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Food For Thought...From a Pro

T

TheAssholeFomerlyKnownAsDBBT

New member
As I've said a few times before on this board, I know IFBB Pro and this year's Arnold Classic invite Mark Dugdale. Recently I got down to business with him and talked about gear. I told him how much I take and what I've been taking. Waiting to hear back some crazy amount of gear and HGH he takes, I was stunned when he said I TOOK MORE THAN HIM! (Which at the time was about a gram)...He also told me the following, "Just go with what works for you, but I will say that you take more than I do. The secret is not in the drugs - it's in all the small things that make up the word discipline over the course of a year. Diet (7 quality meals a day - minimum), proper training and adequate rest is what will get you to your goals. I "out-progressed" fellow competitors because I did one extra rep when they quit, ate one extra meal in the off-season while they felt too full and skipped, I went to bed and got 10 hours of sleep while they went out on Friday night and got 4... Do you get the idea? In a sport that pushes the level of excellence - every minute detail matters!"

Interesting for sure, I'll be hittin the sack a little earlier these next few months.
 
yeah look at me, i got this body from 1.5grams of gear a week for 12 weeks!!!!
bigger is better...




































i'm kidding.
 
for sure bro i se it all the time i n the gym people taking all sorts of shit and not getting the results they expect because training and diet just plain suck
 
That's what every level-headed person on these forums has been saying for years, and yet, we still have "respected" fuck-shits crying that 500mg a week is not even enough for a first cycle and first-timers should go for a gram, and keep up above it. In fact, with three or four exceptions, everyone on this forum who uses a gram or more looks like a fat pile of shit instead of a bodybuilder.
 
ohashi said:
That's what every level-headed person on these forums has been saying for years, and yet, we still have "respected" fuck-shits crying that 500mg a week is not even enough for a first cycle and first-timers should go for a gram, and keep up above it. In fact, with three or four exceptions, everyone on this forum who uses a gram or more looks like a fat pile of shit instead of a bodybuilder.
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OOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHH!!! :evil:
 
Ehhh......and to his credit that's awseome, but he's the exception. I've talked to multiple pros, and two well respected ones in great detail about their AAS usage, once we got past all the..initial BS...I was shocked at the amount of shit they were using, but even more so at the lack of time off they took.

I've used over a gram in the past, in my case saw no greater results, than when using moderate amounts. I got my best gains off of varying my compounds.

What your buddy is saying is SO TRUE. The training, the diet, and for sure the recovery are far more important, but using retarded amounts of AAS is still rampant in the IFBB, and more astonishingly so.....at your local gym. :rolleyes:
 
ohashi said:
That's what every level-headed person on these forums has been saying for years, and yet, we still have "respected" fuck-shits crying that 500mg a week is not even enough for a first cycle and first-timers should go for a gram, and keep up above it. In fact, with three or four exceptions, everyone on this forum who uses a gram or more looks like a fat pile of shit instead of a bodybuilder.
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3 or 4 exceptions? I know a couple dozen myself so I think you're just unaware of what many people look like here. We sponsor 6 people on this board that are national competitors. You don't get there looking like "a pile of shit".




The reason people say to use more than 500mg for a first cycle is that that is what the people who built the monsters all say. The early guys like Duchaine I mean. The average guy has no business using more than that because the fact is the vast majority of the people here are not going to compete and just want "the bitches" to look at them. For them 500mg is fine.
But there is no way you're going to be a heavy weight competitor on that. And any 300 pound national or pro competitor that says he never used as much as a gram is lying.
If you saw the hotel rooms of the competitors of the O with everyone scrambling to get an IV running with plasma expanders before they go on stage you'd know how full of shit most of them are about what they use and what lengths they go to to look like they do. Dorian Yates' cycle was posted once upon a time, years ago, and it was well over 5 grams.
 
Ulter said:
3 or 4 exceptions? I know a couple dozen myself so I think you're just unaware of what many people look like here. We sponsor 6 people on this board that are national competitors. You don't get there looking like "a pile of shit".
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And they all use 1gram+? How very nice. However, from the pics that have been posted, I stick to my "three or four exceptions" statement. Anyone can say they look like a pro, but unless they can prove it with pics, they don't exist to me. If they really do look like a pro, more power to them; they shouldn't care what I think.
 
They don't care what you think, that's true. And they are also NOT going to post pics because they are tested competitors. But I have been to shows all over the country to see the people we sponsor and many we don't. I know what they use because I help them with cycle ideas.

I do remember one national competitor who posted his off season pics when someone like you said that he wasn't a 280 pound competitor. He was asked to post a pic of himself with a knife and fork. I don't know why he did it, but he did.

This is him offseason, the pic he posted

frontforkknife.JPG



This is him onstage

bigMoFo.jpg



You stick to 3 of 4 though if it makes you feel better.
 
The knife-and-fork pic looks familiar.

Also, I was talking about the people on this board, not every bodybuilder in the world.
 
maxpain said:
Ulter you coming to the nationals this year in Atlanta?
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Did you steal my Avi? Sonoma bitch! :chomp:





;)
 
The bottom line here concerning roid use is that it is not how much you use, but rather how many androgen receptors you are born with.

Some people can take a little bit of juice and simply explode. I know a former pro BBer who never took more than 400mg test and 400mg weekly from his teenage years, to the time he won the nationals, to all his competitions. when he came back to compete in teh Masters O a couple years ago, he had not touched juice in about 5 years and he still did the same cycle with GH thrown in the last three weeks and he gained 22 pounds of muscle in five months. I think we know what three weeks of GH will do. Nothing.

Paul Baker here in Ft Lauderdale, IFBB pro, take 600mg test cyp weekly year around. This dude easily weighs 320 pounds off season.
 
What I dont understand is all the BS that is chatted on this board in the anabolic and training forums. I mean why not outline how to get to be one of those guys ? Diet, Training, aas use. I dont get it, I mean I know you can't follow it word for word and gentics and yadadaidida everyones different. I think that is a SILLY cop-out!!! But You could be on here for years and all you can do is ask questions and get some answers. But who's answering the questions ? I see advice flow from guys on here and they really are not all that impressive. I think there should be very lengthly reports on this board on how to be a bodybuilder. I mean Ok so ARNOLD's book isnt right because of his gentics....fine so what is right ??? I know it has many factors but there isnt really many clear answers on this board. Like of those top national guys you talk about what do there routines look like ?? Are they the same now as when they started ? Whats different ? There aas use, you say you know, post it up....There diets , what do they eat, when, how much, what changes ? Are they powerlifters ? Bodybuilders ? Powerbuilders ? Everyones different but there has to be some fundemental building blocks. Maybe if you clued us in on some of their details alot of it may work for guys who really want to know and who give 110% and want to find out the damn TRUTH !!!! Sometimes I think this board even though people here dog magazines the answers are kind of hidden. There is not enough about what works for the top guys as I like. I like the board but if you have the answers why not give us an inside look into these so called national guys, do it with a fine toothe comb. I think it would be much appreciated by the members......I think the training aspect of it is way, way short of being very helpful....So there are many ways, What do they do for there workouts, sets,reps,frequency, rest periods, break periods, rep it out or forced reps ? Rest pause.....Come on throw us a bone...!!!!!!!
 
Tryn2 said:
Everyones different but there has to be some fundemental building blocks. Maybe if you clued us in on some of their details alot of it may work for guys who really want to know and who give 110% and want to find out the damn TRUTH ...!!!!!!!
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Seek and ye shall find. The fundamnetals haven't changed in years, maybe adapted over time, and that comes with new discoveries. But the bottom line is right there in the first post, and all over this board. Training, Diet, Recovery, AAS, oh yeah and GENETICS. You have to trial and error this shit to death (ie:supplementation, training, etc..to find out what works for you) but the bottom line is STICK TO THE BASICS. If I had a nickel for every guy I know that followed the strictest of diets, training programs, plenty of rest, and was sauced to the gills, but yet still never achieved the look he was going for..................well, I'd have a lot of nickels.

As much as people do not want to hear this..........if it ain't gonna happen....it ain't gonna happen.
 
AAP said:
The bottom line here concerning roid use is that it is not how much you use, but rather how many androgen receptors you are born with.

Some people can take a little bit of juice and simply explode. I know a former pro BBer who never took more than 400mg test and 400mg weekly from his teenage years, to the time he won the nationals, to all his competitions. when he came back to compete in teh Masters O a couple years ago, he had not touched juice in about 5 years and he still did the same cycle with GH thrown in the last three weeks and he gained 22 pounds of muscle in five months. I think we know what three weeks of GH will do. Nothing.

Paul Baker here in Ft Lauderdale, IFBB pro, take 600mg test cyp weekly year around. This dude easily weighs 320 pounds off season.
Click to expand...
is there any way to know how receptive you are to steroids without taking them? is there a test to find out how many androgen receptors one has?
 
pitbullstl said:
Seek and ye shall find. The fundamnetals haven't changed in years, maybe adapted over time, and that comes with new discoveries. But the bottom line is right there in the first post, and all over this board. Training, Diet, Recovery, AAS, oh yeah and GENETICS. You have to trial and error this shit to death (ie:supplementation, training, etc..to find out what works for you) but the bottom line is STICK TO THE BASICS. If I had a nickel for every guy I know that followed the strictest of diets, training programs, plenty of rest, and was sauced to the gills, but yet still never achieved the look he was going for..................well, I'd have a lot of nickels.

As much as people do not want to hear this..........if it ain't gonna happen....it ain't gonna happen.
Click to expand...

Really true, if you've been on gear for X years and it's really not doing "it" for you, then stop! If you're THAT frustrated with yourself I'll bet gear has about 10% of the reason you look the way you do, so stop the gear and figure out your real reason for not looking good, diet, train, genet, rest etc. You can still diet, train, rest, and rely on your own genetics to get a decent body. By no means should anyone on this board rest on one persons comments or recommendations...In my original post, I said I need to sleep more! Obviously my bro doesn't take as much gear as I, but he def. has better genetics than I. It doesn't matter if Dorian Yates, Chris Cormier, Jay Cutler, Ronnie C. , Craig Titus, King Kamali all Post their EXACT bodybuilding secrets....ITS all about what works best for YOU...this is something I've recently learned and i haven't been on gear very long fortunately to abuse it to extremes like many up here have. It's late and I'm not even sure what I wrote makes 2 cents of shit to anyone, but i tried
 
Beachbum1546 said:
is there any way to know how receptive you are to steroids without taking them? is there a test to find out how many androgen receptors one has?
Click to expand...


Not that I know of. But there are some people that are just born to be big. Some people are born to respond very well to muscle stimulus (training) others are born to respond very well to chemical enhancement (roiding). You find these people look like an average gym body builder and then just blow up crazy when on the juice. Levrone is an example of this.

Then you have people that simply have to take extreme amounts of AAS to build size. Franco Santeriollo or however you spell his name (from the cybergenics ad) is one of these. Ultimate Warrior (aka Anabolic Warrior) is another. Some people have to hit the 5 gram mark weekly to see growth enough to place them over the amateur level.
 
I know many pro's use a ton of shit but not all of them. One guy that i know who is a genetic freak only uses 500mg of test, 400mg deca and a few other odds like clen a shit. He has never touched HGH or slin. You would not bel him if you saw him. I want to post his website badly but I am sure he does not want me talking about him in here.
 
I agree with Ulter. I've trained lots of BB's and the ones that competed at the national level all used around 2 grams a week, and a couple up to 5 grams a week. I remember years ago when that Dorian cycle post came out I thought it was total BS. Now I know differently. If you're not going to compete use lower dosages, but if you'e a competitor then you'll have to go higher unless you're a genetic freak like Dugdale. On a side note I really like Dugdale's physique. I wish him the best in the pros. He's always on Mayhem and is a great person.
 
Tryn2

That used to go on here all the time. This board was filled with pros and those who train and advise them on steroids. All the "secrets" were posted here regularly by people like E2. Those people are gone now and no one will take their place. Mainly because of the great job George has done promoting his board has driven them away because it's too high profile. The other reason is, you don't want to know what most of them use. If an E2 pro cycle was posted for someone here now there would be 300 people that would get on the thread and say, "that's insane" "no one needs that much" "you'll die doing that" "OMG slim shady have you lost your mind".
The pro-type cycles and contest preps don't fly here anymore because there was a shift in the board from hard core weight trainers and competitors to guys who just want to impress the bitches. As soon as they heard "you only need 500mg/wk" and the rest is training and diet they all rallied behind that, like they knew what they were talking about. As more newbies came and felt relieved that they didn't have to use high doses to impress the bitches it became "the right way" to cycle.
The thing about the pros, not the top pros, that cycle a gram +/- is that they do that ALL YEAR and then bump it up a little 12 weeks out.

Let me clarify something though. There is nothing wrong with the way the board has evolved and I am not an old schooler who thinks steroids are only for those who compete. Steroids make you look better and feel better and if you want to use them to get laid go for it. If you want to use them for a better quality of life, do it. But understand that you're greatly restricted in taking a casual approach as to the size you'll ever gain. You will never look like the pros if you don't live their life, like Dugdale told Detroit.
 
I personally would take to heart what advise Ulter had over about 99.9% of others here. You can tell he knows EXACTLY what he is talking about.
 
Ulter said:
Tryn2
...The pro-type cycles and contest preps don't fly here anymore because there was a shift in the board from hard core weight trainers and competitors to guys who just want to impress the bitches. ..
Click to expand...

Ulter is 100% right. I returned to this board after not posting for over a year, and it has changed for the worse. I've posted this myslef before, asking, if all the guys on here use gear just to get laid. It does seem like that, and it seems like there is an awful lot of IMMATURITY that goes with thoes attitudes. There was not all this bickering and name-calling on this list before, and I've been considering pulling my plat and going elsewhere as I don't seem to get much benefit from most of the posts on here, ie. "Critique my first cycle," "Which is better, Anadrol or Dbol," "How big are your arms,"
etc. etc. etc.

Second of all, most bodybuilders are lying hypocritical assholes when it comes to talking about gear. I read in FLEX, when Tom Prince was first dealing with his kidney failure, that he spent $1,600 on four months worth of gear. WHAT THE FUCK!!??? I credit him for talking about it at all, but $1,600 might buy an Olympia contender a weeks' worth of gear!! Give me a fucking break! THe drugs pros use go far and beyond the level of what's discussed on this board, but it seems that very few on here are serious about competing or attaining bodybuilding goals, they just want to get puffed up a bit so they look pretty on the beach and get laid. Sad.
 
ATLmuscles said:
Ulter is 100% right. I returned to this board after not posting for over a year, and it has changed for the worse. I've posted this myslef before, asking, if all the guys on here use gear just to get laid. It does seem like that, and it seems like there is an awful lot of IMMATURITY that goes with thoes attitudes. There was not all this bickering and name-calling on this list before, and I've been considering pulling my plat and going elsewhere as I don't seem to get much benefit from most of the posts on here, ie. "Critique my first cycle," "Which is better, Anadrol or Dbol," "How big are your arms,"
etc. etc. etc.

Second of all, most bodybuilders are lying hypocritical assholes when it comes to talking about gear. I read in FLEX, when Tom Prince was first dealing with his kidney failure, that he spent $1,600 on four months worth of gear. WHAT THE FUCK!!??? I credit him for talking about it at all, but $1,600 might buy an Olympia contender a weeks' worth of gear!! Give me a fucking break! THe drugs pros use go far and beyond the level of what's discussed on this board, but it seems that very few on here are serious about competing or attaining bodybuilding goals, they just want to get puffed up a bit so they look pretty on the beach and get laid. Sad.
Click to expand...

True...this board does have some issues regarding the members and goals etc, glad im not paying for it :rolleyes:
 
Ulter kolego your are100% correct.

I will make this post fairly short as i do not like eating with 1 hand and typing with the other, and i am hungry. First as allways is Genetics, then eating then training then rest then juice. There are freaks out there. However...lol ....i pitty the fool who tries to tell me that pros are on 400 mg a week or even 2 grams a week. I had the pleasure of meeting some big people that ou have eighter heard about or not but that are in the game a long tiem and are truly monsters. Point is they lie to people. But if ou realy know them then you know their cycles etc. I think i can sum it up in a sentance. I asked 1 pro what doses he takes, he replied.....first tell me what you take with a smile....i was on 1.2g test and some deca+ alittle tren at the time( afairly potent cycle) total 2.4 or so grams...he replied....i pretty much do the same...paused......and then said Each Day. Now not all pros ar ethi scrazy but between me and you on of at least 10 pros and amateurs/pros i know each are bascally on more gear then most of the members on this board have even heard about...just some first hand knowlege.....but im sure that some one will say.....wtf do you know man lee priest is on 400 deca a week..!.. ::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol: :FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol:
 
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i liked what conte from balco said about hyper responders. if there are hyper responders there must also be hypo responders. the point for a newbie is to find out how your body responds. my message for the newbies is don't just assume you need to jump to a big cycle cause you seen some experienced bro doing that. see cause he's been through the learning curve you havn't. EVERYONE always analyze and evaluate everything your doing before deciding the answer is more drugs.

follow the process like all my true brothers in iron, more power to ya.
 
PolfaJelfa said:
Ulter kolego your are100% correct.

I will make this post fairly short as i do not like eating with 1 hand and typing with the other, and i am hungry. First as allways is Genetics, then eating then training then rest then juice. There are freaks out there. However...lol ....i pitty the fool who tries to tell me that pros are on 400 mg a week or even 2 grams a week. I had the pleasure of meeting some big people that ou have eighter heard about or not but that are in the game a long tiem and are truly monsters. Point is they lie to people. But if ou realy know them then you know their cycles etc. I think i can sum it up in a sentance. I asked 1 pro what doses he takes, he replied.....first tell me what you take with a smile....i was on 1.2g test and some deca+ alittle tren at the time( afairly potent cycle) total 2.4 or so grams...he replied....i pretty much do the same...paused......and then said Each Day. Now not all pros ar ethi scrazy but between me and you on of at least 10 pros and amateurs/pros i know each are bascally on more gear then most of the members on this board have even heard about...just some first hand knowlege.....but im sure that some one will say.....wtf do you know man lee priest is on 400 deca a week..!.. ::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol: :FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol::FRlol:
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There are two guys I train with every few months (or as often as can get down there), one's in Dallas (pro), and the other is in Florida (pro)...and neither one of them is Curly Top (sorry AAP).......one of them has been using upwards of 5 grams a month for a long......long... time.....in fact, I'm pretty sure his liver slid out his ass while we were doing deads......

The point is.........the overusage of AAS is rampant in the IFBB, AND YOUR LOCAL GYM (hmmmm did I say this before).....everyone...and I mean EVERYONE.....lies about what they use......shit the one time I got bookoo crazy with the shit a few years ago, there were only two people who knew the amount of gear I was on........ME...and MY SOURCE. I will not say more is better, because in my case it wasn't.....but I ain't a pro....and I never could be....(despite all the nice things you guys say about my back ;) )

Trial and error girls......that's what it's all about.... :)
 
Paul doesnt mind you posting that up??

AAP said:
The bottom line here concerning roid use is that it is not how much you use, but rather how many androgen receptors you are born with.

Some people can take a little bit of juice and simply explode. I know a former pro BBer who never took more than 400mg test and 400mg weekly from his teenage years, to the time he won the nationals, to all his competitions. when he came back to compete in teh Masters O a couple years ago, he had not touched juice in about 5 years and he still did the same cycle with GH thrown in the last three weeks and he gained 22 pounds of muscle in five months. I think we know what three weeks of GH will do. Nothing.

Paul Baker here in Ft Lauderdale, IFBB pro, take 600mg test cyp weekly year around. This dude easily weighs 320 pounds off season.
Click to expand...
 
I dont believe for one second that a 320 lb pro bodybuilder is using less than the average guy "its all diet training rest blah blah blah" these guys are lying there asses off...I know Eric Fromm who competes in nationals and all you have to do is look at these guys to know that 1 gram of test is childs play--Id say a more accurate assumption is 1 gram per day along with whatever else they shoot themselves with. These guys are so juiced to the gills they are walking nuclear waste dumps. I met Gunter and to say he uses average amounts is just ridiculous. Im not trying to be a jerk but i get a little tired of hearing all the time that its 5% drugs and the rest diet and all that other stuff-------dont get me wrong diet and everything else is more important than drugs but lets get off our imaginary clouds and realize drugs plays a much bigger role than we say.
 
I have no doubt that purely from a size perspective I could have reached pro size on less 2 grams/week. I just don't have the fortitude to be dieting 6-7 months a year.
 
Some funny shit in this thread....the point is see what works for you if you are a newbie dont jump on the more is better wagon, but as you progress you have to see what you need to do, hell if you aint growing to where you should be after perfect diet and training + rest after a while you might want to bump it up !
 
I'm with Ulter here....the pros that say they use 250mg a week...GIMME A BREAK. I personally feel that Dugdale is full of shit here....c'mon.... He's also a self professed christian, so why is he using AAS? The bible states that mans laws should be followed. Whatsup with that?

At 2 grams of test a week, magic happens. I personally think that 2 grams a week is fine for someone starting out, provided that they have been training for an adequate amount of time. The gains at 2 grams is unreal...and undoubtedly better than using 500mg.
 
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poantrex said:
I'm with Ulter here....the pros that say they use 250mg a week...GIMME A BREAK. I personally feel that Dugdale is full of shit here....c'mon.... He's also a self professed christian, so why is he using AAS? The bible states that mans laws should be followed. Whatsup with that?

At 2 grams of test a week, magic happens. I personally think that 2 grams a week is fine for someone starting out, provided that they have been training for an adequate amount of time. The gains at 2 grams is unreal...and undoubtedly better than using 500mg.
Click to expand...


hmmmm poantrex, do you know any Christians who smoke cigarettes, take birth control, get plastic surgery, eat fast food, drink alcohol? Lets see...yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.
See at pattern?
 
detroitbodybuildertigers said:
hmmmm poantrex, do you know any Christians who smoke cigarettes, take birth control, get plastic surgery, eat fast food, drink alcohol? Lets see...yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.
See at pattern?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know a ton of christians that talk the talk but don't walk the talk if thats what you're asking. But I can't complain since some of them are my drinking buddies.
 
Ulter, what are your cycles like these days?

Are you still trying to grow, or just maintain?

I turned 49 this week and it's everything I can do to hold onto what little I've got.

Got any words of wisdom for us old farts?

Thanks much.
 
some great posts on here, k for you especially ulter!
I haved lived this lifestyle from end to end for years now, and have some decent gains and an alright physique to show for it, but no where near what I need to compete at the levels that I want to. But as I continue to raise my doses on each cycle to get where I need to, I wont post them on here anymore as I am sick of the beach wannanbees telling me I am going to hurt myself, and that I dont need so much. Unless you have been to those levels, then you dont know! A month ago I was walking around at 260lbs, 11% or so at 5'8", gaining more size at that point sure as hell requires more than a gram a week of gear
 
poantrex said:
If that were true, he wouldn't blatantly disobey God?
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What? Lets say I get meds prescribed for me for mental reasons, people take pills and drugs prescribed by dr.'s ...does that mean I'm disobeying? No, and as far as you know he is getting his gear prescribed and is closer to his doctor to make sure everything is Ok with the administration of his drugs. Why don't you email himself to ask these burning questions you have, go to his site and email him :o
 
detroitbodybuildertigers said:
What? Lets say I get meds prescribed for me for mental reasons, people take pills and drugs prescribed by dr.'s ...does that mean I'm disobeying? No, and as far as you know he is getting his gear prescribed and is closer to his doctor to make sure everything is Ok with the administration of his drugs. Why don't you email himself to ask these burning questions you have, go to his site and email him :o
Click to expand...

LOL.....are you typing this with a straight face? Prescribed by a doctor?

Its okay man. He's not the only christian hypocrite...no biggie.
 
I hope you are kidding what does juice have to do with God, some of you people are just plain stupid!
 
Ulter said:
Tryn2

That used to go on here all the time. This board was filled with pros and those who train and advise them on steroids. All the "secrets" were posted here regularly by people like E2. Those people are gone now and no one will take their place. Mainly because of the great job George has done promoting his board has driven them away because it's too high profile. The other reason is, you don't want to know what most of them use. If an E2 pro cycle was posted for someone here now there would be 300 people that would get on the thread and say, "that's insane" "no one needs that much" "you'll die doing that" "OMG slim shady have you lost your mind".
The pro-type cycles and contest preps don't fly here anymore because there was a shift in the board from hard core weight trainers and competitors to guys who just want to impress the bitches. As soon as they heard "you only need 500mg/wk" and the rest is training and diet they all rallied behind that, like they knew what they were talking about. As more newbies came and felt relieved that they didn't have to use high doses to impress the bitches it became "the right way" to cycle.
The thing about the pros, not the top pros, that cycle a gram +/- is that they do that ALL YEAR and then bump it up a little 12 weeks out.

Let me clarify something though. There is nothing wrong with the way the board has evolved and I am not an old schooler who thinks steroids are only for those who compete. Steroids make you look better and feel better and if you want to use them to get laid go for it. If you want to use them for a better quality of life, do it. But understand that you're greatly restricted in taking a casual approach as to the size you'll ever gain. You will never look like the pros if you don't live their life, like Dugdale told Detroit.
Click to expand...


Very good post Ulter.
 
Date : January 9th

Name : Paul Baker

Height : 6'2"

Weight : 322

Incline Press : 315 x 20 reps

Cycle : 600mg Test Cypionate weekly

Training Philosophy : Never under 10 reps per set, never under 15 sets per exercise.

paulb7sw.jpg
 
AAP said:
Date : January 9th

Name : Paul Baker

Height : 6'2"

Weight : 322

Incline Press : 315 x 20 reps

Cycle : 600mg Test Cypionate weekly

Training Philosophy : Never under 10 reps per set, never under 15 sets per exercise.

paulb7sw.jpg
Click to expand...

I'm sure he's being completely truthful there, just like Lee Priest who claims to take just 1cc of deca a week. LOL!
 
detroitbodybuildertigers said:
As I've said a few times before on this board, I know IFBB Pro and this year's Arnold Classic invite Mark Dugdale. Recently I got down to business with him and talked about gear. I told him how much I take and what I've been taking. Waiting to hear back some crazy amount of gear and HGH he takes, I was stunned when he said I TOOK MORE THAN HIM! (Which at the time was about a gram)...He also told me the following, "Just go with what works for you, but I will say that you take more than I do. The secret is not in the drugs - it's in all the small things that make up the word discipline over the course of a year. Diet (7 quality meals a day - minimum), proper training and adequate rest is what will get you to your goals. I "out-progressed" fellow competitors because I did one extra rep when they quit, ate one extra meal in the off-season while they felt too full and skipped, I went to bed and got 10 hours of sleep while they went out on Friday night and got 4... Do you get the idea? In a sport that pushes the level of excellence - every minute detail matters!"

Interesting for sure, I'll be hittin the sack a little earlier these next few months.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with that. He probably has great genetics. One extra rep, blah, I've heard some huge bodybuilders say the secret is never to go to failure.
 
I was a member here years ago and recently rejoined (lost my password and only recently created a new account) so it's an interesting perspective.

There's both a good and bad side to what's happened to this site over the years. The bad side is that a lot of knowledge, experience, and good people have left. There were always newb garbage threads and a few posts but when a question was asked the person almost always got the right answer the first time or at least by the 3rd or 4th post. I'm not seeing that anymore. I've seen a few long threads with morons giving advice and no one stepping in.

On the other side of that I remember seeing regular guys coming here and reading some cycle info and the next thing you know they are bridging into their 2nd cycle composed of over 1.3 grams weekly thinking that was what everyone needed to do to get gains (Hell, I have known people holding national, world and Olympic medals in weightlifting that never took that much and that includes lighter athletes as well as superheavies). Yeah, a pro BBer is going to need a boatload of juice to maintain that mass while he diets down ultra low but the average guy out there looking for some extra pounds gets caught up because he wants to make the most of his "one and only" cycle because he's "never going to touch it again." Nowadays it looks like things are a bit more under control from a dosage standpoint - I think the regular guy benefits here but it really sucks to see the knowledge base get depleted. There are still a number of really sharp guys here but some of the losses are very significant.
 
poantrex said:
I'm sure he's being completely truthful there, just like Lee Priest who claims to take just 1cc of deca a week. LOL!
Click to expand...


Considering he spends a good deal of time in my prescence and considering I know EXACTLY where he gets his sauce from, I can atest to what he uses.
 
What the hell you talking about ..poantrex is not my boy....he is a tool just llike it says in his avatar... im sory but this realy pist me of im about to have a BF(bitch fit)...lol

Stupid ignorant fool, there is nothin gimoral about juicing i am a christian and if juicing was imoral i woud not be for it......Next Question.....BTW when you reply i will not reply back as my time is too presious to be wasting it on self proclaimed fools and tools like you....Oh and too tick you off 1 bit more....look at the map in my avatar...im willling to bet you are a hard core left wing liberal ...:) Cheers to you mate :)
 
PolfaJelfa said:
What the hell you talking about ..poantrex is not my boy....he is a tool just llike it says in his avatar... im sory but this realy pist me of im about to have a BF(bitch fit)...lol

Stupid ignorant fool, there is nothin gimoral about juicing i am a christian and if juicing was imoral i woud not be for it......Next Question.....BTW when you reply i will not reply back as my time is too presious to be wasting it on self proclaimed fools and tools like you....Oh and too tick you off 1 bit more....look at the map in my avatar...im willling to bet you are a hard core left wing liberal ...:) Cheers to you mate :)
Click to expand...


Bwahaha. English, motherfucker. Do you speak it. :FRlol:

Submission to Civil Authorities (1 Peter 2:13-17)

13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,

14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.

15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.

16 [Act] as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but [use it] as bondslaves of God. 17 Honor all men; love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.


You're a christian, yet you blatantly sin. God clearly says to obey man's law. Which obviously you aren't.

Hey its cool man, and you're not ticking me off. Actually, I find your nonsensical post quite funny. :FRlol: Or does God have an exception for you. Christians. LOL. God probably doesn't approve of your blatant homosexual tendencies either.
 
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1 more sentance to elevate your BP......" GOD BLESS AMERICA"
YES TOOL I SAID GOD GOD GOD.....GOD WILL ALWAYS STAY IN THIS COUNTRY.....GOD BLESS YOU TOO AS YOU NEED IT!
 
poantrex said:
Bwahaha. English, motherfucker. Do you speak it. :FRlol:

Submission to Civil Authorities (1 Peter 2:13-17)

13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,

14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.

15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.

16 [Act] as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but [use it] as bondslaves of God. 17 Honor all men; love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.


You're a christian, yet you blatantly sin. God clearly says to obey man's law. Which obviously you aren't.

Hey its cool man, and you're not ticking me off. Actually, I find your nonsensical post quite funny. :FRlol: Or does God have an exception for you. Christians. LOL.
Click to expand...

GOd didn't say that, some men did. Rosa Parks and others sinned then. LMAO
 
Okay, so you want the King James Version. ...whatever.

Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
 
Get yourself together first before you go telling other people what is right/wrong and claiming that they are violating their faith. If you were perfect, you'd be doing something else with your time rather than berating someone else about their morality. There is a certain story about casting the first stone - maybe you need to reread it rather than spending your time pissing on other people.
 
biteme said:
I don't agree with that. He probably has great genetics. One extra rep, blah, I've heard some huge bodybuilders say the secret is never to go to failure.
Click to expand...

I dont think that Ive ever heard of not going to failure.
 
Themachine01 said:
I dont think that Ive ever heard of not going to failure.
Click to expand...

I have but I've been working out 26 years and have heard all sorts of things. I remember seeing an interview on t.v with a top level pro and he said that he never went to failure. Something about increasing chances of injury I believe. I go to failure myself usually, but even when I don't, I don't see much difference as long as i bust my ass, I may cut it a few reps short on squats or leg presses so as not to take a chance on injury.
 
Themachine01 said:
I dont think that Ive ever heard of not going to failure.
Click to expand...
Actually, if you talk to the vast majority of strength and conditioning coaches in the world from Div1, Pro, and Olympic you will find that there are few things more commonly agreed upon than the fact that going to failure on any type of consistent basis is very counterproductive to growth. The only small subsection are the HIT guys who are a rarity and generally favor machines over the more common free weight varriants - and I don't think anyone disagrees that squats, deads, benches, and powercleans are bread and butter exercises when it comes to increaseing muscle mass and athletic performance so when I say HIT is one letter away from SHIT, you know where I stand on both their beliefs.

I shit you not on this. It's a BBing and gym rat thing primarily. The best in the business do not use failure on any type of consistency. They might choose a focused assistance lift and hit it hard for a few weeks (a la Westside/L. Simmons) but nothing like always going to failure on the majority of exercises.

EDIT:

This is a really great thread at meso. It is arranged in a series of topics. The author is one of the finest coaches in the country and he is as big and strong as they come. The whole thing is excellent reading and I highly recommend a complete read - it will be the best 20-30 minutes you spend for your training. The pertinent topic is #3 Dual Factor Theory (single factor being supercompensation which is the essence of training to failure but the typical BBer methods take it to extremes which are very very inhibitive to progress - meaning natural athletes won't do well and drug enhanced athletes will need to take quite a bit more drugs to get the same effect of a solid properly arranged training program). Thread is here: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=12
 
Last edited:
AAP said:
Date : January 9th

Name : Paul Baker

Height : 6'2"

Weight : 322

Incline Press : 315 x 20 reps

Cycle : 600mg Test Cypionate weekly

Training Philosophy : Never under 10 reps per set, never under 15 sets per exercise.

paulb7sw.jpg
Click to expand...


Cheeseburgers: 26

Pizza: Yes Please

j/k ---strong dude
 
Last edited:
I read that a lot of the bible was mistranslated from the Aramaic. 12 'Apostles' actually meant 12 protein shakes and the Three 'Wise Men' were 3cc of sustanon.

The press is always trying to convince everyone that 'less is more'. First they claim steroids 'don't work they only let you train harder' and now its all 'ok we lied, but you don't njeed much.'

How many times has a white coat pencil head claimed that your body can only use 60g of protein per day? And yet as bodybuilders get bigger... so does protein intake.

Pro's are bound to play down what they use. Now everyone knows that they ALL use AAS they can't deny it but they can say 'but I don't use much its all my hard training and diet.' Whatever. I'm not saying that they aren't naturals, or that they don't train hard but if AAS makes you bigger it follows that the biggest are bound to be using them,especially when money is at stake.

In the case of genetics yes people are different sizes and respond differently to training and AAS but because of that the 'its my genetics' is used as the biggest BS in all the BB magazines. Editors telling kids that MKr O looks lkike he does with natural training and genetics to sucker them into training with COMPLETELY unrealistic expectations.

A top US pro was on the UK tour a few years back, and I heard that he got cut out in clubs wasted on E and Cocaine. If Flex interviewed him thenext day it would have been 'I get an early night and eat some warm oats as that gives me slow release energy and the sleep helps blah blah blah'
 
Especially after all this Balco sh*t, don't expect to get a straight answer out of any athlete about drug use. I agree that those that doubt should go to Chad's board. There's some great articles there. And yes, the pros lie about what they use. There was a beef b/w Milos and Nasser that is documented there illustrating this point. And these are 2 pros! If they lie to each other, do you really think they're going to tell us what they are using? Let alone going in print and documenting it? No. They aren't. Just listen to Ulter and the rest that agree with him here. They use more than what is reported. The same goes for anyone that thinks that Arnold just used 45 mgs/D-Bol a day and little Primo! Ha!LOL! :rolleyes:
 
Wow.. I remember that knife and fork pic from a LONG ass time ago... :)

OH yea... hi everyone that may remember me... I'm back again.. :)
 
Wasn't Dorian suspected of using the IV drip method at times for his cycle?
 
hey guys, very good post i have to say...
maybe a little off topic, but just because I`m curious:

Do you have any info on what and how much the female athletes use? I dont mean the bodybuilders , but more like what the fitness/figure gals take.
That stuff would be really interesting to me. You always hear about 2 grams test this 3 grams deca that with the males. But there is not very much info on the women floating around.
 
Last edited:
Gooseman said:
hey guys, very good post i have to say...
maybe a little off topic, but just because I`m curious:

Do you have any info on what and how much the female athletes use? I dont mean the bodybuilders , but more like what the fitness/figure gals take.
That stuff would be really interesting to me. You always hear about 2 grams test this 3 grams deca that with the males. But there is not very much info on the women floating around.
Click to expand...


there is a womens forum bro
 
He was suspected of getting blood transfusions... I dunno about IV juice... it wouldn't make a difference...
 
StRoNg_WoN said:
He was suspected of getting blood transfusions... I dunno about IV juice... it wouldn't make a difference...
Click to expand...

It wouldn't make a difference if he was getting juiced through IV 10hours a day? I'm confused, did this guy get IV's dripping blood or juice?! :p
 
Madcow2 said:
Actually, if you talk to the vast majority of strength and conditioning coaches in the world from Div1, Pro, and Olympic you will find that there are few things more commonly agreed upon than the fact that going to failure on any type of consistent basis is very counterproductive to growth. The only small subsection are the HIT guys who are a rarity and generally favor machines over the more common free weight varriants - and I don't think anyone disagrees that squats, deads, benches, and powercleans are bread and butter exercises when it comes to increaseing muscle mass and athletic performance so when I say HIT is one letter away from SHIT, you know where I stand on both their beliefs.

I shit you not on this. It's a BBing and gym rat thing primarily. The best in the business do not use failure on any type of consistency. They might choose a focused assistance lift and hit it hard for a few weeks (a la Westside/L. Simmons) but nothing like always going to failure on the majority of exercises.

EDIT:

This is a really great thread at meso. It is arranged in a series of topics. The author is one of the finest coaches in the country and he is as big and strong as they come. The whole thing is excellent reading and I highly recommend a complete read - it will be the best 20-30 minutes you spend for your training. The pertinent topic is #3 Dual Factor Theory (single factor being supercompensation which is the essence of training to failure but the typical BBer methods take it to extremes which are very very inhibitive to progress - meaning natural athletes won't do well and drug enhanced athletes will need to take quite a bit more drugs to get the same effect of a solid properly arranged training program). Thread is here: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?t=12
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting the link, Madcow!!
 
It wouldn't make a difference if he was getting juiced through IV 10hours a day? I'm confused, did this guy get IV's dripping blood or juice?!

Well if his juice had a hour long 1/2 life... but 10 hours a day?! When would he workout?? HAHA! :)
 
Gooseman said:
hey guys, very good post i have to say...
maybe a little off topic, but just because I`m curious:

Do you have any info on what and how much the female athletes use? I dont mean the bodybuilders , but more like what the fitness/figure gals take.
That stuff would be really interesting to me. You always hear about 2 grams test this 3 grams deca that with the males. But there is not very much info on the women floating around.
Click to expand...

The figure and fitness girls that I help/have helped used around 50-75 mgs deca or Eq/wk in the off season. Precontest it's always var at 10-20 mgs/day and 100-200 mgs of Primo/wk. Some use winny instead of 'var, but I always steer them toward 'var. They also use clen as high as 180 mcg/day and T3 up to 75 mgs/day. Both precontest.
Most of these athletes use AAS to maintain muscle while dieting and to keep their metabolism high so they don't gain a lot of fat.
 
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