Free weights vs. machines pre-comp.

[SteelWeaver]

I'd like to know what people here do pre-comp when selecting exercises. Usually I stick with almost all free weight movements, partly because my gym doesn't really have much in the way of machines, but mostly because I focus on bigger moves most of the time.

However, in the last few weeks before my only contest so far, I lost a serious amount of strength and found doing all free weight movements was just horribly exhausting. I lifted as heavy as possible on the big compound moves, then did supersets, giant sets etc for assistance moves, since I had to get some intensity somehow. Obviously, pre-comp training IS exhausting, but I'm just wondering if using machines for some of the assistance work wouldn't allow one to work harder (and possibly heavier) whilst managing to conserve some energy?

OK, I know this question sounds really weird - like how do you conserve more energy when working harder?, but maybe you get the feeling if you've done pre-comp training before - even changing the plates on the bar is a huge effort.

Anyone have any preferences?

 

[bignate73]

go with whatever you feel comfortable with. if freeweights feel almost dangerous because your focus or control is low, then you may need to switch to machines. last thing you want to do is get injured. i know my strength dropped bigtime but since i knew i wasnt in a position to put on muscle i took the hit and lowered the weight. i prefer freeweights so i stuck with them.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Thanks bignate. I guess I'll just give it a whirl, see how I'm feeling. I was thinking though, it's best to try and continue to lift as heavy as possible on the bigger moves to MAINTAIN muscle - even if your max lifts have dropped, and you won't be putting on any muscle. That's why I was wondering if machines wouldn't be good to at least still lift somewhat heavy, because, yes, I feel like there's less control when depleted.

What kind of rep range do you hit when you lower the weight? Don't you find going higher just wastes away more muscle?

 

[bignate73]

how many weeks out are you?

how do your joints feel?

how soon do you eat before a workout?

 

[SteelWeaver]

Oh, I'm still way out - 13 weeks. Just planning anally ahead as usual

My joints were fine the last time I did this. And I was/will be eating 1-2 hours before training. Howcome?

 

[bignate73]

at 13 weeks you shouldnt feel a thing. you may notice the drop in strength the last 2-3 weeks.

you should eat prior to fuel your workouts (weights), you will deplete most of your glycogen or alot of it anyways then you can hit cardio at the end. unless you are doing cardio in the morning on an empty stomach. the reason for eating prior is to reduce catabolism. you want to hang on to as much muscle as possible with lower calorie intake. workouts are catabolic so a ready protein and carb source in the bloodstream will inhibit the body from looking to skeletal muscle for energy.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Oh, yes, I know - I feel perfectly fine now, but I like to plan ahead. I like to cut the number of decisions I have to make when in a depleted state. I lost strength majorly at 4 weeks out last time.

I understand the stuff about eating and catabolism and so on - I was wondering why you asked, though. I don't see the connection between that and choosing between free weights and machines.

Thanks for your help, though - I think I'm going to try and stick to free weights for as far in as possible, then hit the machines if I'm not handling. I was just wondering because I just joined a new gym where they have lots of machines. I tried the shoulder press yesterday and it felt weird, so ... I'll see how things go

 

[Vortexx]

Obviously you don't wanna set new PR's with deadlift and benchpressing when you get near the depleted state. Also marathon workouts consisting of 20 sets per bodypart are not very likely to be performed with adequate intensity.....


I still think that it's important to use the free weight, but use very SHORT intense FREQUENT workout sessions , twice a day, using tris-sets etc. to keep some intensity. I borrowed the HST concept of doing very few sets for a bodypart but doing it every other day and gave some wicked twists to it.

This is what i would do to harden up and maintain some muscle...

GLOBAL OVERVIEW:

MONDAY - WED - FRI - SUN (mostly upperbody)
morning:
- CHEST
- UPPER BACK

evening:
- DELTS
- TRAPS
- BICEPS
- TRICEPS

THUESDAY - THU - SAT (mostly lowerbody)
morning:
- FORE-ARMS & WRIST
- ABS
- CARDIO (HIGH INTENSITY INTERVAL TRAINING)

evening:
- QUADS
- LOWER BACK
- HAMS
- GLUTES
- CALVES


ROUTINE BREAKDOWN:
-----------------------------

CHEST:

Giant set:
- flat benchpress 5 reps + 3 forced reps with spotter
- incline dumbell press triple drop set 8-4-4-4 reps
- wide dips with bodyweight to failure (usually 6-10 reps)
- cable cross, or pec-deck or flat dumbell flyes 30 reps, go for the lactic acid burn

Giant set:
- incline benchpress 5 reps + 3 forced reps with spotter
- flat dumbell press triple drop set 8-4-4-4 reps
- wide dips with bodyweight to failure (usually 6-10 reps)
- low or high incline dumbell flyes or partial pullovers 30 reps

Done!

UPPERBACK:

2 * 10 bent row
1 * t-bar row triple drop set 8-4-4-4
1 * chin station triple drop set 8-4-4-4
1 * pulldown (choose another grip every workout, front/back , parallel, reverse grip etc ) triple drop 8-4-4-4

Done!

DELTS:

Giant set:
- behind neck press 5 reps + 3 forced reps with spotter
- arnold press triple drop set 8-4-4-4
- dumbell side raises 30 reps
- upright row 10 reps

Giant set:
- front press 5 reps + 3 forced reps with spotter
- seated dumbell press triple drop set 8-4-4-4
- alternate dumbell front raises, or plate/barbell front raises 30 reps
- upright row 10 reps

Done!

TRAPS:

2 * Giant set
- barbell shrugs 5 reps + 3 forced reps with spotter
- dumbell shrugs , hold the peak contraction for 3 seconds here!!!!, try to plug your ears, triple drop set 8-4-4-4
- upright row 10 reps
- dumbell side raises 30 reps

Done!

BICEPS:

Choose 2 random biceps exercise and do a triple set with it 8-4-4-4

Done!

TRICEPS

Choose 2 random triceps exercise and do a triple set with it 8-4-4-4

Done!

FORE-ARMS & WRIST:

1 * reverse barbell curl triple drop set 8-4-4-4
1 * 10 reverse barbell curl triple drop set 8-4-4-4
1 * 12 reverse barbell curl triple drop set 8-4-4-4
1 * 15 reverse barbell curl triple drop set 8-4-4-4

1 * reverse cable curl triple drop set 10-4-4-4
1 * 12 reverse cable curl
1 * 15 reverse cable curl
1 * 20 reverse cable curl

1 * dumbell hammer curl leaning against pole triple drop set 10-4-4-4
1 * 12 hammer curls
1 * 15 hammer curls
1 * 20 hammer curls

Do the hammer curls slow, this recruits more of the forearms than the biceps


DOne!

WRIST:

1 * 12 barbell wrist curl
1 * 15 barbell wrist curl
1 * 20 barbell wrist curl

1 * 12 one arm dumbell wrist curl
1 * 15 one arm dumbell wrist curl
1 * 20 one arm dumbell wrist curl

1 * 12 barbell reverse wrist curl
1 * 15 barbell reverse wrist curl
1 * 20 barbell reverse wrist curl

1 * 12 one arm dumbell wrist curl
1 * 15 one arm dumbell wrist curl
1 * 20 one arm dumbell wrist curl

- finish with the wrist roller, a set forward and backward for 2 minutes and hang out on the chinning bar

Done!


ABS:

3 * hanging leg raises supersetted with triple drop sets on the crunch machine 8-4-4-4 reps using a fast explosive protocol

3 * static incline situps (as posted by NEEDSIZE) supersetted with crunch machine 10 reps using a slow controlled protocol

3 * reverse crunch supersetted with crunch machine 20 reps using a fast continuous protocol

1 * 10 minutes broomstick twist

DONE!

CARDIO:

use HIIT , intervals of 20 seconds using bike or stairclimber

Done!


QUADS

1 * 10 squat

1 * 10 leg press or hacksquat supersetted with leg extension triple drop set 10-6-6-6

LOWER BACK - HAMSTRINGS

1 * 8 deadlift
1 * 20 "breathing" deadlift

2 * 10-8 stiff legged deadlift

2 * triple drop set 10-6-6-6 hyperextension or pullthrough or goodmorning

2 * leg curl triple drop set 8-4-4-4


GLUTES

2 * triple drop barbell lunge 10-6-6-6
2 * triple drop poullthrough for glutes 10-6-6-6
2 * triple drop leg abductor machine 10-6-6-6
2 * triple drop leg adductor machine 10-6-6-6

Done!

CALVES Use the Poliquin calve routine Done!

When you start to feel very depleted in the last few weeks you can opt to replace the barbell exercises with machines....

 

[The Shadow]

..the true path is never an exterme