Gaining muscle on a cutting cycle

[junk]

Is it REALLY possible to gain muscle on a cutting cycle?

Biologically it doesn't sound possible. If you are dieting hard and are in a caloric deficient state than your body does not have
the calories and proteins to build muscle tissues. EVEN with the use of steroids it sounds impossible to me. At the best it sounds
to me like you can minimize or stop existing muscle from breaking up to aminos but to gain??

Is it possible? (I'm not talking about the fact that you may look
bigger sometimes when you are in fact smaller but more defined. I am talking about real muscle (not water) gains.

Opinions guys

 

[Gel]

Is it REALLY possible to gain muscle on a cutting cycle?

Someone will flame me for saying this..............

Yes, carbs are not necessary to build muscle so you can increase muscle mass....albeit very slowly.

Cut out too many carbs and you will burn muscle though.

 

[Bulk King]

If you are already a user and did a bulking cycle anytime close to cutting the chances of gaining LBM while cutting is slim. If you have'nt used before or have taken an extended break from AAS then it is a very attainable goal.

 

[satchboogie]

exellent post.

bump

 

[JKerry]

this is kind of a tangent, but if you can get gyno on a cutting cycle, you should be able to gain muscle on a cutting cycle. adding muscle or breast tissue takes resources. so if a body can create breast tissue in a caloric deficit couldn't it also create muscle tissue in a caloric deficit?

if i'm way off base here someone set me straight, i'm certainly not claiming this as a definite fact... just something i've been podering for some time now.

jkerry

 

[faller]

I have heard that primo is great for helping to maintain muscle while cutting at least. And have heard that fina may burn some fat while adding muslce. I haven't tried either though, but it seems possible. You can drop a lot of weight and still grow hair.....lol

 

[Dr. M]

As long as you maintain a postive nitrogen balance, you can gain LBM while still cutting. Eating high protein and extremely low carbs can theoretically do this... of course, something like anavar (probably the best, but also the most expensive) or more commonly primobolan depot can help to shift the nitrogen balance to the positive side, thus preventing most breakdown of muscle tissue.

Of course, this is assuming you create a demand for more LBM by training hard while cutting... if you just sit around, your body will have no need to maintain a positive nitrogen balance, regardless of what you're taking (to a certain extent... I mean, enough Var would probably let you sit around and have positive N...)

-M

 

[junk]

As long as you maintain a postive nitrogen balance, you can gain LBM while still cutting. Eating high protein and extremely low carbs can theoretically do this... of course, something like anavar (probably the best, but also the most expensive) or more commonly primobolan depot can help to shift the nitrogen balance to the positive side, thus preventing most breakdown of muscle tissue.

Of course, this is assuming you create a demand for more LBM by training hard while cutting... if you just sit around, your body will have no need to maintain a positive nitrogen balance, regardless of what you're taking (to a certain extent... I mean, enough Var would probably let you sit around and have positive N...)

-M

Good answer Doc.
So what you're actually saying is that although the body will
be in a considerable caloric deficient situation, it will prefer to use the protein you eat for building muscle rather than use it as energy via Gluconeogenesis ?

 

[AlbinoAssassin]

this is kind of a tangent, but if you can get gyno on a cutting cycle, you should be able to gain muscle on a cutting cycle. adding muscle or breast tissue takes resources. so if a body can create breast tissue in a caloric deficit couldn't it also create muscle tissue in a caloric deficit?

if i'm way off base here someone set me straight, i'm certainly not claiming this as a definite fact... just something i've been podering for some time now.

jkerry

That's a great question! I don't think it takes your body a significant amount of calories to create puffy glands though. I will be anxious to hear other people's responses to this.

 

[gtrcivic]

funny that you ask.. When i did my sus cycle last year, i was trying to bulk up, but ended being a cutting cycle. Kept the calories clean and mostly protein.. Gained 17lbs and bodyfat dropped from the increase in clean weight i got - water bloat.

Friends said i look more cut, even though i was trying to bulk. So it can happen. Good clean cals

 

[Moderate_THIS]

If you're in an anabolic enough state, your body will use adipocytes for sustaining metabolic function, while synthesizing protein from the foods you eat.

 

[zoom]

I inadvertently did it during a 10 week cycle of tren and test prop. I ate like a pig, but still lost fat while gaining a little muscle. I know I gained muscle, because I took measurements of body parts and was stronger. One month after the end of the cycle, I was 10 pounds lighter than before the cycle. I was wanting to bulk, but I failed miserably at that. Instead, I had a good cutting cycle.

 

[Dr. M]

Good answer Doc.
So what you're actually saying is that although the body will
be in a considerable caloric deficient situation, it will prefer to use the protein you eat for building muscle rather than use it as energy via Gluconeogenesis ?

To an extent, yes.

Consuming plenty of protein allows you to anabolize muscular tissue at the same or greater rate than it is catabolized. Muscle tissue is always being turned over to some extent, so intake of protein allows you to put it back where it was, instead of just consuming it. Meanwhile, a carbohydrate depletion is forcing your lipid metabolism to break down esterified fats into free fatty acids, which are then metabolized and the resulting Ac-CoA (acetyl-Coenzyme A) is used primarily in gluconeogenesis.

Put it this way - you're trying to build a brick wall (ripped muscle). Some guy (protein catabolism) comes along and starts taking bricks OFF at a rate of about 6 per hour - that's an average of one every 10 minutes. If you put bricks ON the wall at a rate equal to or greater than one every 10 minutes, you're either maintaining or 'anabolizing' the wall. You need to keep adding bricks (protein) to the stockpile to keep this up though. At the same time, your assistant (lipid metabolism) is taking off the excess mortar you've slapped on (fats as storage form of carbohydrates), since he knows you'll need more mortar (carbohydrate energy from fats) than you've got in the stockpile to finish the top of the wall (by stopping your carbohydrate intake, you've effectively stopped the making of mortar for the wall). By removing the excess mortar (fat layer), you can see more of the brick structure (muscle); the wall appears better-constructed, and there's no excess ("extreme rippage", for lack of a better term).

Hope this analogy makes some kind of sense...
-M

 

[junk]

10X Doc. I like your analogy. Karma for you!

So is this plan sounds right to you ?

Protein 60% (minimum 260-300g. )
Fat 20% (Mostly omega3,6) (40-55 g.)
Carbs 20% (80-150g.) (Is this enough??)

To support your notion that it is possible to gain muscle tissue
while loosing fat, do you think I will be anabolic enough
with this stuff:
WK1-3 Dbols at 20mg ED
WK1-10 Enathate 500mg (or sust) / 400mg EQ
WK11-13 Dbols at 20mg ED
(I like to get clean with short acting so I could start therapy right after and not have to make a guess as to my blood test concentration)

Thanks bro!

 

[MrRTTB]

I've just started cutting as I'm in the 7:th week of my test + EQ cycle. I started it as a bulkcycle and are up from 190 to 205. I look a lot bigger everyone is telling me. I know most of it isn't fat, because I still got ripped back, shopulders, chest, arms and legs. But right now I feel everything is slowing down, and I need to start my cutting for my abs need to get back for the competition. I feel for every day that goes by fat gain is increasing.

My plan is to sheed fat away, but still keep gaining muscle on my arms.

My diet plan is to keep carbs low all week except the day I workout my arms and the day after. This day I will also add slin at 6iu post workout. Protein will be high, about 350g per day hole week and every now and then I will bump it up to 400(on arm day). This day fat will be very limited and most iof the cals will come from carbs. This diet is a 2 day bulk, 5 day cutt.

I just added some propionate as I lowered my winny dose to 25mg ED

Cycle looks like this

4 more weeks

Test Enathate 800mg EW
EQ 600mg EW
Prop 30mg EOD.
winny 25mg ED
Clen tapper up from 50 to 150mcg. No Clen on armdays, clen for 14days, then EC for 1 week and then back on clen.
fat comes from omega 3 mostly, but also omega 6 + 9

Proteins whey + casein, fish + red meat.

Also 10g creatine ED + 2g ALA ED

I will do morningcardio 4 days per week, no cardio on armday or the day after. These 2 days are low intense days.
Calories about 1000 from my BMR on armday, +500 on the day after. Then on the other 5days I will be on a -200calorie diet and up on the cardio instead of lowering the cals.

 

[Dr. M]

Junk -

plan looks pretty good, but if you REALLY want to cut up, jack the carbs down to 10-15% instead of 20. However, the cycle looks really good diet-wise.

Regarding anabolism, yes - you'll definitely bulk up when using the gear listed. If you want to avoid bloat altogether, use prop ED or EOD instead of enan EW. Add primobolan depot if you can get ahold of it in the later stages of your cycle - it'll really harden you up (anyone who's used primo knows what I mean). Winny at 25mg ED might be a nice addition from weeks 6 onward... not MUCH winny, but enough that you might see a slight improvement. With the gear you already have going, you don't need a ton of winny to really get rock-solid.

Looks like you're well on your way!

Thanks for the karma,
-M

 

[syd black]

Some how I put on 16 pounds on a winny 50mg eod and eq 600 mgs a week, I thought this would be a cutting cycle but now I am bigger than ever so...

 

[drgoodbody]

Protein 60% (minimum 260-300g. )
Fat 20% (Mostly omega3,6) (40-55 g.)
Carbs 20% (80-150g.) (Is this enough??)

That is approximately 1720-2300 kcalories. For a low carb, high protein, ketogenic diet (not that ketosis is absolutely necessary for fat loss), a good guide line is to use 12kcal/lb of body weight. For a 200lb person, that means 2400 kcal. At this level of caloric intake the person would be hypocaloric, meaning that their calorie consumption is below their Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) (which is usually multiplied by an activity factor to get a better estimate of caloric needs). For most people, 15kcal/lb of body weight is gives a fair approximation to their BMR caloric needs.

Bottomline: keep in mind your total caloric needs given your body weight as well as the macronutrient split (pro/carb/fat).

DrG

PS: I personally find it impossible to cut and GAIN muscle, regardless of drugs used. I can however cut and not lose muscle .

 

[junk]

Doc thanks for helping out with my plan. I feel much bette now starting my cycle very soon. As for you suggestion on adding Winny at a low dose. Well, I will never ever again use winny or proviron ever. I took them once and lost hair lightning fast. Although I used spironolactone, minoxidil, nizoral,finasteride. So NO winny for me.. I heard Primobolan may be harsh too to the hair. Don't wanna take any chances here cause I am MBP prone.

 

[Dr. M]

Ah... I sometimes forget about the hair effects of Primo or Winny (and others), since I'm not prone to MPB.

Well then, looks rock-solid!

Good luck.
-M

 

[abc 1]

calorie intake is different for everyone. right now i'm 201lbs., 5'5", abs are completely in. i'm eating between 1850 and 2060 calories a day. i started my cycle at 187 (190).

at 12 x bw i'm not losing fat at a steady, efficient rate. at 11 and 10 x bw, the fat moves quicker, but i have to be very careful about smoothing out. not too hard to do it right if you work at it and get used to how your body reacts. i would not recommend someone start cutting with much more than 12 or 13 x bw. try it for 2 to 3 weeks, if you need more calories, bump them up, if it's too much, cut them alittle.

 

[panerai]

HGH sure is great tool for adding muscles while staying lean. Too bad it's so expensive.