Feel the "pump" or "burn"

[pwr_machine]

On another thread, FatRat posted "We know that 'pump' and the 'burn' have nothing to do with a productive workout". That comment sparked a thought. In no way am I presenting this as an argument to FatRat. I'm merely stating that his words and the words of many others sparked a thought.

Stick with me and I'll get around to my point soon.

Fast glycolysis occurs during periods of reduced oxygen availability in the muscle cells and results in the formation of lactic acid. Muscular fatigue experienced during exercise is often assoiciated with high tissue concentrations of, again, lactic acid. As lactic acid accumulates, there is a correponding increase in H+ concentration, which is believed to inhibit glycolytic rxn's and directly interfere with muscle excitation-contraction coupling, possibly inhibiting Ca2+ binding to troponin or by interfereing with cross-bridge formation. Also, the decrease in pH inhibits the enzymatic actvity of the cell's energy systems. The cumulative effect is a decrease in available energy and muscle contractile force during exercise.

One step closer to the end.

Evidence suggests that there are specific break points in the lactate accumulation curve (blood lactate on the y-axis and relative exercise intensity on the x-axis) as exercise intensity increases. The exercise intensity or relative intensity at which blood lactate begins an abrupt increase above the baseline concentration has been termed the lactate threshold (LT).

Ok, here's the point.

I know endurance athletes that train just below lactate threshold which enables them to exercise longer without sacrificing intensity. However, part of their training also takes them beyond their lactate threshold in an attempt to push the lactate accumulation curve further down the x-axis, in turn, allowing them to train longer and a higher intensity over time.

Does it not makes sense that we sometimes train above our lactate threshold in order to push the lactate accumulation curve further down the x-axis as well? Isn't this the "pump" and "burn" that we refer to? If it takes longer to reach lactate threshold through training, then that allows us to train at a higher intensity for longer periods of time. If we can train at a higher intensity, then muslce growth is more likely to occur.

With that said, I believe the "pump" or "burn" should be an occasional part of your workouts in an attempt to increase your lactate threshold (again, allowing us to train at higher intensity).

 

[FatRat]

I dont think there is necessarily anything wrong with feeling a “burn”, just that it does not necessarily indicate a growth-stimulating workout! I think that in many cases, this is more of a case of setting the wrong goal for the workout, like you said, an endurance trainer can feel the burn, but they arte not gaining muscle mass.

I think you make a good point, although is there any need to raise the threshold above what is required to stimulate the muscles to grow. I guess I am saying this in the context of the “1 set is all you need” thread. If we take this into account, why raise the threshold higher than to perform this set?

 

[pwr_machine]

I think that it can play a small part in resistance training that indirectly supports muscle growth. A higher threshold leads to more intense workouts, thereby indirectly supporting muscle growth. For instance, let's say did a single set of barbell curls with 135 for 10 reps and you stop just as the burning sensation sets in . With training, you were later able to do 135 for 10 reps with no burning sensation and decide to dig out 5 more reps before stopping due to just reaching the burning sensation. Keep in mind, neither set to complete failure. Wouldn't a small part of that be your ablility to increase your lactate threshold?

 

[edgecrusher]

Define intensity.

 

[louden_swain]

Every workout I go through. . .I end up with a severe burn and an excellent pump.

 

[Exodus]

i could see the good from this idea........ its an interesting theory.

X

 

[FatRat]

I dont think you should stop because you feel "the burn", just not seek it as your goal for the session

 

[Buck89]

I think you should vary your # of reps to allow you to reach positive failure on some days, and negative failure on others. Getting this burn seems to increase your lactate threshold. I know that if I hit high reps for a couple of weeks, I can do far more reps with the same weight than when I first started. Then I go heavy for a couple of weeks.

 

[overhead]

Before I started lifting weights I use to swim and surf quite I bit ( and still do ) . And I would get a "burn" in my shoulder muscles on a regular basis. I guess the burn maybe increased some during these activities due to having to hold my breath for 10 to 30 seconds at a time to wait for waves to pass and not providing enough oxygen to the muscles so it maybe a different case all together. As you might imagine, I did not put on much size in the muscles during this time. As soon as I started hitting weights than the muscle grew very quickly. And oddly enough, my shoulders and triceps grew at a faster rate than the rest of my upper body. What I am trying to figure out is if that is something that would have happened due to my body type, or if the work in the water had something to do with it. I do mostly one working set type of lifting and rarely go beyond 10 reps in that working set, usually 8. Maybe building up the LT had something to do with it. I guess it could allow me to push the muscle a little further than I could otherwise. Atleast it is something to think about.

 

[pwr_machine]

I think you should vary your # of reps

That's the exact point I wanted to make. Varying reps is an important part of strength training whether it be for size or strictly strength. And the "burn" isn't so bad afterall.

 

[pwr_machine]

Define intensity.

A level of muscular activity that can be quantified in terms of power (work performed per unit of time) output.

 

[edgecrusher]

A level of muscular activity that can be quantified in terms of power (work performed per unit of time) output.

Give me an example.

 

[pwr_machine]

Give me an example.

In a strength training sense, high volume is considered low intensity due to the use of less weight whereas low volume is considered high intensity due to the use of heavier weight.

When you look at event duration according to the energy system used:

Phosphagen - very intense
Phosphagen and fast glycolysis - intense
Fast glycolysis - heavy
Fast glycolysis and oxidative system - moderate
Oxidative system - light

High intensity weight training (thus having a high power output), require a rapid rate of energy supplied.

 

[edgecrusher]

So basically, your theory is "Training past the Lactate threshold occasionally will allow for greater power output?"

 

[casualbb]

Also training the glycolysis and oxidative pathways can have a boosting effect on hypertrophy. One "burn" at 15+ reps is enough for this effect.

 

[pwr_machine]

So basically, your theory is "Training past the Lactate threshold occasionally will allow for greater power output?"

Uh, no.

 

[edgecrusher]

Uh, no.

Well Uh then, What Uh are you trying to say?

 

[pwr_machine]

With that said, I believe the "pump" or "burn" should be an occasional part of your workouts in an attempt to increase your lactate threshold (again, allowing us to train at higher intensity).

 

[pwr_machine]

Also training the glycolysis and oxidative pathways can have a boosting effect on hypertrophy. One "burn" at 15+ reps is enough for this effect.

Typically, an event lasting >3 minutes uses the oxidative system. When would this be performed to produce hypertrophy?

 

[pwr_machine]

Well Uh then, What Uh are you trying to say?

High intensity (high power output) exercise requires a rapid rate of energy supplied as stated earlier. <--That was an example that you asked for. These exercises rely almost entirely on the energy supplied by the phoshagen system. When that energy system is depleted, fast glycolysis occurs. Now, fast glycolysis occurs....(the original post, 2nd paragraph).

 

[Buck89]

When I lift heavy/low rep, what I call an intense workout, I often feel like I could do more after about 10 minutes rest, unless I do really slow negatives. A lot of times I will finish a heavy day with 1 burn set. Seems to work for me, at least mentally. When I am done, I feel done.

 

[pwr_machine]

A lot of times I will finish a heavy day with 1 burn set. Seems to work for me, at least mentally. When I am done, I feel done.

That's my conclusive point; "burn" set(s) have their place in resistance training. I thought of this when I noticed that there many people on the boards training at much less than 8 reps per bodypart. I've heard time and time again that the burning sensation is not necessary for muscle growth. I'm not saying that it's a 100% contributor to muscle growth; it's a small piece to a big puzzle. I think I've presented a reasonable idea that this burning/lactic acid accumulation can have a positive, indirect effect on training.

 

[Exodus]

i really like to go for just a burn once in a while. kinda just feels good, and its a break from all the heavy training, kinda lik Acctive Recovery.

X

 

[casualbb]

The activation of glycolysis and oxidative energy pathways results in release of the MAPKerk1/2, which contributes to hypertrophy.

Also, the oxidative pathway does not require one activity of >3 minutes duration. It can be a cumulative effect, such as the performance of multiple sets with low rest times. Let me revise my advice, though. After multiple worksets, do a double- or triple- drop set and go for reps.

 

[pwr_machine]

I'm glad to see most of you in agreement with me. We're having alot of good posts.