first test cycle advice

[gymjunkie09]

iv'e done a dies 2.0 cycle and a beast cycle earlier in the year, havn't touched anything in a few months and i'm looking to run my first test cycle in jan. I have a bottle of beast to kick off the cycle, and i'm looking to run test e. And my goal is for lean/dry bulk

Any advice on how long i should run the cycle?

Doses?

Pct?

or any other advice in general, Thanks!

 

[brandonp005]

whats your age/weight/height bro?

 

[gymjunkie09]

whats your age/weight/height bro?

30 5'8", 162-165 lbs, 11-13% bf, 2+ years training experience

 

[NeedMore]

First cycle? You will love the results!

My suggestion would be to run 500mg a week, with 4 caps of Beast and look into HCGenerate during the cycle and post cycle.

So given that, here is the universal post-cycle recovery program that will prime you natural test:
hcg
2 Weeks Before End of Cycle: hcg @ 1500IUs 3 times a week
1 Week Before End of Cycle: hcg @ 1500IUs 3 times a week
First Week post-cycle: hcg @ 1500IUs 2 times a week

Clomid
Day 1 Post Cycle: Clomid @ 300mg
Days 2-14: Clomid @ 100mg ED
Days 15-28: Clomid @ 50mg ED

nolva
Days 1-28: nolva @ 20mg ED

 

[brandonp005]

10-12 weeks of Test @ 500mg/wk is generally the norm....using the Beast @ 30mg/ed for the first 4 weeks
will really jumpstart the gains.

As far as PCT goes, I've made several nice recoveries using HcGenerate, Forged Post Cycle and Aromasin.

Forma Stanzol is another great product that you could look into throwing into your PCT. I'm haven't tried it but I'm going to use it my next time around.

 

[gymjunkie09]

10-12 weeks of Test @ 500mg/wk is generally the norm....using the Beast @ 30mg/ed for the first 4 weeks
will really jumpstart the gains.

As far as PCT goes, I've made several nice recoveries using HcGenerate, Forged Post Cycle and Aromasin.

Forma Stanzol is another great product that you could look into throwing into your PCT. I'm haven't tried it but I'm going to use it my next time around.

yeah i used Forma Stanzol for my pct after my cycle i was pretty impressed. Anyone tried need2guard while on cycle?

 

[ashah1985]

Why is everyone suggesting 500mgs of test to him? whats the logic behind this figure?

 

[XMAN.]

Why is everyone suggesting 500mgs of test to him? whats the logic behind this figure?

the logic is that 500mg is 5 times the testosterone of a young healthy genetically gifted person , and that's what a beginer can handle as a max dose and will benefit from it with a nice diet and a good training program , he can have massive gains with little sides, the minimum is 250mg as about twice or 2.5 times a human being.

 

[ashah1985]

the logic is that 500mg is 5 times the testosterone of a young healthy genetically gifted person , and that's what a beginer can handle as a max dose and will benefit from it with a nice diet and a good training program , he can have massive gains with little sides, the minimum is 250mg as about twice or 2.5 times a human being.

So shouldnt people with experiance recommend a amature try 250mgs first instead of doing straight 500. Anyway ive done up to 1000mgs of prop and shit you not 250mgs is just as effective without the moonface bloat.

 

[endojuicedr]

So you should be happy that all you need is 250mg and never more... however most people don't work like that. Anywhere between 250-500 is great for a first test cycle, we can debate all day on which is better and we would never settle it.

 

[moya]

250 is PLENTY for first... leaves room to increase later, avoid sides, and if a beginner cant make gains off double the max test of a normal healthy male... then there are other issues that need to be dealt with, like diet, rest and workout...

 

[XMAN.]

So shouldnt people with experiance recommend a amature try 250mgs first instead of doing straight 500. Anyway ive done up to 1000mgs of prop and shit you not 250mgs is just as effective without the moonface bloat.

actually i'm with u about that , i also prefer a beginner to start with a 250mg dose then mid cycle double it to 500mg, like:
week 1-5 : 250mg then week: 6-10: 500mg and at the end tappering down last 2 weeks 11 & 12 : week 11: 250mg , week 12 : 125mg and these 2 weeks includes hcg if not done during cycle, best way for not to crash.
this way a beginner will experience with 250mg at least the double of himself and with a proper diet and training everybody can gain on that with the least sides , then mid cycle when things start to stall just double it to 500mg which is still a moderate dosage and not much for sides.

btw even if the 250mg test is in an amp. and not in a 10ml vial i still split it into 2 halves and inject it twice a week, i put the other half in an empty sterile vial i buy from pharmacies or sometimes i manage to bring some from a hospital (the ones for blood tests).

 

[Discreet User]

First cycle? You will love the results!

My suggestion would be to run 500mg a week, with 4 caps of Beast and look into HCGenerate during the cycle and post cycle.

So given that, here is the universal post-cycle recovery program that will prime you natural test:
hcg
2 Weeks Before End of Cycle: hcg @ 1500IUs 3 times a week
1 Week Before End of Cycle: hcg @ 1500IUs 3 times a week
First Week post-cycle: hcg @ 1500IUs 2 times a week

Clomid
Day 1 Post Cycle: Clomid @ 300mg
Days 2-14: Clomid @ 100mg ED
Days 15-28: Clomid @ 50mg ED

nolva
Days 1-28: nolva @ 20mg ED

HCG does not need to be used in that high of dosages. 500iu - 3 times per week is plenty.

 

[gymjunkie09]

thanks for the tips bros, I'll probably start at 400mg and increase or decrease as needed, test e is twice a week right? so 200mg every tues and fri would be sufficient? I'm gonna have a lot of ?s I've done some research but I wanna make sure I get the most outta this without hurting myself lol

 

[tpeter]

250 is PLENTY for first... leaves room to increase later, avoid sides, and if a beginner cant make gains off double the max test of a normal healthy male... then there are other issues that need to be dealt with, like diet, rest and workout...

Come january im running my first cycle at 300mg but im also adding in VAR in the last 8 weeks.

I didnt want to go 500 off the bat. I want to see how i do with a small dose first.

 

[ashah1985]

thanks for the tips bros, I'll probably start at 400mg and increase or decrease as needed, test e is twice a week right? so 200mg every tues and fri would be sufficient? I'm gonna have a lot of ?s I've done some research but I wanna make sure I get the most outta this without hurting myself lol

Sounds good. What does your Pct look like?

 

[gymjunkie09]

Sounds good. What does your Pct look like?

still working on pct, havnt been on the site in awhile and have only ran otc cycles, ive done my research jus need to refresh my memory, but I will have that in order and on hand before starting anything

 

[XMAN.]

thanks for the tips bros, I'll probably start at 400mg and increase or decrease as needed, test e is twice a week right? so 200mg every tues and fri would be sufficient? I'm gonna have a lot of ?s I've done some research but I wanna make sure I get the most outta this without hurting myself lol

yes 200mg test e twice a week is the best approach , add hcg at 250 IU twice a week too ,use aromasin and clomid for pct ,good luck.

 

[gymjunkie09]

yes 200mg test e twice a week is the best approach , add hcg at 250 IU twice a week too ,use aromasin and clomid for pct ,good luck.

hcg throughout the whole cycle? and on the same day as the test or diff?

 

[XMAN.]

hcg throughout the whole cycle? and on the same day as the test or diff?

yes throughout the whole cycle (start week 2) , and yes on the same day as test u only have to pin twice a week this way, and stop it same as test at the end of the cycle, wait for a week and start pct.

 

[gymjunkie09]

yes throughout the whole cycle (start week 2) , and yes on the same day as test u only have to pin twice a week this way, and stop it same as test at the end of the cycle, wait for a week and start pct.

o.k.:.......so

weeks 1-12: 200-250 mg test twice a week

weeks 2-12: 250 I.u. hcg

weeks 1-4: 3 caps beast ed

weeks 1-4: forged liver support


am I missing anything here? maybe creatine, or should I run creatine for a couple months before cycle?

 

[JBEXT81]

Needto had a really good post about creatine and a waste of money or not (or something close to that was the title) do a search and im sure u'll find it. After reading that make ur decision

 

[XMAN.]

o.k.:.......so

weeks 1-12: 200-250 mg test twice a week

weeks 2-12: 250 I.u. hcg

weeks 1-4: 3 caps beast ed

weeks 1-4: forged liver support


am I missing anything here? maybe creatine, or should I run creatine for a couple months before cycle?

sounds good , but ur gains will stall on the same dose of test around week 8 , i think u should increase ur dose mid cycle if u want to continue gaining on a 12 week cycle or stick to 10 weeks max.
if u insist on running it for 12 weeks i think u should start with 250mg/week for the first half cycle week 1-6 (u r already running an oral and 250 is good for a first timer) then 500mg week 7-12. this way u won't saturate ur receptors from the begining and ur body won't adapt to the 500 dose from the start make use of the minimal dose first.

creatine is good to add as a supplement but i prefer if u keep it for later during pct , u'll need the extra help to preserve as much muscle as u can.

 

[gymjunkie09]

sounds good , but ur gains will stall on the same dose of test around week 8 , i think u should increase ur dose mid cycle if u want to continue gaining on a 12 week cycle or stick to 10 weeks max.
if u insist on running it for 12 weeks i think u should start with 250mg/week for the first half cycle week 1-6 (u r already running an oral and 250 is good for a first timer) then 500mg week 7-12. this way u won't saturate ur receptors from the begining and ur body won't adapt to the 500 dose from the start make use of the minimal dose first.

creatine is good to add as a supplement but i prefer if u keep it for later during pct , u'll need the extra help to preserve as much muscle as u can.

makes sense bro, so I'll run creatine 2 months before the cycle, then stop on cycle, then start again for pct. would I better off at 500 mg test and cutn the cycle to say 9 weeks or slowly increase through 12 like Uve suggested?

 

[XMAN.]

makes sense bro, so I'll run creatine 2 months before the cycle, then stop on cycle, then start again for pct. would I better off at 500 mg test and cutn the cycle to say 9 weeks or slowly increase through 12 like Uve suggested?

i think it's better if u slowly increase even at a 9 or 10 weeker too, since it's ur first time try the minimum amount first maybe u'll gain alot with that, wait for 5 weeks at least then if u feel u need more then increase it.
imo keep it at 10 week max at 250 and increase it to 500 mid cycle.
minimum dose with minimum time, learn how ur body respond to it then plan wisely ur future cycles, this will be ur TEST.

 

[gymjunkie09]

i think it's better if u slowly increase even at a 9 or 10 weeker too, since it's ur first time try the minimum amount first maybe u'll gain alot with that, wait for 5 weeks at least then if u feel u need more then increase it.
imo keep it at 10 week max at 250 and increase it to 500 mid cycle.
minimum dose with minimum time, learn how ur body respond to it then plan wisely ur future cycles, this will be ur TEST.

cool, Will do, appreciate all the advice. think I got it down, jus need to plan out pct now

 

[XMAN.]

cool, Will do, appreciate all the advice. think I got it down, jus need to plan out pct now

the best PCT is a combination of a low dose of an AI and a Serm the synergy works well with least sides.

AI: Aromasin (exemestane), Arimidex (anastrozole), Femara (letrozole)

Serm: Clomid (clomiphene), Nolvadex (Tamoxifen), Fareston (toremifene)

example of a 4 week PCT:
Aromasin week 1: 12.5mg (half a tab) /ED , week 2-4: 12.5mg/eod
Clomid week 1-4: 50mg (1 tab)/ED

 

[XMAN.]

btw u can use some supplements to help u recover and preserve ur muscles as much as possible , like creatine , tribulus ,nitric oxide....
and a small dose of Clenbuterol 20-40 mcg/ed (1 or 2 Tabs).

p.s : the addition of proviron 50mg/ed starting mid cycle will be beneficial too as it controls estrogen (which helps u recover faster later during pct) and give ur test a boost (as it lower SHBG and free up more test for anabolism)

 

[gymjunkie09]

btw u can use some supplements to help u recover and preserve ur muscles as much as possible , like creatine , tribulus ,nitric oxide....
and a small dose of Clenbuterol 20-40 mcg/ed (1 or 2 Tabs).

p.s : the addition of proviron 50mg/ed starting mid cycle will
be beneficial too as it controls estrogen (which helps u recover faster later during pct) and give ur test a boost (as it lower SHBG and free up more test for anabolism)

good shit bro, ive heard good things about proviron. ill throw it in the mix as well. I'm not big on n.o. products, I think they are jus overpriced caffeine, but I could be wrong. I've never tried needto's either

 

[Discreet User]

the best PCT is a combination of a low dose of an AI and a Serm the synergy works well with least sides.

AI: Aromasin (exemestane), Arimidex (anastrozole), Femara (letrozole)

Serm: Clomid (clomiphene), Nolvadex (Tamoxifen), Fareston (toremifene)

example of a 4 week PCT:
Aromasin week 1: 12.5mg (half a tab) /ED , week 2-4: 12.5mg/eod
Clomid week 1-4: 50mg (1 tab)/ED

AI/Serm combo worked great for me. I lost very little in PCT utilizing the following strategy:
HCG used during final 2 weeks of cycle + 1 week into PCT for a total of 3 weeks: 500iu 3 times per week.

Week 1: Aromasin 25mg ED & HCG 500iu 3 x per week
Weeks 2-3: Aromasin 12.5mg EOD & Nolvadex 10mg ED
Week 4: Nolvadex 10mg ED

 

[XMAN.]

AI/Serm combo worked great for me. I lost very little in PCT utilizing the following strategy:
HCG used during final 2 weeks of cycle + 1 week into PCT for a total of 3 weeks: 500iu 3 times per week.

Week 1: Aromasin 25mg ED & HCG 500iu 3 x per week
Weeks 2-3: Aromasin 12.5mg EOD & Nolvadex 10mg ED
Week 4: Nolvadex 10mg ED

not a bad protocol, but i still prefer running hcg during cycle, it's the same total amount but divided throughout the whole cycle, and it's confirmed by many studies now that it's the best way to use hcg effectively by mimicing the body natural LH secretion without the risk of desensitizing and the shutdown of the testes for prolonged time, u'll recover much faster.
as for aromasin for a test only cycle at this dose i think it's enough and clomid is more powerful than nolva , maybe more sides but not a concern at this low dose.

 

[Discreet User]

not a bad protocol, but i still prefer running hcg during cycle, it's the same total amount but divided throughout the whole cycle, and it's confirmed by many studies now that it's the best way to use hcg effectively by mimicing the body natural LH secretion without the risk of desensitizing and the shutdown of the testes for prolonged time, u'll recover much faster.
as for aromasin for a test only cycle at this dose i think it's enough and clomid is more powerful than nolva , maybe more sides but not a concern at this low dose.

I agree, it does appear that HCG use on-cycle is better supported by science than end of cycle, or post-cycle use.

The only reason I didn't use it throughout the cycle was because my doctor would only prescribe HCG for PCT use.

Here's a link to a good article on HCG and its positive effects on sperm production on-cycle: Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression -- Coviello et al. 90 (5): 2595 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

 

[XMAN.]

I agree, it does appear that HCG use on-cycle is better supported by science than end of cycle, or post-cycle use.

The only reason I didn't use it throughout the cycle was because my doctor would only prescribe HCG for PCT use.

Here's a link to a good article on HCG and its positive effects on sperm production on-cycle: Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression -- Coviello et al. 90 (5): 2595 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

how many times do u cycle and do pct a year?
just want to c how long do u stay suppressed b4 hitting hcg.
cuz when we talk about short cycles like 8-10 weekers like twice a year the hcg at the end of the cycle approach will do the job, but for ppl staying on all year long (HRT) and blast and cruise always it won't do.

 

[Discreet User]

how many times do u cycle and do pct a year?
just want to c how long do u stay suppressed b4 hitting hcg.
cuz when we talk about short cycles like 8-10 weekers like twice a year the hcg at the end of the cycle approach will do the job, but for ppl staying on all year long (HRT) and blast and cruise always it won't do.

I've been training for years, but just recently got into the AAS game.

This past summer I did my first cycle. 400mg Test Cyp per week & .5mg Arimidex EOD for 10 weeks.

Everything I do is doctor monitored with proper blood-work and prescribed by my local physician.

 

[XMAN.]

I've been training for years, but just recently got into the AAS game.

This past summer I did my first cycle. 400mg Test Cyp per week & .5mg Arimidex EOD for 10 weeks.

Everything I do is doctor monitored with proper blood-work and prescribed by my local physician.

good for u bro nice to know ur taking the proper measures , stay safe

 

[nikolaf7]

makes sense bro, so I'll run creatine 2 months before the cycle, then stop on cycle, then start again for pct. would I better off at 500 mg test and cutn the cycle to say 9 weeks or slowly increase through 12 like Uve suggested?

Creatine is the cheapest stuff in your cycle, why stopping it? If howewer you spend all money on other things than make sure u have it for pct, but if not - use it everyday 5gr a day, then on cycle bump it to 15gr, after cycle lower it back to 5-10gr and cruise all year.

If your not using some specialised stuff like need2guard, then be sure to stack some strong multivitamin/mineral(i use dymatize super multi), and omega 3 4gr a day.

And for me the most important - stack protein powder. Whey for post workout meal, blend(whey+casein) for every other time especially before sleep. It really helps if you cant eat that much, and you must eat much more

Stick with the 10 weeks solo test this time and forget about orals...there is a place for them in you second cycle

 

[gymjunkie09]

Creatine is the cheapest stuff in your cycle, why stopping it? If howewer you spend all money on other things than make sure u have it for pct, but if not - use it everyday 5gr a day, then on cycle bump it to 15gr, after cycle lower it back to 5-10gr and cruise all year.

If your not using some specialised stuff like need2guard, then be sure to stack some strong multivitamin/mineral(i use dymatize super multi), and omega 3 4gr a day.

And for me the most important - stack protein powder. Whey for post workout meal, blend(whey+casein) for every other time especially before sleep. It really helps if you cant eat that much, and you must eat much more

Stick with the 10 weeks solo test this time and forget about orals...there is a place for them in you second cycle

yeah I changed my mind about the creatine, I'm gonna grab the creatine stack that needtobuildmuscle put together, looks legit. and I always have whey protein on hand, just filled my kitchen with brown rice, broccoli, eggs, pb, steak an chicken......time to get my weight up bro

 

[gymjunkie09]

btw u can use some supplements to help u recover and preserve ur muscles as much as possible , like creatine , tribulus ,nitric oxide....
and a small dose of Clenbuterol 20-40 mcg/ed (1 or 2 Tabs).

p.s : the addition of proviron 50mg/ed starting mid cycle will be beneficial too as it controls estrogen (which helps u recover faster later during pct) and give ur test a boost (as it lower SHBG and free up more test for anabolism)

is it still safe to run the beastdrol for the first for weeks when adding proviron mid cycle?

 

[Sully169]

while i am not as experienced as the other guys on this site i am currently on a cycle (monitored by a doc) this is my first test cycle ... ran a deca and winni about 5 years ago .. good gains but no pct and crashed ... but this time running hgh and test .... feeling great and body is just being to change .... hgh (3 ius daily) about 4 months deep and 6 weeks on the test (300mg weekly) ... was using creatine monohydrate 5 g daily along with protein and glutamine but i was retaining so much water ... my fingers were swelling and wasnt feeling good at due to it ... i am thinking i am going to incorporate it into my pct to help me keep my strength gains ... just wanted to throw my 2 cents into this very informative thread ...

stats: 225lb 6 ft 15% bf
10 years on and off training ... 28 yo

pct : since i am being monitored by a doc i havent discussed anything yet but i hear all about using hcg through out the whole process ... im thinking i wanted to add that ... and also thinking about winni ... anything thoughts or suggestions .... most likely stay with what i am doing for this time around right???

 

[Discreet User]

while i am not as experienced as the other guys on this site i am currently on a cycle (monitored by a doc) this is my first test cycle ... ran a deca and winni about 5 years ago .. good gains but no pct and crashed ... but this time running hgh and test .... feeling great and body is just being to change .... hgh (3 ius daily) about 4 months deep and 6 weeks on the test (300mg weekly) ... was using creatine monohydrate 5 g daily along with protein and glutamine but i was retaining so much water ... my fingers were swelling and wasnt feeling good at due to it ... i am thinking i am going to incorporate it into my pct to help me keep my strength gains ... just wanted to throw my 2 cents into this very informative thread ...

stats: 225lb 6 ft 15% bf
10 years on and off training ... 28 yo

pct : since i am being monitored by a doc i havent discussed anything yet but i hear all about using hcg through out the whole process ... im thinking i wanted to add that ... and also thinking about winni ... anything thoughts or suggestions .... most likely stay with what i am doing for this time around right???

Talk to your Doc about an Aromasin & Nolvadex combination for pct.

Regarding HCG, the consensus these days is that HCG should be used low-dose throughout the cycle. It is commonly accepted that 500iu is the maximum that should be injected at any one time. However, some argue that doses as low as 300iu are the maximum that should be used in one dose. It is not risk free. The risk of natural LH desensitization does exist, and the risk increases with the amount used.

I recently used hcg with great success. Final two weeks of cycle, plus 1 week post cycle for a total of 3 weeks at 3 injections per week. 500iu per injection.