. It's gonna happen one of two ways:

1. We go into Iraq and take the chances (our military is in the military because they want to defend our country, so stop bitching about sending them to war). That's like saying, I want to be a painter, but I don't want to get any paint on my clothes.

2. We do nothing, time passes and then one day, you wake up and find out that they delivered a nuke to NYC (or anywhere near you), and in NYC's case, AT LEAST HALF THE PEOPLE IN MY LIFE ARE DEAD, DEAD!!!

So, do we go in now and take a chance or do we wait until the next 9/11 and take the loss.

You decide. Oh no, wait, that's Pres. George Bush's decision. Do you think he has any pressure on him?

The man is being patient, what the fuck else can we do. France and Germany wont wake up until the United States gets hit again. And then it's too late.

But that's how it will go down. We wont do shit because of all the pussy bastards in germany, france and even here in the U.S. of A.

And when they do blow up NYC or another city, remember this thread. We have been warned, the warning was 9/11. I was there. Watching NYC burn. I don't want to ever see that happen again. But it will, because of France, Germany, and some of you fucking morons in the USA.

You say what?????

Hey, let's blow up some more shit, impoverish a country that we could have easily toppled IF WE WANTED TO 12 years ago, allow our soldiers to be killed on the battlefield, futher alienate ourselves from the world (isolationism NEVER EVER EVER worked), and truly show how hypocritical our country has become (we're less of a democracy than some NON-democratic countries) to the world. All because cokehead Bush can't get the economy back to where it should be. No wait, it is where it should be for his rich buddies. Everyone else gets fucked in the ass by his stupidity.
 
granby140- Yes we should question our government. But never should we talk the shit about it that we are now. If you do not like what our great nation is doing, then simply get the fuck out.

no offense my friend but this is a completely ignorant statement. just because you have been blinded by american ideology does not mean we all have. i suppose if our government found it in their best interest to re-enact the atlantic slave trade you would be first in line. i suppose that you thought the history book you read in high school (doubt you even read that) with the stories of communist vietnam being a threat to national security and our american way of life was all fact. or that christopher columbus was something of a liberator of people and land as opposed to a slave trader that ordered mass murders upon thousands of women and children. i am not a political dissident or against the american way of life but disappointed that so many people allow themselves to be brainwashed by popular belief, media, and our government. the mind is a terrible thing to waste and so far it sounds like you are wasting yours.
foo
 
sergio said:
The UN is responsible for the lives of 500,000 Iraqi children? Yea...whatever...
Any harm that comes to the Iraqi people is a direct result of Saddam's actions. He cares nothing about his own people, just his desire to stay in power. He routinely executes members of other political parties who try to rise up against him. He is known to have killed 35 of his family members,some for not wanting to comply with him.
He rules with fear. He has the strength of the military. His own people are afraid of him. They are an oppressed people. They need to be liberated..
This is another lie by the Bush administration. Did anyone ask the Iraqi people if they wanted to be liberated? There will be no real democracy in Iraq after we invade. If and when we allow Iraq to have a civilian government it'll be appointed by the United States.
"Liberating Kuwait" was not as rewarding as those who took part in the world vs. Iraq war hoped. The economic prosperity which they were promised never actualized. Egypt, Turkey and various Gulf countries are suffocating under economic pressure, of which neither Iraqi President Saddam Hussein nor his alleged "Weapons of Mass Destruction" are factors.
Of course Freakmonster, you already know all this,Saddam is one of many tyrants, but the UN can only handle one of them at a time it seems...
True, It seems we are going after Iraq first because they are weak and will not put up much of a fight. Bush is scared to go after North Korea because he knows it will be a bloody outcome and this will not be good for his re-election.
And as far as your comparison of Iraq's actions to those of the US, Britain in the past....BIG DIFFERENCE..the US does not try to conquer other countries, nor control their own people with an iron fist. All they're trying to do is defend themselves and other nations from tyrants and terrorist groups. I think it's a noble cause.
No the US does not conquer other countries they just topple the current dictator and replace him with a puppet military dictator who only serves the US interests and not the peoples. Our military stays in these countries and dictates how the gov't should be run. Wouldn't you be pissed if China brought their army to the US, tried to tell us how we should run our country, and killed innocent civillians? You would probably hate them!!! Well thats how they feel about us. They HATE US because in country after country, our government has thwarted democracy, stifled freedom and trampled human rights. And that's why we're the target of terrorists.
People in Canada enjoy democracy, freedom and human rights. So do the people of Norway and Sweden. Have you heard of Canadian embassies being bombed? Or Norwegian, or Swedish?


This is not about politics/oil, but about freedom and security
Oil is only a small part of why we are going to war. We are going to war because:
1. It seems that only US officials believe that "taking Saddam out" is a good idea. The world however, has matured enough in the last 10 years to realize that Saddam is only an "evil figure" used by the US government to recalculate bad policies that no one approves of.
2. To protect Israel
3. To create permanent military bases in that country from which to control and dominate the Middle East, including neighboring Iran.
4. Bush and Cheney will be padding their bank accounts through the Carlyle Group and Hallliburton.
5. Saddam found a non-sanctioned way to stick it to us.
6. They hate us!!!!
 
Listen Freak. Believe whatever you want. Your anti US sentiment is clear.
Of course the Iraqi people want to be liberated, they live a meager existence, no economy to speak of,no infrastructure, no voice, have very few rights/opportunities, rely on the military for handouts of loafs of fuckin' bread.
These people would be envious of trailer parks and how good we have it here in the west.
Saddam is pouring every cent into a stronger military/arms and leaving nothing for his people, but an opportunity to join the military.
Obviously a nation under a dictatorship does not work and benefits very few. I believe there will never be world peace until there is democracy in every country. Democracy may not be the perfect system, but it's a hell of a lot better than any other.
You think the US interferes in other countries affairs for their own interests? Let me remind you that it takes millions of $ to send troops overseas and keep them there. Not to mention the billions of $ of foreign aid which they contribute yearly and get nothing in return except maybe better relations.
The US military do not occupy other countries to dictate anything. They are there to protect US embassies/embassadors, especially in hostile countries where there is political unrest.
China does have an embassy in the US, as all countries do, and the reason they don't have a military presence is because they know they are safe here.

But you're right , we should not have interfered in stopping Hitler from taking over Europe..that was a mistake.

This conversation is over.
 
sergio said:
Listen Freak. Believe whatever you want. Your anti US sentiment is clear.

That's funny!!! Every time someone like you is losing a debate you resort to their anti-US sentiment. I'm just telling it like it is. The US is obviously looking to become the world superpower for a long time by increasing it's military power.
Have you heard of the National Security Strategy? It's a document in which each administration outlines its approach to defending the country. It envisions the creation and enforcement of what they call a worldwide "Pax Americana," or American peace. To address the terrorism threat, the president's report lays out a newly aggressive military and foreign policy, embracing pre-emptive attack against perceived enemies. It speaks in blunt terms of what it calls "American internationalism," of ignoring international opinion if that suits U.S. interests. "The best defense is a good offense," the document asserts. So basically this is good for both of us. I'm not complaining here, I'm just telling you that all this may benefit us in the future. So I really don't see where your anti-US sentiment comments are coming from. And we are definitely not stopping with Iraq. Syria, Yemen, Iran, and hopefully Saudi Arabia are next on the list.


Of course the Iraqi people want to be liberated, they live a meager existence, no economy to speak of,no infrastructure, no voice, have very few rights/opportunities, rely on the military for handouts of loafs of fuckin' bread.
These people would be envious of trailer parks and how good we have it here in the west.
Wow you obviously know what the Iraqi people want since you asked them personally. LOL
This notion of “liberating” the people of Iraq is a people friendly way of justifying the war. A regime change in Baghdad is not part of any U.N. directive. We should ask ourselves, what right do we have to rip apart a country so we can establish a form of government that we like? We cannot assume that the people of Iraq are on their knees begging for us to bring them democracy. The people of Iraq could rise up on their own against Saddam Hussein.
You think the US interferes in other countries affairs for their own interests? Let me remind you that it takes millions of $ to send troops overseas and keep them there. Not to mention the billions of $ of foreign aid which they contribute yearly and get nothing in return except maybe better relations.
The US military do not occupy other countries to dictate anything. They are there to protect US embassies/embassadors, especially in hostile countries where there is political unrest.
China does have an embassy in the US, as all countries do, and the reason they don't have a military presence is because they know they are safe here.

But you're right , we should not have interfered in stopping Hitler from taking over Europe..that was a mistake.

This conversation is over.

The US interferes with other countries affairs all the time. This is not something new!! We did it in Iran when the U.S. Marines and the CIA deposed Mossadegh because he wanted to nationalize the oil industry. We replaced him with the Shah and armed, trained and paid his hated Savak national guard, which enslaved and brutalized the people of Iran -- all to protect the financial interests of our oil companies. Is it any wonder that there are people in Iran who hate us? We did it in Chile. We did it in Vietnam. More recently, we tried to do it in Iraq.
And, of course, how many times have we done it in Nicaragua and all the other banana republics of Latin America? Time after time we have ousted popular leaders who wanted the riches of the land to be shared by the people who worked it. We replaced them with murderous tyrants who would sell out their own people so the wealth of the land could be taken out by the likes of Domino Sugar, the United Fruit Company, Folgers and Chiquita Banana. I could go on and on but you probably get the point. If you think we are just there to protect our embassies then I suggest you stop watching CNN.
 
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There are many american patroits in this thread myself included, but it is really hard to argue against the hard facts that Frackel and Freakmonster have presented, if your a thinking individual and not a zombie indoctrined to the religious right's false philosphy. I do not think that this country has ever faced the threats that it does today, except at the epitome of the cold war, i.e. Cuban crisis, nukes on our doorstep, I worry that our greatest threat is a small handful of our own hawk like leaders and not Saddam. I also think that N. Koerea poses far more of a menace than Iraq ever could. N. Koerea wants to start talks with the U.S. but Bush won't talk, what's up with that? Bush wants to send special forces into the Phillipines on combat search and destroy missions why, who are we protecting, who asked for help? In 1991 we had 500,000 troops in the gulf today we have 181,000 to go against a better perpared Iraqi force who may recieve alot of help from other muslim nations. All this shit defies reason.
 
I agree with liftsiron. Frachal and freakmonster have presented some very strong points.
so what does are gov't due now? Pull out of Iraq?
I think not.. We are to for in this to pull out now. some type of military altercation is inevitable at this point.
 
Rednesz said:
I agree with liftsiron. Frachal and freakmonster have presented some very strong points.
so what does are gov't due now? Pull out of Iraq?
I think not.. We are to for in this to pull out now. some type of military altercation is inevitable at this point.

We won't be pulling out. This war has been in the planning for many months. Iraq is just our first stop in the path to a global empire. The question is if this is good or bad for us?

Also Bush doesn't have to explain shit to us why we are invading Iraq. Have you read Bush at War by Bob Woodard When he asked the president whether he ever felt that he needed to explain anything as he planned a possible attack on Iraq, Bush replied, “Of course not. . . . I’m the commander — see, I don’t need to explain — I don’t need to explain why I say things. That’s the interesting thing about being the president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, I don’t feel like I owe anybody an explanation.”
What remains of the traditional conception of limited, constitutional government with separation of powers and Congressional responsibility for declarations of war when the president of the United States believes that he owes no one any explanation for what he says or does when it comes to military conflict?
 
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Freak,

Very interesting, I have read a good portion of Bush at War....during reading it I began to really wonder about the book...it was written more like a storybook than an actual recount of facts....so I did some digging....

What I found was VERY interesting.... before Bob Woodward was a lowly reporter who 'lucked out' with the watergate scoop, he was a HIGH level naval intelligence officer, who briefed top level officials and brushed shoulders with the likes of Henry Kissinger...

I'll try to find the article for you... my guess is that woodward is NOT simply a reporter, but a paid asset....
 
FreakMonster said:


Also Bush doesn't have to explain shit to us why we are invading Iraq. Have you read Bush at War by Bob Woodard When he asked the president whether he ever felt that he needed to explain anything as he planned a possible attack on Iraq, Bush replied, “Of course not. . . . I’m the commander — see, I don’t need to explain — I don’t need to explain why I say things. That’s the interesting thing about being the president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, I don’t feel like I owe anybody an explanation.”


That really scares me. Is it too late to recount the votes again?
 
FreakMonster said:

That's funny!!! Every time someone like you is losing a debate you resort to their anti-US sentiment. I'm just telling it like it is. The US is obviously looking to become the world superpower for a long time by increasing it's military power.
Have you heard of the National Security Strategy? It's a document in which each administration outlines its approach to defending the country. It envisions the creation and enforcement of what they call a worldwide "Pax Americana," or American peace. To address the terrorism threat, the president's report lays out a newly aggressive military and foreign policy, embracing pre-emptive attack against perceived enemies. It speaks in blunt terms of what it calls "American internationalism," of ignoring international opinion if that suits U.S. interests. "The best defense is a good offense," the document asserts. So basically this is good for both of us. I'm not complaining here, I'm just telling you that all this may benefit us in the future. So I really don't see where your anti-US sentiment comments are coming from. And we are definitely not stopping with Iraq. Syria, Yemen, Iran, and hopefully Saudi Arabia are next on the list.



Wow you obviously know what the Iraqi people want since you asked them personally. LOL
This notion of “liberating” the people of Iraq is a people friendly way of justifying the war. A regime change in Baghdad is not part of any U.N. directive. We should ask ourselves, what right do we have to rip apart a country so we can establish a form of government that we like? We cannot assume that the people of Iraq are on their knees begging for us to bring them democracy. The people of Iraq could rise up on their own against Saddam Hussein.


The US interferes with other countries affairs all the time. This is not something new!! We did it in Iran when the U.S. Marines and the CIA deposed Mossadegh because he wanted to nationalize the oil industry. We replaced him with the Shah and armed, trained and paid his hated Savak national guard, which enslaved and brutalized the people of Iran -- all to protect the financial interests of our oil companies. Is it any wonder that there are people in Iran who hate us? We did it in Chile. We did it in Vietnam. More recently, we tried to do it in Iraq.
And, of course, how many times have we done it in Nicaragua and all the other banana republics of Latin America? Time after time we have ousted popular leaders who wanted the riches of the land to be shared by the people who worked it. We replaced them with murderous tyrants who would sell out their own people so the wealth of the land could be taken out by the likes of Domino Sugar, the United Fruit Company, Folgers and Chiquita Banana. I could go on and on but you probably get the point. If you think we are just there to protect our embassies then I suggest you stop watching CNN.


FM, I think you watch too much Star Trek lol
You and your prime directive of non-interference of developing countries :-)
Stop trying to impress everyone with your rhetoric. Your views are your own, and they're not necessarily the truth.
You stated what right we have to rip a country apart??
That country IS ripped apart ! With the reasons I mentioned in my last post .
And yea, I know what the Iraqi people want ( I'm psychic) They WANT to live in squalor, they LOVE being oppressed, having poor quality of life etc, etc.. you get my point.
Them rising up against Saddam?? Is this a joke? They'd be put to death..and they're not even family !

Btw, I'll stop watching CNN if you stop reading bullshit unauthorized autobiographical books of fictitious conversations with Bush. There's no way he made those comments !! He's more responsible and has better character than that !
 
FM, I think you watch too much Star Trek lol
You and your prime directive of non-interference of developing countries :-)
Stop trying to impress everyone with your rhetoric. Your views are your own, and they're not necessarily the truth.
You stated what right we have to rip a country apart??
That country IS ripped apart ! With the reasons I mentioned in my last post .
And yea, I know what the Iraqi people want ( I'm psychic) They WANT to live in squalor, they LOVE being oppressed, having poor quality of life etc, etc.. you get my point.
Them rising up against Saddam?? Is this a joke? They'd be put to death..and they're not even family !


Today Iraq, tomarrow, the world, I'll do as I please and nobody can stop me , I'm bad I',m one bad ass shit kicking Texan and I'm president of the world. I explain nothing to no one, let's run up the deficit another trillon or so I want to give all my multi-millionaire and billonaire friends another tax cut, fuck education, fuck medicare, fuck soc. sec, fuck any lowlife who dares question me, who earns under a mill a year. I have the mindless minons on my side. I promised them tax cuts, there to stupid to see that only the very rich are getting anything. Fuck I can't believe how fun this job is and how stupid the american populace is. G.B.
 
sergio said:
FM, I think you watch too much Star Trek lol
You and your prime directive of non-interference of developing countries :-)
Stop trying to impress everyone with your rhetoric. Your views are your own, and they're not necessarily the truth.

I'm not trying to impress anyone Sergio, my views are the truth. And my views are shared by many different people around the world. There is increasing recognition that America is moving from Republic to Empire.

I think you need to read "An American Empire!" by Richard M. Ebeling, shows Garet Garrett's diagnosis of American empire in 1953 as conforming to these qualities:

"First, the executive power of the government becomes increasingly dominant."
(We have seen that with the presidential order, the accrual by the executive branch of the power to declare war, the increasing irrelevance of Congress as federal agencies like DHS, the FBI, CIA, the new IAI--all become more prominent in the nation's affairs.)

"Second, domestic-policy issues become increasingly subordinate to foreign-policy matters."
(Iraq; the Middle East; geopolitics; America as the world's policeman; the UN. Foreign intervention creates enemies, and Americans are then asked--nay, told--to hand over some of their liberties as a result of consequent, yet avoidable, danger.)

"Third, Empire threatens to result in the ascendancy of the military mind over the civilian mind."
(The ascent of the military; the increasing centralization of government power in the hands of the federal government.)

"Fourth, Empire creates a system of satellite nations."
(For example: Kuwait before Gulf War I as a client state of America. U.S. troops are stationed in S. Korea, which then becomes a tripwire for U.S. involvement in the event of a N. Korean invasion.)

"Fifth, Empire brings with it both arrogance and fear among the imperial people."
(I hate to say it, but I see arrogance, hubris, and contempt expressed on this very Web site by American chauvinists. Not all of you are this way, but it is noticeable. Fear expresses itself in the irrational dread that Iraq can actually hurt America, or that 9/11--as horrifying as it was--was bad enough to justify placing the destinies of American citizens in the hands of an increasingly tyrannical regime in Washington.)

"And, finally, Empire creates the illusion that a nation is a prisoner of history."
(A sense of inevitability, a sense of mission, a sense of responsibility to address all wrongs in the world at large.)

You can also read Andrew J. Bacevich, in his Sunday article "Iraq policy is latter-day imperialism at work", says that American "grand strategy" consists of these goals:

"First, the imperative of America's mission as vanguard of history"

"Second, the imperative of international openness and integration"

"Third, the imperative of American 'global leadership'"

"Finally, the imperative of military supremacy, maintained in perpetuity"

So you see, my views are shared by many.

You stated what right we have to rip a country apart??
That country IS ripped apart ! With the reasons I mentioned in my last post .
And yea, I know what the Iraqi people want ( I'm psychic) They WANT to live in squalor, they LOVE being oppressed, having poor quality of life etc, etc.. you get my point.
Them rising up against Saddam?? Is this a joke? They'd be put to death..and they're not even family !
They want to get rid of Saddam but they do not want to be bombed!! They feel that they have suffered enough with the sanctions and the constant bombing going on Southern Iraq. All they want is to be LEFT ALONE to live the way that they want to live. Is that too much to ask of the US?


Btw, I'll stop watching CNN if you stop reading bullshit unauthorized autobiographical books of fictitious conversations with Bush. There's no way he made those comments !! He's more responsible and has better character than that !
Read the book!! He did make those comments. Bob Woodard is an author of eight "New York Times" bestsellers. This is hardly fiction. This book is based on hundreds of interviews in the administration. Ask Frackal about Woodard, he's a republican.
 
Sorry Sergio, the Woodward thing is very-Bush friendly...Bush has said worse things than that anyway...Bush granted woodward a 2 hour interview for the book as well.

BTW, the Romans also believed that they always had a 'reason' when they invaded another area. (as I understand it)
 
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