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FINALLY - my results are in....big trouble?

JKurz1

JKurz1

Banned
Well, he prescribed me the patch.....anyone ever used? Can anyone tell me about it and what effects it'll have on me?

Here are my score, don't know how to read these charts at all, but I'll post it as best as possible....

choleserol - 125
TriGly - 38
HDL-CHol (61)
AST - 48
ALT - 67

TESTOSTERONE, SERUM 160NG/DL
INSULIN (<2.0)
PROLACTIN (8.0)
TRIIODOTHYRONINE (T3) - 70NG/DL
T4 - 6.5 UG/DL
FREE TEST (DIRECT) 3.6 PG/ML
HEMOCYCT, P/S 6.8 UMOL/L
ESTRADIOL - 10PG/ML
CORTISOL 26.6 UG/DL


my liver enzymes were also high (67) and he seemed pretty concerned with that......but they were high a few years ago....he's doing some Heb ABC screening and bone cancer tests.......what do you guys make out of this?

He told me he isnt concerned, thinks with my test being so low, that it's effecting everything else.....thoughts? HUGE KARMA!


------------------------ -reference ranges-
WBC ---------- 2.2 ---- 4.1-11.3 x10*3/cumm
RBC -----------3.96 ---- 4.2-5.5 x10*6/cumm
Hemoglobin --- 14.1 ---- 13-17.0 gm/dl
MCV ----------102 ---- 82-10 fl
MCH ---------- 35.5---- 27.0-34.0 pg
MCHC ---------34.9 ---- 30.9-35.4 g/dl
RDW ----------13.8 ---- 10.8-14.8 %

Lymphocytes --1.0 ---- 15-50 %
Monocytes ----.2 ---- 0-13 %
Eosinophils ----.1 ---- 0-5 %
Basophils -------0.0 ---- 0-5 %


Cortisol(am) ---- 4.3-22.4 mcg/dl

Testosterone ---- 241-827 ng/dl
(total)


----------------------

Cholesterol Total-186
LDL - 134
HDL - 41

VLDL 11

Triglycerides - 57
Glucose - 90
 
I haven't tried the patch but was prescribed test cream. Basically it's the same. I didn't notice much from it other than maybe a bit more energy and just overall less moodiness. The doses they give you in the patch or creams is just enough to get you to normal levels and definitely doesn't feel like being "on". What concentration did he prescribe for you? It usually comes in a 5%, 10% and 20%. How long had you been off the sauce when you got tested?
 
Bro don't get to stressed. Don't change anything until he tells you exaclty what is going on. Then get a second and third opinion if he says something bad is happening.

Are you being completly honest with him? This, as I'm sure you know, can make a huge difference in how your scores are read and the assumptions that are drawn. Don't let the whole "cancer" statement stress you out to much. Untill it is shown that it is something you have to deal with it is just a word. I've been through it and I'll tell you untill your have to deal with it don't let it get in your head.

Some of your scores look a bit high but just go through the motions. Follow what your doc puts out there and lay off the gear for a bit. It is beating the shit out of your system and your counts. All will work it's way back to normal if you give it enough time.

Your biggest challenge right now is going to be keeping your head straight. I know your spooked but just try to stay mellow. Keep training and eating. Maybe back off the protein a bit to let your liver get a bit more rest but beyound that keep doing what your doing untill you are told not to.

I know this is not much help but the simple fact is that you don't have enough to go on yet so don't let your mind play games on you.

Good luck bro,

Gig
 
THanks..I'm not stressed....my liver enzymes have been up for the past few years.....I'm sure most of yours are as well......training alone sets them off......I started the patch today and we'll go from there.....as long as my weight stops dropping and I get my LOAD back, I'll be ok....then I'll hit the gear....you guys have me wrong..I haven't touhched gear in over a year and have done a total of 3 SMALL college kid cycles.....I was plain ignorant, thank GOD I'm more informed now...the patch is 2.5mg/day......I know it's nothing major, just want things to get back to normal..wondering how long it will take....
 
Your white blood cells are low. That could be cause for concern. Did you just get off of a tren cycle? Your prolactin looks high but different labs test differently. Your blood cells are low, but I wouldn't be to worried about that just yet. If I remeber right you lymphocytes, monocytes and Eosinophils are all part of you body's immune defence. The basophiles are allergy related so you look good in that department.
I'm not a doctor so take it as it is. Hope it helps some.
 
Sorry bro...........didnt read the top of your post. I wouldnt sweat anything. Let the patch do its job then carry on with your plans. Did he say why or do you know why you are shut down.........Its not from gear right???
 
Hmmm...what would cause them to be low? He seems to think that since my test is so incredibly low, it's screwing with everything else........I haven't been sick in years, but that prob. makes no difference eh? Would be around mary jane the night before have any effect? I smoked once in college, but my bro is pretty daily........
 
Guess he's pretty smart.............


Are low testosterone levels bad for your heart?
On the contrary, low testosterone levels (especially free testosterone) may increase the risk of atherosclerosis. Studies show that testosterone may actually promote the health of the cells lining the blood vessels and reduce risk of the disease [5, 6, 7, 8, 9].

Low testosterone levels
Men with low testosterone levels have more abdominal fat, and their endothelial cells don't function as well. They're also at greater risk of insulin resistance [4].

This suggests that having normal testosterone levels (rather than low testosterone levels) could actually be good for you.

In men with low testosterone levels, administration of supplemental testerone increases blood flow to areas such as the brain and sex organs. In one Italian study, treatment with transdermal testosterone improved the erectile response to viagra [1].

So, how are low testosterone levels and blood flow linked?

Your heart pumps blood through tubes called blood vessels. These are lined with endothelial cells that secrete a chemical called nitric oxide. Nitric oxide opens blood vessels and helps to stimulate the flow of blood.

Low testosterone levels may be one reason why endothelial cells stop working properly. This leads to poor blood flow. You'll have trouble getting erections during sex. Blood flow to the muscles during exercise will also be reduced.

Healthy endothelial cells, on the other hand, promote the delivery of blood to your muscles during exercise. Improved blood flow to the brain means you can think clearly and quickly. Sexual arousal and performance is also improved.

In spite of the widespread belief that testosterone supplementation increases the risk of heart disease, evidence to support this is lacking.

Although large doses of testosterone, such as those used by athletes and recreational body builders, decrease high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol concentrations, replacement doses of testosterone have only a modest effect on HDL in placebo-controlled trials [10].

In fact, according to a review by the preeminent androgen physiologist Dr. Shalendar Bhasin, "In epidemiological studies, serum total and free testosterone concentrations have been inversely correlated with intra-abdominal fat mass, risk of coronary artery disease and type II diabetes. Testosterone administration to middle-aged men is associated with decreased visceral fat and glucose concentrations and increased insulin sensitivity. Testosterone infusion increases coronary blood flow. Similarly, testosterone replacement retards atherogenesis in experimental models of atherosclerosis."
 
Don't think pot causes a decrease in WBC count, though it might short-term.

I wouldn't say that your WBC, etc are low because your testosterone levels are shot, but rather, something is wrong with your endocrine system, and is propogating all over (meaning, low testosterone is a symptom, not a cause). Your bodily systems are closely tied together, and a "malfunction" in one part somewhere will cause a ripple effect throughout.
 
ohashi said:
Don't think pot causes a decrease in WBC count, though it might short-term.

I wouldn't say that your WBC, etc are low because your testosterone levels are shot, but rather, something is wrong with your endocrine system, and is propogating all over. Your bodily systems are closely tied together, and a "malfunction" in one part somewhere will cause a ripple effect throughout.
Click to expand...


Like in the post above yours, I/we are pretty confident all of this is stemming from low test............so, this is why I havent been able to gain weight right? AND what I want to know if why havent I gained a bunch of fat? I mean I'm about 6-7% bf........thought a symptom was abdominal fat gain?
 
No I wouldn't worry to much. I think in most cancer cases WBC goes up unless its in the cancer is in the bone, in which case the RBC would be low too, as yours is. But that could be cause by many different things.
Did you do a tren cycle recently? I've heard of it affecting the immune system and lower WBC count. Often patients recieving chemo have low WBC count. Check this site out for more info. http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/help/default.asp?page=314
 
JKurz1 said:
Like in the post above yours, I/we are pretty confident all of this is stemming from low test............so, this is why I havent been able to gain weight right? AND what I want to know if why havent I gained a bunch of fat? I mean I'm about 6-7% bf........thought a symptom was abdominal fat gain?
Click to expand...

I really don't want to speculate on this, because no one on this board has enough information (you need an endocrologist to do some testing on you), but you can receive a shitload of bad advice easily. If your insurance covers it, see an endocrologist and tell him you would like to find the root instead of treating the symptoms.
 
JKurz1 said:
cancer?
Click to expand...


Your white blood cells will drop when you undergo treatement for cancer. If you are healthy and they show a drop it just means yoru Immune system is running low.

Things such as Chemo Therapy and Radiaiton treatment can cause your white blood cells to drop off dramatically. You are not undergoing any of these treatments so cancer should no even be a concern right now.
 
Thanks for the help, but my doc didn't seem overly concerned...........He wanted to get me going on the patch and get the additional bloodwork done.....I think I'd have a few systoms if it was pretty serious.....When cancer hits the bone, you don't have much time, from what I've seen..........
 
gigantasor said:
Your white blood cells will drop when you undergo treatement for cancer. If you are healthy and they show a drop it just means yoru Immune system is running low.

Things such as Chemo Therapy and Radiaiton treatment can cause your white blood cells to drop off dramatically. You are not undergoing any of these treatments so cancer should no even be a concern right now.
Click to expand...
Thanks bro - karma for the ease of concern.........I'm not undergoing any treatment and this has been a problem for a long time.....I'm starting the patch, getting the bloodwork done, and hopefully it'll work out.........his exact words were that he thought my low test was causing my other problems.....hopefuly this gay patch works....and let's me put on some weight.....
 
Also, my liver enzymes were about 67, right? 30-60 is normal? So, it's not crazy high.......wonder what that is from..creatine??? Havent had alcohol in years....
 
brother you need to look into a good treatment to raise your immune system.
 
JKurz1 said:
Also, my liver enzymes were about 67, right? 30-60 is normal? So, it's not crazy high.......wonder what that is from..creatine??? Havent had alcohol in years....
Click to expand...


Yeah your liver counts are not that high. I have been in the high 80's in the past. Creatine may be a bit of the problem. The best thing you can do now is just take it easy and work through the patch process. The weight will start to come back and all should return to normal. Time fixes all things bro. Just go through the motions.

Thing to remember is that this didn't happen overnight and it will not fix itself overnight either. But it will get better.

Gig
 


Hey Kurz, I hope you read my reply carefuly:

1) I wouldn't worry about your liver at all.
AST and ALT has close to zero meaning. Especially for athletes. And even if they would, they are not considered something "to be concerned about" He should have checked your GGT, that is a much better indicator more specific enzyme to liver. That said, if you really want you can test GGT. Taking Tyler's probably wouldn't hurt but I don't think truely nessecary. BTW: Personally, I have a LOT (I should an 80 pixel font for this word) of experience with Doctors. I hate to say that at least 90% of them no shit. A "good" doctor asked me a few years ago why would I want to check GGT cause it had nothing to do with the liver and not needed to be checked.. LOL

2) I must say your doctor is VERY UNRESPONSIBLE AND UN PROFESSIONAL!. Going to give you the patch? (which is pretty much giving you some light doses of testosterone).. That is NOT even trying to cure your problem. This is just to help with the symptoms and WORESEN your problem!
Hell, did your super doctor even thought about checking your LH ?
He should first try to get your systems back to normal and cause YOUR BODY to produce LH and TEST. NOT just giving you testosterone patches. Is your doctor Endocrinologist? When was the last time this guy even seen a study in the new england medical journal?

I can give you some horrible examples of several "senior" "known" figures that I've seen/heard that talk bullshit. Not all.. but sadly the majority.

If I had the same condition as yours I would probably go with:
3-4 weeks of HCG 2000-5000IU 3 times a week, along with 50mg of clomid. You can add 10-20mg of nolvadex along the Clomid. Then after, the HCG continue taking clomid at 50mg for about 8-12 weeks possiblly with some nolvadex. Then wait 3-4 weeks and do blood test again. (needless to say you should stay clean of juice for all that time).

That IMO MIGHT POSSIBLE fix your problems. But I'm not a doctor, so I cannot tell you to do that. I would seriously look for a -GOOD-OPEN MINDED-UPDATED Endocrinologist. And I would prefer one that I've heard that had good results with "fixing" his athletes patients problems and not trying to solve it with "put a patch on and come back in a month". JESUS!


JUNK :supercool
 
JKurz1 said:
Well, he prescribed me the patch.....anyone ever used? Can anyone tell me about it and what effects it'll have on me?

Here are my score, don't know how to read these charts at all, but I'll post it as best as possible....

choleserol - 125
TriGly - 38
HDL-CHol (61)
AST - 48
ALT - 67

TESTOSTERONE, SERUM 160NG/DL
INSULIN (<2.0)
PROLACTIN (8.0)
TRIIODOTHYRONINE (T3) - 70NG/DL
T4 - 6.5 UG/DL
FREE TEST (DIRECT) 3.6 PG/ML
HEMOCYCT, P/S 6.8 UMOL/L
ESTRADIOL - 10PG/ML
CORTISOL 26.6 UG/DL


my liver enzymes were also high (67) and he seemed pretty concerned with that......but they were high a few years ago....he's doing some Heb ABC screening and bone cancer tests.......what do you guys make out of this?

He told me he isnt concerned, thinks with my test being so low, that it's effecting everything else.....thoughts? HUGE KARMA!


------------------------ -reference ranges-
WBC ---------- 2.2 ---- 4.1-11.3 x10*3/cumm
RBC -----------3.96 ---- 4.2-5.5 x10*6/cumm
Hemoglobin --- 14.1 ---- 13-17.0 gm/dl
MCV ----------102 ---- 82-10 fl
MCH ---------- 35.5---- 27.0-34.0 pg
MCHC ---------34.9 ---- 30.9-35.4 g/dl
RDW ----------13.8 ---- 10.8-14.8 %

Lymphocytes --1.0 ---- 15-50 %
Monocytes ----.2 ---- 0-13 %
Eosinophils ----.1 ---- 0-5 %
Basophils -------0.0 ---- 0-5 %


Cortisol(am) ---- 4.3-22.4 mcg/dl

Testosterone ---- 241-827 ng/dl
(total)


----------------------

Cholesterol Total-186
LDL - 134
HDL - 41

VLDL 11

Triglycerides - 57
Glucose - 90
Click to expand...


I will try to advise you and I hope you will listen:
1. Liver enzymes. Take r-ala , milk thistle. I also take glutathione. I got my liver enzymes from 3x normal to totally normal from doing what I perscribed.
67 ain't nothin. Infact my 3x ain't nothin considering people with liver disease may have several thousand times above normal.
2. You ldl is high. eat more monounsaturated fats (peanut butter, olive oil)
3. You white blood cell count is quite low. Maybe that's why you can't take a joke :strider36 There is a correlation between liver disease , elevated enzymes and low white blood cell counts. I hope your test come back negative.
 
The thing that seems to have caught my eye a little was your hemocrit level looking low IIRC what the right range is suppose to be. I have my last BW report around somewhere; I'll hunt it down and compare the proper ranges.

When did you do your last cycle? Did you do proper PCT?
 
Synpax said:
The thing that seems to have caught my eye a little was your hemocrit level looking low IIRC what the right range is suppose to be. I have my last BW report around somewhere; I'll hunt it down and compare the proper ranges.

When did you do your last cycle? Did you do proper PCT?
Click to expand...

Different labs have different ranges, it's not standard
One of my blood test results has the normal range for hemocrit at 36 - 50
 
If I had liver disears GJ, Id be gone by now...this has been going on for years....my liver enzymes are high every time they are tested....even though 67 isnt that high...my immune system is solid...I get sick maybe once every few years and have no problem fight ing off infection, healing, etc.....thanks for the reply, even though you alsways got to toss in some smart ass remark.....You pm'd me and said you liked me, that's why you talk shit....I don't care for it too much, esp. in this circumstance.

Junk 0 thanks for the reply bro and I trust your knowledge...my md is a family md, he'd tell you str8 upo that this is not his specialty and prob should have referred me....he does not his shit though and is a very respected md.....maybe I should get some HCG....PM me, I want to further discuss....solid.

Ulter - good stuff.....thanks for the help.....


Gig - again, you know your shit....thans man.....day by day is the best theory by far...I need to f-ing quit overtraining and undereating.......it's amazxing I'm not ill.I do cardio every am at 430 am and train every night around 5.....getting about 6 hours of sleep and they arent very solid.......prob. why my system is down.....that and being around my bros who train then party hard is hurting me.....

What exactly is this dose of the patch...pretty weak huh? Will it increase my appetite or size at all? How should I eat? Crank the cals? I also have a bunch of test, dbol, winny, etc. that I was obviously putting on hold till this clears up...best idea?

I havent touched gear in 13+ months and when I did, yes, I was ignorant with my pct...it me in the ass....I have some clomid on hand and I WILL have the rest of my pct before I do anything....promise you that!
 
"I need to f-ing quit overtraining and undereating.......it's amazxing I'm not ill.I do cardio every am at 430 am and train every night around 5.....getting about 6 hours of sleep and they arent very solid.......prob. why my system is down.....that and being around my bros who train then party hard is hurting me....."

exactly bro take your own advice.. eat healthy you know not 500g protein but a good balanced diet, low on sugars high in fiber and lots of healthy fats. cut back the training volume and cardio a bit to allow your body a bit of a break but there is no need to stop all together. depending on your mood you should think about dropping the patch for now and doing some PCT with nolva/hcg/clomid for 8 weeks and then get blood work again

i did a tren cycle once with no pct and 1year later i was still very suppressed and i took nolva/clomid for about 7 weeks and things returned back to normal. I know its rough but hang in there
 


jkurz bro..
but you may get better recommendations here from experienced bros and amateur chemists than you would from a FAMILY DOCTOR. Do as you wish, but just a friendly advice, take your ass to the number.1 endocrinologist you can find.. one that works with athletes is better. Regarding your liver enzymes.. You can get these levels from just plain weight training. A heavy set of squats and some deadlifts will raise your levels substantially. You should check Bilurobin and GGT as well. See my advice, I really think I covered quite a lot...


JUNK :supercool
 
junk said:


jkurz bro..
but you may get better recommendations here from experienced bros and amateur chemists than you would from a FAMILY DOCTOR. Do as you wish, but just a friendly advice, take your ass to the number.1 endocrinologist you can find.. one that works with athletes is better. Regarding your liver enzymes.. You can get these levels from just plain weight training. A heavy set of squats and some deadlifts will raise your levels substantially. You should check Bilurobin and GGT as well. See my advice, I really think I covered quite a lot...


JUNK :supercool
Click to expand...

but I should stay on the patch, right?
 
MD said it would kick start my test......is this not the case? My test needs restarted ASAP, it's severely low.......he said because the dose is low, it would help to get it going again.......
 
I'm assuming that the patch will just be like a low dose of testosterone or am dbol that I could have taken in exchange...then follow this with the PROPER PCT after and it will help jump start.....no?
 
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