Fro. Prolactin, PR, Fina. Help with answers

[panerai]

-Fina binds to the progesterone receptor in certain tissues

Trenbolone's binding to PR doesn't nessecery mean that receptor is activated. Also, if Tren has such a high affinity to AR, most likely it will binds to AR, not PR, hence anabolic-androgenic effect

-Progesterone stimulates the production of prolactin

Estrogen does so to, as well as other factors

-Prolactin and/or estrogen are the causes of gyno

Estrogen, progesteron and other factors can cause gyno. There are studies that show no effect and/or correlation between gyno and prolactin.

-RU-486 blocks progesterone and reduces prolactin
-Progesterone downregulates estrogen receptors
-Blocking progesterone with RU-486 upregulates the estrogen receptor
-RU-486 causes gyno.

NONSENSE

For references see my post (nandi12) on this topic at Triedia:

http://www.triedia.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11926

 

[nandi12]

1) I did not say fina is a progesterone agonist, only that it binds to the progesterone receptor. There is some degree of crossreactivity between many steroidal hormones.

2) I agree. There are many compounds that stimulate prolactin release.

3) Prolactin induced gyno is common in patients taking drugs that lower dopamine levels. Prolactin and estrogen are thought to be the direct causes of gyno, not progesterone.

4) It is a free country. You can either believe the studies I cited or not.

The point of my post was to present a logical connection between progesterone, gyno, and prolactin. What is the point of your post?

 

[perfectspecimen]

which would be the best way to prevent gyno from fina if i am already using arimidex?
deprenyl
bromocriptine
ru-486
vitex

or a combo?

 

[WormAAA77]

which would be the best way to prevent gyno from fina if i am already using arimidex?
deprenyl
bromocriptine
ru-486
vitex

or a combo?

nolvadex (suppress igf-1)
vitex
pergolide mesilate or cabergoline. good luck finding either.

 

[nandi12]

Perfectspecimen, of the drugs on your list only bromocriptine is routinely used to treat gyno.

As I stated earlier, RU-486 has caused gyno in patients using it for Cushing's Disease.
Deprenyl sounds plausible in theory, as we discussed in an earlier post. I am not aware of any studies showing its efficacy, however.
Vitex lowers prolactin levels, but it too would have to be considered experimental.

As Worm pointed out, nolvadex is routinely used to treat gyno.

Are you currently experiencing gyno? Many people take huge amounts of AAS and never experience any symptoms. If you are currently suffering from gyno, you should see a doctor.

 

[nandi12]

Here is another study where RU-486 caused gyno:

: J Neurosurg 1991 Jun;74(6):861-6

Treatment of unresectable meningiomas with the antiprogesterone agent mifepristone.
Grunberg SM, Weiss MH, Spitz IM, Ahmadi J, Sadun A, Russell CA, Lucci L, Stevenson LL.

Department of Neurosurgery, University of Southern California School of Medicine, Los Angeles.

The possibility that meningioma growth may be related to female sex hormone levels is suggested by several lines of evidence.
Meningiomas are twice as common in women as in men, have been observed to wax and wane with pregnancy, and are positively associated with breast cancer. A physiological explanation for these phenomena is provided by the finding of steroid hormone receptors in meningiomas. However, unlike breast cancer, meningiomas are much more commonly positive for progesterone receptors than for estrogen receptors. The authors initiated a study on long-term oral therapy of unresectable meningiomas with the antiprogesterone mifepristone (RU486). Fourteen patients received mifepristone in daily doses of 200 mg for periods ranging from 2 to 31+ months (greater than or equal to 6 months in 12 patients). Five patients have shown signs of objective response (reduced tumor measurement on computerized tomography scan or magnetic resonance image, or improved visual field examination). Three have also experienced
subjective improvement (improved extraocular muscle function or relief from headache). The side effects of long-term mifepristone
therapy have been mild. Fatigue was noted in 11 of the 14 patients. Other side effects included hot flashes in five patients, gynecomastia in three, , partial alopecia in two, and cessation of menses in two. Long-term therapy with mifepristone is a new therapeutic option that may have efficacy in cases of unresectable benign meningioma.

 

[jboldman]

Nandi, I guess the problem that I have with your "chain of events" in the gyno chain is that they are tenuous at best. There is one study that shows TA binding with the PR in the bovine uterus. There is little or no evidence(that I know of) that it binds to the pr in other tissues of cows to say nothing of humans or that is is a PR agonist, two considerations that are essential to the theory. I believe that exploring the mechanisms of gyno is important, I disagree with drawing hasty conclusions.

 

[perfectspecimen]

what would be the dose of bromocriptine to prevent gyno without terrible sides?

 

[jboldman]

Although bromocriptine is routinely prescribed in cases of hyperprolactimia, I have not been able to find any prescribing info in the pdr or mfgrs web sites directly for gynocomastia so to say that it is routinely prescribed for gyno would be misleading. Here is an intersting study that indicates prolactin is NOT involved in gynocomastia. I guess my point here is we need to be careful when quoting studies willy nilly picking out only those parts that seem to support our theories.
=============================================
[Plasma prolactin levels and pubertal gynecomastia]

[Article in German]

Butenandt O.

Twenty-three boys with pubertal gynecomastia had higher mean levels of prolactin than boys of similar development but without gynecomastia (10.1 vs. 6.2 ng/ml). In girls of comparable pubertal staging prolactin level was 12.3 ng/ml. In boys no hyperprolactinemia was found, not even after stimulation with TRH, prolactin levels were not elevated in two boys with secreting mammary glands. Therapy with bromocriptine stopped the secretion. During therapy, prolactin levels could not be raised by stimulation. The results contradict the hypothesis that prolactin is involved in the development of gynecomastia.

 

[steeledan]

Here's a little idea:

1. Tren acts like progesterone
2. Progesterone increases prolactin
3. Vitex takes care of the prolactin and increases LH
4. LH increases test levels (would explain why vitex helps some folks with fina dick)
5. Since the progesterone reduces test ---> dht conversion, there's more test available to be converted to estrogen (just like using proscar/finasteride)
6. Estrogen related gyno....

Solution:
Use an anti-e with vitex? Most recommend nolvadex because it reduces igf-1, but has anyone ever tried vitex with arimidex?