First cycle- PRIMO/TEST

[HOV]

First cycle- PRIMO/ TEST (600/500mg)

25 years old been training seriously since 2005. Almost no body fat- good genetics- so over the years I've established a real solid base.

This will be my first cycle. I originally wanted to run just test-e for 12 weeks @500mg ew. Legit primo is accessible and since it's so hard to find real stuff I wanted to take advantage of it. I want to add 600mg of primo. So the cycle will look as follows:
1-12 testE 500mg
1-12 primobolan 600mg

15-18 nolvadex (40/40/20/20)
13-18 hcgenerate

Anyone thoughts ?

 

[training700]

Might as well give stats such as height, weight, bf %.
I don't see anything wrong with it in particular at all. Some will suggest low dose clomid along with hcgenerate. Run it through last part of cycle as well keep atrophy at bay. I don't mind nolvadex some makes em feel like shit.
I like some daa towards end pct and beyond as well respond well to it personally and is pretty cheap.

Sent from my DROID3 using EliteFitness

 

[training700]

Also start pct closer to last injection
Also have an AI on hand during cycle

Sent from my DROID3 using EliteFitness

 

[HOV]

i thought your supposed to wait two weeks from last pin. if i run it through the end of week 12 than weeks 13/14 would be the 2 week waiting period? why would i start it sooner than that?

i really dont think ill need an AI with such a low dose of test

so run the HCGenerate from weeks 10-18?

i really dont see anything wrong with this cyle either i just wanted to get some feedback fom people who have actually ran this cycle before.. especially as their first cycle
(results? sides? maintaining gains?)

 

[A Soft Koala]

i thought your supposed to wait two weeks from last pin. if i run it through the end of week 12 than weeks 13/14 would be the 2 week waiting period? why would i start it sooner than that?

i really dont think ill need an AI with such a low dose of test

so run the HCGenerate from weeks 10-18?

i really dont see anything wrong with this cyle either i just wanted to get some feedback fom people who have actually ran this cycle before.. especially as their first cycle
(results? sides? maintaining gains?)

Hcgenerate on cycle, forma stanzol during pct. pct starts two weeks after last pin. Get an AI, or play Russian roulette with gyno...your choice. Personally I would leave the primo out the first cycle...if you get bad sides how would you know which compound is giving them to you when you haven't done either by themselves first?

PCT:
Formastanzol
Clomid 25/25/25/25
Unleashed
Post cycle
DAA 3/3/3/3
Creatine

Results/sides/maintaining gains...all of this depends on your diet, training, sleep, supps.

 

[dylangemelli]

i like the fact that you seem to realize that primo needs to be ran for 12 weeks to get the most out of it however nolva is not a pct at all bro... not a good choice and should not be seen as a pct... i think the advice given above was sound as to running test alone for your first cycle just to see how you react but i dont have a big problem with you adding primo... i do have a problem with you saying you don't need to at least have an AI on hand... that's just a stupid idea in all honesty...

i would run low dose clomid 25/12.5/12.5/12.5... unleashed, forged pct

start your pct 2 weeks after your last pin...

yes, run your hcgenerate on cycle....

forma stanzol is probably enough for an AI with this cycle...

 

[sojoocy]

I'm using formeron 1 pump am 1 pump pm and that's working quite well as an AI on 400mgs test prop, but I have Arimidex on hand anyway, best to be safe than breasty

I wouldn't be able to get my head around doing more than 1 compound first cycle, enough to think about with your first, and you get to see how you react to test alone

 

[Essie]

Yeap ... I have said it MANY times on here, and I'll say it again:

Test only for a first cycle, and a 2nd, and a 3rd. You want to start with 500mg/wk, which is fine, though I persoanlly advise people at 350mg/wk on cycle 1, up to 450 on cycle 2 and then end cycle 3 on 500mg/wk. That way you don't numb out your receptors too soon in the pinning and training stage of your life. Following those 3 cycles you can start adding compounds to your cycles one by one ... that way you KNOW how your body reacts to Test, so when you add DBol, or A-Bombs to the cycle on No.4, and something feels off, you will know that it is NOT the Test as you have run it 3 times already. I love that you obviously did some research and, like Dylan said, are aware that Primo needs to be run for 12 wks.

Then, as for not having an AI on hand ... I know of guys who are so susceptable (holy sh*t ... suddenly I cannot spell) to Gyno that they start showing swollen nipples after just 4 weeks on 250mg/wk of Test. You have never taken gear, so you don't know how your body will react to it. I am one of the lucky ones ... even on 750mg/wk of Test, I have no problem with Gyno, but I know that because I started off in the correct manner and I STILL have an AI on handfor every cycle, even when I just do a 500mg/wk Test cycle ... the human body is a wonderful, weird and sometimes scary thing and things can change quickly without notice or reason. I would STRONGLY suggest to have an AI on hand, just for in case ... then, following this cycle, you'll know how your body reacts to the Gyno-stimulating hormone build-up in your body at that specific dosage. You could be lucky and not need it on the first cycle, but then when you up the dosage on your 2nd cycle, your body might just react differently and you could require it then. PLEASE have an AI on hand for all your cycles until you reach the dosage that you feel would be the one you are unlikely to exceed and if your body does not show signs of Gyno then, you can be brave and not have it on hand anymore.

PCT ... Nolva with HCGenerate is better than not having anything, that is for sure, but Nolva is not all others make it out to be. Rather replace the Nolva with Forma-Stanzol.

Good luck.

 

[gymjunkie09]

25 years old been training seriously since 2005. Almost no body fat- good genetics- so over the years I've established a real solid base.

This will be my first cycle. I originally wanted to run just test-e for 12 weeks @500mg ew. Legit primo is accessible and since it's so hard to find real stuff I wanted to take advantage of it. I want to add 600mg of primo. So the cycle will look as follows:
1-12 testE 500mg
1-12 primobolan 600mg

15-18 nolvadex (40/40/20/20)
13-18 hcgenerate

Anyone thoughts ?

I don't see anything wrong with running primo with your first cycle, just be sure to heat up the primo before pinning and I'd recommend pinning delts because primo hurts like nothing else....I made the mistake of pinning my quad my first run with primo, bad mistake

 

[HOV]

let me clarify..like ive said ive been seriously lifting for 7 years now and even though i have never ran a cycle im pretty knowledgable when it comes to sauce, just not as familiar with these newer OTC prodcuts that people on the internet seem to be hyping up..

as for people saying dont use primo with the test because you dont know what the sides are....well primo doesnt armotize and has literally close to no side effects...which is why im choosing to run 600mg instead of 400mg...seems primo is the only steroid where more actually is better at the sime time the "sides" dont increase along with the mg. so obv if i do get any sides it will be from the test. but in all honesty people run up ALOT more test with little sides, and 500mg seems to be the best risk/reward for a starter.

why start with 350mg of test? your natural test is gonna be shut down, your nuts are still gonna shrink, but you wont see the gains you will with 500mg?

i understand, and would never run anthing like eq, or deca with a first cycle but since primo is so hard to find i wanted to take advantage of it... the reasons given just dont really make sense to me

in all honestly i would probably just run this cycle maybe 3 or 4 times or until i stop gettin gains, ive heard amazing things about primo when done the right way (long enough, and 400+mg)

and i can get arimidex ill have it on hand but i HIGHLY doubt ill be gettin gyno or even real bloat off 500mg of test..i think the primo might dry me out a bit plus like i said im probably 5% body fat i dont know the number but im all muscle...not trying to sound cocky but, really.

this is still open for discussion and i want to hear more opinions...

no orals btw..ever.

 

[Essie]

^^^^^ I welcomed my quads to the world of pinning with Prop ...

 

[HOV]

gymjunkie- thanks for the advice, ill be hitting glutes

can you take Forma-Stanzol with nolvadex- im taking nolva reguardless bc ive heard some bad things about clomids and id rather stay away.

 

[sojoocy]

^^^^^ I welcomed my quads to the world of pinning with Prop ...

With the prop I have quad is the best place for it lol, barely any pip at all, delts on the other hand........

 

[A Soft Koala]

Essie gave you good advice on receptors. Dylan said he wouldn't mind you taking it as long as you have an AI on hand. The reasoning you should always have an AI on hand, even for non-aromatizing compounds....rebound. Besides that, test does aromatize...so you should have it anyways. One more thing...you can read logs, hear results, research all the case studies....but until you try it yourself you have no idea how your body will react to it. That's why when I saw you put "I highly doubt I would get gyno," I cringed...

I like how you have done a decent amount of research though. When you do this cycle you should log it.

 

[Cali72]

I don't see anything wrong with running primo with your first cycle, just be sure to heat up the primo before pinning and I'd recommend pinning delts because primo hurts like nothing else....I made the mistake of pinning my quad my first run with primo, bad mistake

Gotta agree with junkie here.
I was limping and could not Bend my leg for 3 weeks after pinning primo in the quad.

 

[HOV]

koala- i understand and agree with evertyhing your saying, thats why i said i have arimidex on hand, but i was just sayin i doubt ill need it bcause im so low in body fat, really dont think im genetically predisposed to it. as for estrogen rebound, i doubt it will be much of a problem that normally doesnt happen to people after once cycle.. Besides this post wasnt really supposed to be focused the actual mg used in the cycle for a first time user. primo is the only compound i would even consider stacking with test for my first cycle because of the sides are almost non exisistance, and it seems like they compliment eachother for a synergstic effect.

would it really make that much of a difference on my receptors if i did 3 or 4 cycles in a row using the same primo/ test combo as above rather than me slowly building my way up to 500mg of test ( to me theres not point in doing 350-450). but im always trying to educate myself so hearing it from knowledgable people rather than some 18yr old punk behind a computer makes a real difference. i just wanted to hear peoples thoughts and i appreciate all the responses so far

i will consider using a log for my results, just not a fan of posting pics of myself on the internet. but as of right now looks like theres no reason i shouldnt try running primo/testE @(600/500mg) pw as my first cycle

 

[gymjunkie09]

gymjunkie- thanks for the advice, ill be hitting glutes

can you take Forma-Stanzol with nolvadex- im taking nolva reguardless bc ive heard some bad things about clomids and id rather stay away.

I don't see why not, personally i've never used nolva...I'd also stay aways from glutes with primo, I did it once and couldn't sleep on my back for 3 days lol. I'm telling you primo has a huge bite to it, stick to your delts

 

[dylangemelli]

koala- i understand and agree with evertyhing your saying, thats why i said i have arimidex on hand, but i was just sayin i doubt ill need it bcause im so low in body fat, really dont think im genetically predisposed to it. as for estrogen rebound, i doubt it will be much of a problem that normally doesnt happen to people after once cycle.. Besides this post wasnt really supposed to be focused the actual mg used in the cycle for a first time user. primo is the only compound i would even consider stacking with test for my first cycle because of the sides are almost non exisistance, and it seems like they compliment eachother for a synergstic effect.

would it really make that much of a difference on my receptors if i did 3 or 4 cycles in a row using the same primo/ test combo as above rather than me slowly building my way up to 500mg of test ( to me theres not point in doing 350-450). but im always trying to educate myself so hearing it from knowledgable people rather than some 18yr old punk behind a computer makes a real difference. i just wanted to hear peoples thoughts and i appreciate all the responses so far

i will consider using a log for my results, just not a fan of posting pics of myself on the internet. but as of right now looks like theres no reason i shouldnt try running primo/testE @(600/500mg) pw as my first cycle

man i've got to tell you, some of your comments are really just, "fucked up".... You have never ran a cycle before so how can you say that "i doubt it will be much of a problem that normally doesnt happen to people after once cycle" How do you know this when you've never ran a cycle before... There's so many people that have had a problem after, yes, 1 cycle... Also, just because your obdy fat is low doesn't mean shit man... Where are you coming up with this shit? If you want to take a risk, thats up to you and from the sounds of it, you think you know it all already so your going to take that risk... I hope it works out for you but I just am really bothered by the things your saying when you have never even ran a cycle... I also can't seem to figure out why you keep going back to nolva... some people just have to learn the hard way... hopefully your not one of them, but from the sounds of it, you are...

 

[gymjunkie09]

man i've got to tell you, some of your comments are really just, "fucked up".... You have never ran a cycle before so how can you say that "i doubt it will be much of a problem that normally doesnt happen to people after once cycle" How do you know this when you've never ran a cycle before... There's so many people that have had a problem after, yes, 1 cycle... Also, just because your obdy fat is low doesn't mean shit man... Where are you coming up with this shit? If you want to take a risk, thats up to you and from the sounds of it, you think you know it all already so your going to take that risk... I hope it works out for you but I just am really bothered by the things your saying when you have never even ran a cycle... I also can't seem to figure out why you keep going back to nolva... some people just have to learn the hard way... hopefully your not one of them, but from the sounds of it, you are...

although I agree with you here, remember primo is a dht and he most likely woudn't need an A.I. with this cycle, although you should always have letro on hand ALWAYS!! and will def need something in pct for estrogen rebound, post cycle/unlseashed combo with forms should be good

 

[HOV]

man i've got to tell you, some of your comments are really just, "fucked up".... You have never ran a cycle before so how can you say that "i doubt it will be much of a problem that normally doesnt happen to people after once cycle" How do you know this when you've never ran a cycle before... There's so many people that have had a problem after, yes, 1 cycle... Also, just because your obdy fat is low doesn't mean shit man... Where are you coming up with this shit? If you want to take a risk, thats up to you and from the sounds of it, you think you know it all already so your going to take that risk... I hope it works out for you but I just am really bothered by the things your saying when you have never even ran a cycle... I also can't seem to figure out why you keep going back to nolva... some people just have to learn the hard way... hopefully your not one of them, but from the sounds of it, you are...

listen skinny mini- ive been lifting for years and allthoguh i never chose to run a cycle doesnt mean that i didnt absorb all the knowledge i can from the people surrounding me, some of which compete. i came to this forum just for some additional references and opinions, especialy when to incorporate post cycle/unleashed (while taking nova or after) and also HCGenerate? i wanted to hear from the people who have actually used primo and test at the levels i was going to run them...


and yes it does matter that im very low in body-usually people with higher % of body fat are predisposed and have a greater chance of getting gyno. not saying that i cant get it, but odds are extremely low. but once again i said ill have arimidex on hand but im not gonna take a drug that i dont need unless i have to.

i keep going back to nolva because its tried and true...i said i was using hcgenerate as well but now i dont know to use it for post cylcle like i originally intended or during cycle?. heard bad thigns about clomid side effects so i choose to stay away.

...anyway back to the original topic..... THOUGHTS/COMMENTS ABOUT PRIMO/TEST-E (600/500mg) as a first cycle?

a sincere thank you to those who have positively contributed, those were very valuable and helpful posts ill be looking into additional pct supps

 

[HOV]

although I agree with you here, remember primo is a dht and he most likely woudn't need an A.I. with this cycle, although you should always have letro on hand ALWAYS!! and will def need something in pct for estrogen rebound, post cycle/unlseashed combo with forms should be good

so gym junkie- should i use hcgenerate for the last 4 weeks leading up to PCT than discontinue and use novadex with post cycle/unleashed AND from stanzol? im very weary using otc supps for pct allthough i have been reading great things, thats why im set on somehow incorporating nova into this mix...

1-12 test e 500mg
1-12 primo 600mg

11-14 HCGenerate
15-18 nova 40/40/20/20
15-18 OR 19-22 post cycle/unleashed combo?

 

[A Soft Koala]

listen skinny mini- ive been lifting for years and allthoguh i never chose to run a cycle doesnt mean that i didnt absorb all the knowledge i can from the people surrounding me, some of which compete. i came to this forum just for some additional references and opinions, especialy when to incorporate post cycle/unleashed (while taking nova or after) i wanted to hear from the people who have actually used primo and test at the levels i was going to run them...


and yes it does matter that im very low in body-usually people with higher % of body fat are predisposed and have a greater chance of getting gyno. not saying that i cant get it, but odds are extremely low. but once again i said ill have arimidex on hand but im not gonna take a drug that i dont need unless i have to.

i keep going back to nolva because its tried and true...i said i was using hcgenerate as well, and possible some other otc products from this site that people seeem to be raving about. heard bad thigns about clomid side effects so i choose to stay away.

...anyway back to the original topic..... THOUGHTS/COMMENTS ABOUT PRIMO/TEST-E (600/500mg) as a first cycle?

a sincere thank you to those who have positively contributed, those were very valuable and helpful posts ill be looking into additional pct supps

Rofl. Noob is calling out a 6'1, 201lb, 6.5% bf vet on how he is small... Yeah go F yourself HOV.

 

[HOV]

lol dam you guys get defensive, just dont understand how my commments are fucked up...

im not calling him out koala , relax lil bit...

didnt know he was king kong just having some fun

 

[dylangemelli]

listen skinny mini- ive been lifting for years and allthoguh i never chose to run a cycle doesnt mean that i didnt absorb all the knowledge i can from the people surrounding me, some of which compete. i came to this forum just for some additional references and opinions, especialy when to incorporate post cycle/unleashed (while taking nova or after) and also HCGenerate? i wanted to hear from the people who have actually used primo and test at the levels i was going to run them...


and yes it does matter that im very low in body-usually people with higher % of body fat are predisposed and have a greater chance of getting gyno. not saying that i cant get it, but odds are extremely low. but once again i said ill have arimidex on hand but im not gonna take a drug that i dont need unless i have to.

i keep going back to nolva because its tried and true...i said i was using hcgenerate as well but now i dont know to use it for post cylcle like i originally intended or during cycle?. heard bad thigns about clomid side effects so i choose to stay away.

...anyway back to the original topic..... THOUGHTS/COMMENTS ABOUT PRIMO/TEST-E (600/500mg) as a first cycle?

a sincere thank you to those who have positively contributed, those were very valuable and helpful posts ill be looking into additional pct supps

lollllll your not going to be around too long... i can assure you this... im one of the last people you should ever try to call out...


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy

 

[HOV]

lollllll your not going to be around too long... i can assure you this... im one of the last people you should ever try to call out...

how am i calling you out? im defending my comments that you said were fucked up. they were in no way outlandish, nor were they out of context.

 

[dylangemelli]

lollllll your not going to be around too long... i can assure you this... im one of the last people you should ever try to call out...

how am i calling you out? im defending my comments that you said were fucked up. they were in no way outlandish, nor were they out of context.

calling me skinny mini?? really, not calling me out? lolll

 

[gymjunkie09]

so gym junkie- should i use hcgenerate for the last 4 weeks leading up to PCT than discontinue and use novadex with post cycle/unleashed AND from stanzol? im very weary using otc supps for pct allthough i have been reading great things, thats why im set on somehow incorporating nova into this mix...

1-12 test e 500mg
1-12 primo 600mg

11-14 HCGenerate
15-18 nova 40/40/20/20
15-18 OR 19-22 post cycle/unleashed combo?

you can use the hcgenerate like above or run it rigght hrough pct, personally I would run it 6-14, ther rest looks good....forma wouldn't hurt but you should be fine with what you have listed although I believe clomid at 25mg/ed is a better option

 

[HOV]

calling me skinny mini?? really, not calling me out? lolll

LOL my bad bruh, it was sarcastic no disrespect

i would def like to learn and become part of this community rather than be banned by the sauce squad

....if anyone feels like answering- **do i start post cycle/unleased 2 weeks after pin with the nolva, OR do i wait 6 weeks from last pin until im done with nova/clomid and than start it?**

im thinking it might make sense starting it after the nolva just incase theres any estrogen rebound from it

def gonna run HCGenerate weeks 6-14 like gymunkie said, and im going to start looking into clomid possibley 12mg EOD or 25 ED

 

[TravFlex91]

LOL my bad bruh, it was sarcastic no disrespect

i would def like to learn and become part of this community rather than be banned by the sauce squad

....if anyone feels like answering- **do i start post cycle/unleased 2 weeks after pin with the nolva, OR do i wait 6 weeks from last pin until im done with nova/clomid and than start it?**

im thinking it might make sense starting it after the nolva just incase theres any estrogen rebound from it

def gonna run HCGenerate weeks 6-14 like gymunkie said, and im going to start looking into clomid possibley 12mg EOD or 25 ED

Your pct could be like this

Hcgenerate 6-14
Post cycle and unleashed start 2 weeks after last pin(14)
Also Clomid 25mg a day from 14-18.
25mg at the MOST.

Btw Nolva is shit and for noobs.


"You mean there's more to life than being hard as fuck?"

 

[TravFlex91]

calling me skinny mini?? really, not calling me out? lolll

K is this kid serious D?
I remember when I benched 205 for max.... Lolol =)


"You mean there's more to life than being hard as fuck?"

 

[gymjunkie09]

Your pct could be like this

Hcgenerate 6-14
Post cycle and unleashed start 2 weeks after last pin(14)
Also Clomid 25mg a day from 14-18.
25mg at the MOST.

Btw Nolva is shit and for noobs.


"You mean there's more to life than being hard as fuck?"

just like this bro, you can throw some daa in there and it won't help and its fairly cheap, then follow with bridge, sarms, peptides...these are all good options to run in between cycles, shit you can run all three if you want. Dylan would be the one talk to about the sarms but you didn't exactly make a good first impression with him lol

 

[HOV]

not sure what to think any more... just got totally different advice from my doctor whos also a professional body builder lol. he just got his IFB card and has been juicing for years. he swares no OTC supplements are not as good as this. i value his advice, but i also value the advice i get from the forum members here... maybe someone can comment on this

1000mcg of HCG at the end of cycle EOD for 20 days (and thats not a typo mcg=micrograms)
nolvadex- 40/20/20/20
clomid- 100/50/50/50

- just worries me a little that i can get two totally different answers for my PTC protocol. i already have the nova and clomid btw, but i have no problem adding post cycle/ unleashed or even hcgenerate if it will be a better combo..doc just said i dont need it

 

[TravFlex91]

not sure what to think any more... just got totally different advice from my doctor whos also a professional body builder lol. he just got his IFB card and has been juicing for years. he swares no OTC supplements are not as good as this. i value his advice, but i also value the advice i get from the forum members here... maybe someone can comment on this

1000mcg of HCG at the end of cycle EOD for 20 days (and thats not a typo mcg=micrograms)
nolvadex- 40/20/20/20
clomid- 100/50/50/50

- just worries me a little that i can get two totally different answers for my PTC protocol. i already have the nova and clomid btw, but i have no problem adding post cycle/ unleashed or even hcgenerate if it will be a better combo..doc just said i dont need it

Most OTC supps for pct will lick balls.
This isn't the case with the supps we have recommended.
Nolva is fucking shit and no disrespect to your dr.. But seriously is he retarded?
Clomid is a drug like any other an if your doses get too high(which isn't hard) you get terrible sides. I wouldn't exceed 12mg eod.
But fuck Nolva.. That shit is awful

 

[TravFlex91]

Most OTC supps for pct will lick balls.
This isn't the case with the supps we have recommended.
Nolva is fucking shit and no disrespect to your dr.. But seriously is he retarded?
Clomid is a drug like any other an if your doses get too high(which isn't hard) you get terrible sides. I wouldn't exceed 12mg eod.
But fuck Nolva.. That shit is awful

And to avoid confusion I said 25mg Ed at the MOST.
Varying on your mood and body post cycle.
The best recommendation I've seen at EF so far is 12mg eod.

 

[HOV]

trav- thanks for the reply. i fully understand what you are saying, its just hard for me to comprehend when a professional who has been using steroids for years swears by this PCT. i thought i was set on the above PCT until i talked to this guy. now im buggin out a little bc i feel like im back to scratch. i just want a complete recovey. being that i already have both nova and clomid what is your reccommendation? can i add post cyle and unleased, or will that be toooo much

 

[TravFlex91]

trav- thanks for the reply. i fully understand what you are saying, its just hard for me to comprehend when a professional who has been using steroids for years swears by this PCT. i thought i was set on the above PCT until i talked to this guy. now im buggin out a little bc i feel like im back to scratch. i just want a complete recovey. being that i already have both nova and clomid what is your reccommendation? can i add post cyle and unleased, or will that be toooo much

My recommendation is don't take the fuckong Nolva.
Do the pct I listed. With 12mg of Clomid eod.

 

[Muscleaddict]

My recommendation is don't take the fuckong Nolva.
Do the pct I listed. With 12mg of Clomid eod.

Clomid tablets are 50mg. Normal dose has always been around 100mg. No doc treating hypogonadism would advise that. Where'd you come up with 12mg clomid from?

 

[TravFlex91]

Clomid tablets are 50mg. Normal dose has always been around 100mg. No doc treating hypogonadism would advise that. Where'd you come up with 12mg clomid from?

100mgs isn't average. Nobody should run 100mgs of Clomid. Honestly,
And I read that from reliable sources on here. I remember Steve having a detailed posting about It somewhere.

 

[TravFlex91]

Clomid tablets are 50mg. Normal dose has always been around 100mg. No doc treating hypogonadism would advise that. Where'd you come up with 12mg clomid from?

And your debate is that hypogonadism is similar to the atrophy experienced while on cycle?
It's caused by temporary imbalance.
It's not a syndrome or disease.

 

[Muscleaddict]

My point is 12mg clomid won't do jack shit. There are many clinical trials on clomid and the effect on lh/fsh. Lots of docs treat steroid induced hypogonadism who have experience with steroids themselves. 12mg clomid? Lol maybe I am missing something but when it is run that low by docs it is for long term treatment. With the other pct chems the op is running he might as well drop the clomid or up it to at least half a tab.

 

[TravFlex91]

My point is 12mg clomid won't do jack shit. There are many clinical trials on clomid and the effect on lh/fsh. Lots of docs treat steroid induced hypogonadism who have experience with steroids themselves. 12mg clomid? Lol maybe I am missing something but when it is run that low by docs it is for long term treatment. With the other pct chems the op is running he might as well drop the clomid or up it to at least half a tab.

K well your point is invalid. I don't know if this is your first aas forum or you just don't care to listen. There are people here mods in particular who know a hell of a lot more than you or I combined about the topic.
You want to deal with the shitty sides of high doses of Clomid? Be my guest bro. But to be honest your "point" is invalid.

 

[RADAR]

Hov i sincerely hopefully you will be more respectful when you come back, Dylan was trying to help but name calling here is not acceptable.

 

[stevesmi]

not sure what to think any more... just got totally different advice from my doctor whos also a professional body builder lol. he just got his IFB card and has been juicing for years. he swares no OTC supplements are not as good as this. i value his advice, but i also value the advice i get from the forum members here... maybe someone can comment on this

1000mcg of HCG at the end of cycle EOD for 20 days (and thats not a typo mcg=micrograms)
nolvadex- 40/20/20/20
clomid- 100/50/50/50

- just worries me a little that i can get two totally different answers for my PTC protocol. i already have the nova and clomid btw, but i have no problem adding post cycle/ unleashed or even hcgenerate if it will be a better combo..doc just said i dont need it

easy answer.. your doc who is a pro doesn't cycle. he just stays on.

i always find it interesting the guys who swear by nolva/clomid for PCT are the same fools who go on TRT at a young age and then start lecturing people to run the shitty PCT they ran which caused them to have to go on TRT.. you don't see the connection with that?

the guys like me and the vets on this forum who ACTUALLY CYCLE off and on hate nolva and clomid PCT cause we all tried it too and it didn't do shit for us.

now you have gotten great advice from above.. just go back and read what trav said to run for PCT.. this is the pct i run everytime and i recover and i have bloods to prove it.

also during cycle if you run something that aromatizes you need to run a light AI period. maybe a lil adex, some forma. you don't need to run hardcore stuff like letro why? cause you want to go into pct with control of your estrogen levels. BUT you don't want to criple your estrogen either. also you should run hcg or hcgenerate during cause you dont' want to have raisin nuts going into pct either.

also lose the attitude when you come back.. you never even posted your stats which is against the rules to begin with. so post a pic or your height/weight/body fat stats. or you will be timed out again. and please stop trying to troll and second guess people, its gets annoying. like going fishing and watching some dude catch fish over and over again and then asking him for advice but then second guessing what he says when his way is working

the main reason its stupid to run clomid/nolva pct is cause they both act like AI's and it makes no sense to cripple your estrogen during pct, its a very old style way to pct.

 

[stevesmi]

My point is 12mg clomid won't do jack shit. There are many clinical trials on clomid and the effect on lh/fsh. Lots of docs treat steroid induced hypogonadism who have experience with steroids themselves. 12mg clomid? Lol maybe I am missing something but when it is run that low by docs it is for long term treatment. With the other pct chems the op is running he might as well drop the clomid or up it to at least half a tab.

taking clomid along with the pct that trav listed is ample pct for healthy adult men bodybuilders who cycle.

100mg clomid a day will turn you into a weeping woman and probably kill your libido. been there and done that.

i have bloods showing 12mg EOD or ED of clomid ALONG WITH the other things trav listed works AND has little to no side effects. see my tren log.

whats the point of PCT if you will feel like shit? thats why you see guys just give up on cycling and just stay on

also yes clomid comes in 50mg tabs.. you cut it in half, and cut it in half again. and boom you have 12mg tabs. its easy to do. i would rather take NOTHING for pct than have to endure 100mg a day of clomid or nolva.

 

[TravFlex91]

taking clomid along with the pct that trav listed is ample pct for healthy adult men bodybuilders who cycle.

100mg clomid a day will turn you into a weeping woman and probably kill your libido. been there and done that.

i have bloods showing 12mg EOD or ED of clomid ALONG WITH the other things trav listed works AND has little to no side effects. see my tren log.

whats the point of PCT if you will feel like shit? thats why you see guys just give up on cycling and just stay on

also yes clomid comes in 50mg tabs.. you cut it in half, and cut it in half again. and boom you have 12mg tabs. its easy to do. i would rather take NOTHING for pct than have to endure 100mg a day of clomid or nolva.

+1
Thank you Steve

 

[HOV]

aright guys, to all the mods and especially Dlyan i sincerely apologize for name calling. for now on i would like to contribute positively to this forum. i respect people that work hard for their gains-

thanks for the advice even if most u guys think im a dick.

my stats: im 25 5'8 160-165 (7-8% bodyfat my guess) im top havy, pretty much maxed out my body naturally imo. i could probably add 10 pouds to my legs if i cared to train them but i get lazy with legs. got my max bench up to 335, rep 225 12x on flat bar. curl 65'pd dumbells sets of 8 on each arm. i only got this way by 7 years of trainign consistantly 5 days a week, working my ass off, traingin RIGHT, and eating well.

i honestly did tihnk i knew alot but, after digging deeper into this forum i am humbled by the amount of knowledge the mods have. so im going to be getting the pct travflex recoommened. thank you to those who helped.

 

[HOV]

easy answer.. your doc who is a pro doesn't cycle. he just stays on.

i always find it interesting the guys who swear by nolva/clomid for PCT are the same fools who go on TRT at a young age and then start lecturing people to run the shitty PCT they ran which caused them to have to go on TRT.. you don't see the connection with that?

the guys like me and the vets on this forum who ACTUALLY CYCLE off and on hate nolva and clomid PCT cause we all tried it too and it didn't do shit for us.


....kind of makes sense...if someone never cycles off they probably dont know what a complete pct looks like..

 

[HOV]

Thanks for all the help and valuable information everyone... here it is....

1-12 teste (500mg)
1-12 primo (600mg)
6-14 HCGenerate

15-18 post cycle/unleashed
15-18 clomid 50/25/25/25
15-18 (forma stanz if needed)

dropped the nolva, and gonna be pinning the delts. looking forward to hopefully an awesome first cyle