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Free Weights
- Thread starter danbo
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araiber
New member
I started off on the smith just to get the motion of the bench press. Then, with a spotter I did 45 lbs less than I did on the smith. You work your way up, but freeweight- as stressed enough by everyone- builds up your supporting muscles. While bench pressing you are also using your shoulders, lats, triceps, sometimes even your glutes. If you are only looking for islotation work to look better, go for it, but you will be lagging in actual strength of lifting something without guidance of a machine.
Freeweight- being as primitive as they are, subject your body to the most stress, allowing your strength to increase naturally.
To answer your question: yes. Freeweights were definately a shock at first, but you get used to it and love it.
Freeweight- being as primitive as they are, subject your body to the most stress, allowing your strength to increase naturally.
To answer your question: yes. Freeweights were definately a shock at first, but you get used to it and love it.
blut wump
New member
It's a shock moving from machines to free weights. You'll thank yourself for making the switch but it could take a while before you are lifting the same weights with confidence.
Don't rush the process since the reason you are having trouble with control is that you have unused and weak muscles which are being called upon to help. Since they are unused to the weights the other parts are used to, it would be easy to overload them and damage yourself.
Don't rush the process since the reason you are having trouble with control is that you have unused and weak muscles which are being called upon to help. Since they are unused to the weights the other parts are used to, it would be easy to overload them and damage yourself.
musketeer
New member
danbo said:Did you find lifting with free weights weird at first?
I do 26 exercises in total during the week, and 19 of those are with free weights
I don't really remember that it felt wierd (it was about 12 years ago!) but then before my dad would let me use the free weights I had to do things like pushups and situps, chins (like two haha!) and plenty of sport - which is FREE weight really.
I was unable to target the muscles that I wanted to though; my bench press hit my delts and tri's because they were weak, and because I did not know how to arch and expand my chest or pinch my scapula. I always took to leg and puling exercises, but upper body pressing was terrible.
musketeer
New member
You have taken good advice from Arnold encyclopedia - but he wrote that thing in the 80's, using his own 60's knowledge. It is true that BB's looked great back then too, but I believe that it was despite their training routines and not because of it!
This routine looks similar to something I might have persued in good faith when I was in my first few years of training, but had I the knowledge that I know now, I would have done things differently and been a HELL of a lot bigger/stronger/satisfied with the results. I also accept that this is just my opinion and you can obviously ignore me without warrant!
NOW to business, they are ALL good exercises, but not all exercises are created equal.
For a start, you have counted the crunches twice, so that's one exercise gone, down to 25! (lol)
I have to go and do my 10k run along the Thames now, but when I get back, I'll give you a full answer. At the mo, the following is what I'm suggesting. Some of the exercises in the losers section will be replaced by new exercises:
Keepers
Bench Press (10 staggered sets)
Bent-over rows
Calf Raises (5 sets of 15 reps)
Deadlifts (3 sets to failure) [2 minutes rest between sets]
Incline Bench Press (10 staggered sets)
Pullovers
Push Presses (3 sets to failure) [2 minutes rest between sets]
Barbell clean and Press
Losers
Crunches (5 sets of 25 reps)
Dumbbell Lateral Raises
Dumbbell Lunges
Good Mornings (3 sets to failure) [2 minutes rest between sets]
Heavy Dumbbell shrugs (5 sets to failure)
Heavy Upright Row (3 sets to failure) [2 minutes rest between sets]
Hyper Extensions
Lat. Pull down
Leg Curls
Machine Squats
Reverse Crunches (5 sets of 25 reps)
Reverse Wrist Curls
Seated Dumbbell Curls
Standing Barbell Curls
Standing Triceps Extensions
Straight-Leg Deadlifts (3 sets to failure) [2 minutes rest between sets]
Wrist Curls
This routine looks similar to something I might have persued in good faith when I was in my first few years of training, but had I the knowledge that I know now, I would have done things differently and been a HELL of a lot bigger/stronger/satisfied with the results. I also accept that this is just my opinion and you can obviously ignore me without warrant!
NOW to business, they are ALL good exercises, but not all exercises are created equal.
For a start, you have counted the crunches twice, so that's one exercise gone, down to 25! (lol)
I have to go and do my 10k run along the Thames now, but when I get back, I'll give you a full answer. At the mo, the following is what I'm suggesting. Some of the exercises in the losers section will be replaced by new exercises:
Keepers
Bench Press (10 staggered sets)
Bent-over rows
Calf Raises (5 sets of 15 reps)
Deadlifts (3 sets to failure) [2 minutes rest between sets]
Incline Bench Press (10 staggered sets)
Pullovers
Push Presses (3 sets to failure) [2 minutes rest between sets]
Barbell clean and Press
Losers
Crunches (5 sets of 25 reps)
Dumbbell Lateral Raises
Dumbbell Lunges
Good Mornings (3 sets to failure) [2 minutes rest between sets]
Heavy Dumbbell shrugs (5 sets to failure)
Heavy Upright Row (3 sets to failure) [2 minutes rest between sets]
Hyper Extensions
Lat. Pull down
Leg Curls
Machine Squats
Reverse Crunches (5 sets of 25 reps)
Reverse Wrist Curls
Seated Dumbbell Curls
Standing Barbell Curls
Standing Triceps Extensions
Straight-Leg Deadlifts (3 sets to failure) [2 minutes rest between sets]
Wrist Curls
musketeer
New member
Keepers
Squats (just added these - should have been here earlier!)
Bench Press Dont know about 10 sets but obviously Flat BP is a mainstay. I personally prefer to do Weighted Dips as my shoulders don't like the flat bench any more.
Bent-over rows I like em Yates style but les not split hairs!
Calf Raises Just basic toe presses, Higher reps for safety is good if you are relatively new.
Deadlifts Building up to a very heavy single or straight sets of low reps.
Incline Bench Press My personal chest fav. No need to use a high incline 30 degrees is perfect.
Pullovers - cross bench dumbel - reps in the 6 -10 range - NOT machine
Push Presses read my other post about this- it's the dogs bollocks
Barbell clean and Press - just the clean is important. Do it at the start of every push press set. Occasionally do a full clean & press set.
Squats (just added these - should have been here earlier!)
Bench Press Dont know about 10 sets but obviously Flat BP is a mainstay. I personally prefer to do Weighted Dips as my shoulders don't like the flat bench any more.
Bent-over rows I like em Yates style but les not split hairs!
Calf Raises Just basic toe presses, Higher reps for safety is good if you are relatively new.
Deadlifts Building up to a very heavy single or straight sets of low reps.
Incline Bench Press My personal chest fav. No need to use a high incline 30 degrees is perfect.
Pullovers - cross bench dumbel - reps in the 6 -10 range - NOT machine
Push Presses read my other post about this- it's the dogs bollocks
Barbell clean and Press - just the clean is important. Do it at the start of every push press set. Occasionally do a full clean & press set.
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musketeer
New member
Losers
Crunches maybe once a month, but not really as effective as fuctional strength like with squats or push presses.
Dumbbell Lateral Raises A great exercise and I do them once or twice a month for 1-2 sets, but really Dips, incline presses and push presses blast the shoulders.
Dumbbell Lunges They are OK but not as good as squats so why do them?
Good Mornings Again, they work your errectors, but in reality, who needs them if you are squatting, deading...
Heavy Dumbbell shrugs After deads and push presses my traps are pretty fried.
Heavy Upright Row Why? Risk of shoulder impingment and less effective than all of the other upper body moves listed.
Hyper Extensions You can do them for fun, but they are not a real mass exercise.
Lat. Pull down Chins Chins Chins
Leg Curls - Deads and Squats hit this area hard enough
Machine Squats - Can you as say "patella tracking problems"
Reverse Crunches - forget it, they're crunches!
Reverse Wrist Curls - Hmmm, unless you have severe wrist problems, or are a pro BBer, direct wrist work is unnecessary.
Seated Dumbbell Curls If you are doing chins, rows and deads, this exercise is overkill. Perhaps once in a month is right for a little extra stimulation - or maybe NOT!
Standing Barbell Curls See above.
Standing Triceps Extensions ditto. Triceps are fried by the compound pressing movements esp. push presses.
Straight-Leg Deadlifts If you are doing Squats and Deads and cleans and even bent rows, SLDL is just plain overkill!
Wrist Curls see above...
Crunches maybe once a month, but not really as effective as fuctional strength like with squats or push presses.
Dumbbell Lateral Raises A great exercise and I do them once or twice a month for 1-2 sets, but really Dips, incline presses and push presses blast the shoulders.
Dumbbell Lunges They are OK but not as good as squats so why do them?
Good Mornings Again, they work your errectors, but in reality, who needs them if you are squatting, deading...
Heavy Dumbbell shrugs After deads and push presses my traps are pretty fried.
Heavy Upright Row Why? Risk of shoulder impingment and less effective than all of the other upper body moves listed.
Hyper Extensions You can do them for fun, but they are not a real mass exercise.
Lat. Pull down Chins Chins Chins
Leg Curls - Deads and Squats hit this area hard enough
Machine Squats - Can you as say "patella tracking problems"
Reverse Crunches - forget it, they're crunches!
Reverse Wrist Curls - Hmmm, unless you have severe wrist problems, or are a pro BBer, direct wrist work is unnecessary.
Seated Dumbbell Curls If you are doing chins, rows and deads, this exercise is overkill. Perhaps once in a month is right for a little extra stimulation - or maybe NOT!
Standing Barbell Curls See above.
Standing Triceps Extensions ditto. Triceps are fried by the compound pressing movements esp. push presses.
Straight-Leg Deadlifts If you are doing Squats and Deads and cleans and even bent rows, SLDL is just plain overkill!
Wrist Curls see above...
musketeer
New member
Additions/ Replacers
Lat. Pull down Replace with chinups - use different grips...
Dumbbell Lateral Raises Do CHEAT laterals where you go really heavy and explode the weight into the midpoint and then resist the negative.
Dips Replace the flat bench with dips evry now and again, or do dips as well.
Front Squats are great every now and then.
Lat. Pull down Replace with chinups - use different grips...
Dumbbell Lateral Raises Do CHEAT laterals where you go really heavy and explode the weight into the midpoint and then resist the negative.
Dips Replace the flat bench with dips evry now and again, or do dips as well.
Front Squats are great every now and then.
musketeer
New member
So the new list is:
Squats (just added these - should have been added earlier!)
Bench Press
Bent-over rows
Calf Raises
Deadlifts
Incline Bench Press
Pullovers
Push Presses
Dips
Chins
Cheat laterals (occasionally)
Front Squats (occasionally)
Curls (occasionally)
Crunches (occasionally)
Squats (just added these - should have been added earlier!)
Bench Press
Bent-over rows
Calf Raises
Deadlifts
Incline Bench Press
Pullovers
Push Presses
Dips
Chins
Cheat laterals (occasionally)
Front Squats (occasionally)
Curls (occasionally)
Crunches (occasionally)
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perfectly normal
after about a month (maximum usually less time) you are pretty much fine on freeweights balance wise
I don't like starting people on machines because eventually they will try freeweights and if they think machine strength and ability transfers to weights, they can get hurt
if they go from freeweights to machiens tho they are fine
after about a month (maximum usually less time) you are pretty much fine on freeweights balance wise
I don't like starting people on machines because eventually they will try freeweights and if they think machine strength and ability transfers to weights, they can get hurt
if they go from freeweights to machiens tho they are fine
rbtrout
New member
The only thing I'd throw in on a regular basis is squats. Make sure to do them a couple of days before or a couple of days after doing deads, don't do them on the same day (except for warmups, if you like).
Even for a beginner, check out the 5X5 routine, this will give you good basics to start from and then throw in the others Muskateer said and you'll be good to go.
Even for a beginner, check out the 5X5 routine, this will give you good basics to start from and then throw in the others Muskateer said and you'll be good to go.
danbo
New member
No offence, but you've just wiped out half my training programme. I'm sure that cant be right. Everyone says how good squats are and you've just erased them from my plan, why is this if they are so good? Also there is pretty much no leg exercise left, i want leg exercises.musketeer said:
M
*MissFit*
Guest
Free weights have given muy body shape and definition that the machines didnt
musketeer
New member
Jim Ouini said:I think muskie took machine squats out and forgot to add the barbell squat. Just a guess, the list is pretty long
Anyway, if you want a leg exercise, just squat. If you want lots of leg exercises, squat a lot
Sorry, the Squat should have been in there! Squat is arguably the most important exercise! (so important that it goes without saying - lol)
If you are squatting hard and heavy and deep, then you really dont need any other leg exercises. Why waste your energy?
danbo said:
The deal was that if you named all 26 of your exercises, then I would show you that half were unnecessary, and that is what I've done.
Arnold's routine was OK and will work. The following - something like the 5x5 - or my own routine, will work much better. Not because we are smarter or better than Arnold - but because we have the benefit of 30 years of scientific advances that Arnold did not have when he wrote that program. Arnold looked so good because he was a genetically amazing, terrifically dedicated and responded very well to the truckloads of steroids he admitted to taking. (the same - in various degrees for all pro BBs).
With all due respect, if you are a beginner, anything will cause an improvement, because, you are doing more than you were before - ie: nothing.
danbo
New member
Ok i understand all your points. This is how its going to be.
I will continue with my current programme, but i will try to use the machines less and free weights more. (i have 11 weeks left).
After that i was going to start doing the 5x5 anyways. So i'll do that, and after i have completed that one i will continue with the programme that gave me the most gains, and the one i felt best doing.
Musketeer, Why cross bench dumbbell pullovers? I was going to do them lying flat on the bench with a dumbbell. Is it more beneficial to lay across the bench? It seems like the only logical answer is that it allows your chest mucles to stretch more, is this right?
p.s. I will stick with machine squats as i have no other SAFE way of doing it.
I will continue with my current programme, but i will try to use the machines less and free weights more. (i have 11 weeks left).
After that i was going to start doing the 5x5 anyways. So i'll do that, and after i have completed that one i will continue with the programme that gave me the most gains, and the one i felt best doing.
Musketeer, Why cross bench dumbbell pullovers? I was going to do them lying flat on the bench with a dumbbell. Is it more beneficial to lay across the bench? It seems like the only logical answer is that it allows your chest mucles to stretch more, is this right?
p.s. I will stick with machine squats as i have no other SAFE way of doing it.
musketeer
New member
Yeah bro, it's to do with being able to arch your back and utilise your pecs and lats fully. It works like this: try doing a pushup with your back arched forward and shoulders hunched forward and you will only be able to use your triceps. Your shoulders should be just off of the bench, and your hips should be kept down throughout - allowing a safe supported but full arch. As you tire, your hips can buck a little to get a few 'forced reps'.
I also prefer to hold a dumbel in each hand and hold then them together, I started doing that because my usual gym only goes up to 40kg (88lbs), but I actually got a better feeling from them that way.
I also prefer to hold a dumbel in each hand and hold then them together, I started doing that because my usual gym only goes up to 40kg (88lbs), but I actually got a better feeling from them that way.
musketeer
New member
There is a current thread going on about this...
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378639
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378639
Steve The Bluesman
New member
Going from machines to free weights reminds me of the time I saw this clown, who thought he was strong becuase he could bench the whole stack on the universal, try free weights on the bench. He loaded up 315, and it immediately crashed down on his neck.
That wasn't the best part...when he took the plates off, he took ALL THREE off one side. Needless to say, once that last 45 slid off, the bar flew over the bench like a catapault - crashing into a mirror.
Still one of the funniest things I have even seen in a gym.
Muskateer, I like how you cleaned up that routine.
Bluesman
That wasn't the best part...when he took the plates off, he took ALL THREE off one side. Needless to say, once that last 45 slid off, the bar flew over the bench like a catapault - crashing into a mirror.
Still one of the funniest things I have even seen in a gym.
Muskateer, I like how you cleaned up that routine.
Bluesman
