First Cycle - Comments & Suggestions Welcome!

[anon1234]

A friend of mine asked me to post this for feedback.

His stats:
24 years old
5'7
175-179lbs
11-12% body fat
3 years training/eating hardcore (few breaks)
1.5 year layoff (some training, nothing hardcore or long term)
8 months training/eating hardcore again

Goals of the first cycle are to break 200lbs, increase strength, and keep body fat at a reasonable level (15%?).

Now here is the breakdown of the cycle
Week 01 - Test @ 1000mg
Week 02 - Test @ 500mg
Week 03 - Test @ 500mg
Week 04 - Test @ 500mg
Week 05 - Test @ 500mg
Week 06 - Test @ 500mg
Week 07 - Test @ 500mg / Dbol 10mg per day
Week 08 - Test @ 500mg / Dbol 10mg per day / HCG 3000mg
Week 09 - Dbol 10mg per day / HCG 3000mg
Week 10 - Dbol 10mg per day / HCG 2000mg / Clomid 50mg per day
Week 11 - HCG 2000mg / Clomid 50mg per day
Week 12 - Clomid 50mg per day

Weeks 01 to 12 - Arimidex 1.75mg / week
Weeks 01 to 12 - Finasteride 8.75mg / week
Weeks 01 to 12 - Vitamin B5 5g / day

Hopefully that looks okay when it's posted. The main area of concern is the recovery. It's difficult to find data pertaining to the use of Clomid and HCG together at the end of the cycle (so be gentle if it's severely wrong).

He is definitely open to suggestions of alternatives, provided an explanation is given. Thanks in advance!

PS - This has been posted on other boards, so forgive the redundancy, just trying to get as many opinions as possible before deciding.

 

[TECH ONE]

First off bro you have to go read the rules for this board before posting again!!! You must talk to a MOD to see if your paying too much (which you are!!!)!!!! Second of all "your buddy" which we all know is you, should do a lot more research before doing your first cycle!! Other point, where did you read to use the dbols like that???? From the sounds of it you are going to do a cycle no matter what so i will give you a little advice on a cycle:

Week 1-4 Dbols @ 25-30mg/day
Week 1-10 Testoviron @ 250-500mg/week
Then get on Clomid two weeks after your last test shot!

**By the way, Clomid dosages are like this: day 1: 300mg, day 2-11: 100mg/day and day 12-22 50mg/day!!!! And also you will probably not need the a-dex with such low dosages, only use it if you want to keep bloat to a minimum! And please get your hands on some nolva to keep on hand in case some gyno signs pop up!! Good luck bro and please do some fucking research before you start injecting yourself!!!

 

[Delinquent]

First things first. The doses are WAY too high for a first cycle. Try 250mg or 500mg for 10 weeks and that's it. If he really wants the dbol in there, it should be taken the first 4 weeks which will give nice gains until the test kicks in around week 4. Look at Tech One's post for dbol dose and clomid schedule.

Also, I know those prices are baseline and no I'm not giving out info but I hope he is not paying those outrageous prices. If they are gym prices then I'll accept it but even then those are really high prices

 

[CN1]

thats not a good cycle bro, first off like one guy said, dbol at the first of the cycle............bro you buddy has no clue, he has not one anabolic substance in here, likely he will get over 200 but once off he will go down to 185.................a better cycle for him to follow would be:

equipoise
testoviron
dbol
deca

the eq and deca will give him strong anabolic compounds that will help in gaining lean muscle mass!!!!!!!

 

[anon1234]

Tech One: sorry, I didn't realize getting a price quote was against the rules. Won't happen again (btw, those are general prices he found on the net, not prices from a legit source).

As for doing research, this is part of the process.

I know dbol is usually used at the beginning of a cycle to kick start the process, but it was suggested to use it at the end of the cycle to help bridge the gap between the last injection and the clomid therapy. Just to clarify, it was 10mg/day (70mg/week).

As for dropping the arimidex and replacing it with nolvadex, why? Aren't they both aromatase inhibitors?

***

Delinquent: You said the dosages are "WAY too high" but then you recommend 500mg for 10 weeks instead of 8 weeks? The initial week of 1g is only to frontload, although I realize frontloading is mostly based on personal preference.

***

CN1: that sounds like a lot of gear for a first cycle. Also, aren't the ancillery drugs the most important factor in maintaining gains? A couple people suggest EQ and it's currently being looked into.

***

I appreciate all the suggestions, but there seems to be a lot of conflicting advise. Some say it's too much, others say it's not enough, etc. Does elite fitness have any gurus that everyone on the board seems to agree with? If so, I'd definitely like to hear their opinions/suggestions with detailed explanations.

 

[TECH ONE]

Tech One: As for dropping the arimidex and replacing it with nolvadex, why? Aren't they both aromatase inhibitors?

I never said to drop a-dex and replace it with nolva!!! I said you probably won't need a-dex with such low dosages, plus you would save some money also!!! Either way, if you want to get the a-dex or not you should however have some nolva on hand to use just in case some gyno signs pop up (better to be safe than sorry)!!!

Also no matter what board your surfing on, you are never going to fine "one set cycle" that everyone agrees on!!! You should consider all the things people do agree on, like using the dbols to kickstart your cycle. If you use them near the end you will crash harder-not what you want!!!! Also 70mg/day is a lot of fucking dbols!!!!

Some more advice, don't rely on the drugs to get you massive, think of them as tools to help you in your pursuit to getting massive!! Focus more on your bulking diet (tons of calories!!) and maintain it till your done clomid that way you will be able to maintain all your gains!!! Good luck bro and and keep researching!!!

 

[theoak01]

I dont buy that of dont use dbol like that,here is a solid first cycle,you have two options

#1
wk1-8 test 250mg/wk
dbol wk 1-4 25mg/day
wk 8-11 dbol 25mg/day

nolva on hand and clomid post cycle

take milk thisle and ala during cycle for the liver and your good

#2
Test wk1-8
dbol wk 1-5 30mg/day

nolva on hand and same supps as above

two very solid cycles,my first cycle was similar to the first

and to add to my debate on dbolat the end,your test levels are dropping from being off test,you start clomid three weeks later,run the dbol up until the day before the clomid starts to keep gaining

 

[anon1234]

Tech One: Isn't arimidex also used during a cycle to reduce the chances of gyno? That's why I thought you were suggesting the switch between arimidex and nolvadex.

I realize not everyone will agree on every cycle, but a general consensus on the amount/length should exist ... at least for beginners, no?

Also, there is no reliance on the drugs to get massive, other than their intended purposes, of course. He is well versed in diet and consumes up to 6500 calories/day. I'm not trying to sound condecending, but I think you misunderstood what I said in above post. Maintaining gains after a cycle depends a lot on proper use of ancillery drugs (like clomid).

As for the dbol at the end of the cycle, I'll do some more research into it, although it was suggested by two highly respectable individuals. I fully realize it is not what is normally suggested, but the reasoning isn't uncommon. Some people use winny between the last injection and the clomid, so why not dbol? And it's only 10mg/day or 70mg/week (10*7). Also, wouldn't the use of HCG help keep him from crashing?

***

The Canadian Oak: thanks for the suggested cycles. #2 is very common from what I've read (although I usually see people recommend dbol for 4 weeks, or 6 at the very max).

***

Dial_tone: the actual cycle is only 8 weeks long. The rest is for recovery. Why is 500mg/week too much?

 

[Surgical]

Maintaining gains after a cycle depends a lot on proper use of ancillery drugs (like clomid).

Maintaining gains depends on a lot more than ancillary drugs my friend. It sounds like your friend (you) wants to depend on the drugs to do the work for him (you).

Diet and training are most important. Try that first to get to 200. Chemicals aren't everything, but they do help.

I know dbol is usually used at the beginning of a cycle to kick start the process, but it was suggested to use it at the end of the cycle to help bridge the gap between the last injection and the clomid therapy.

There is no need to bridge with Dbol because the test is still active in your blood for 2-3 weeks, depending on the ester.

No need to run Clomid and HCG at the same time. You could run the HCG in the two weeks before starting Clomid, but that should only be for a high dose cycle, which you should NOT be taking for a first cycle. 500 a week is too much. I could see 400 maybe, or 250 of Sustanon every 5 days.

Do A LOT more research. If you're well versed in diet, try being well versed in AAS as well before you start.

 

[anon1234]

Surgical: thanks for the input. I'm not exactly sure what I have said to give you the impression that I think drugs do all the work, because I 100% realize this is not the case. He wouldn't even be considering a cycle if training/diet/sleep were not perfect. Believe me.

What I did say was coming off a cycle with no ancillery drugs is a guaranteed way to lose most, if not all, of your gains. If this is not the case, please correct me.

As for using training/diet to achieve 200lbs, it's probably possible in the long term (keep in mind he is 5'7 and gains do not come easily, especially at this stage in the game). He started at approx. 125lbs, so I think his 50-55lbs gain surpasses the gains seen by most people before they decide to use AAS. His decision (if you can even call it a decision, because at this point it is PURELY research) isn't hasty ... he's been training for 10 years, of which almost 4 of those have been hardcore. He's not about to stick a needle in his ass unless he is absolutely positive what the results will be. Using these forums is just a convenient way to get opinions.

You also mentioned 500mg to be too much ... do you think 20-25lbs is possible on 250mg?

Oh, your explanation regarding HCG/Clomid usage is much appreciated.

 

[anon1234]

No kidding!! For awhile he was eating a 2lb roast every damn day. Had to take out loans for groceries!!

 

[Delinquent]

***

Delinquent: You said the dosages are "WAY too high" but then you recommend 500mg for 10 weeks instead of 8 weeks? The initial week of 1g is only to frontload, although I realize frontloading is mostly based on personal preference.

***

Yea I figured you would say that. I mainly put the 500mg in there b/c most say that 250mg isn't enough but I think it is. My 2nd cycle coming up sometime this year is gonna be test depot @ 250mg for 10 weeks and dbol @ 25mg weeks 1-4. I may actually shorten it to 8 as I really didn't notice any difference the last two weeks come to think of it.

 

[theoak01]

Dbol can be run about 7-8 weeks if you get you liver enzhime levels tested and take the proper pills for liver,most people dont reccomend it for that long because most people are to lazy to get the blood work done

 

[phatty123]

Listen to the OAK he is da man.