f@ckin sore nipples...WTF!

[turbogreek]

i never though that this would happen to me. i finished my last cycle (test/dbol) 2 weeks ago. i was taking adex throughout. then the cycle finished...and so did the adex. I've been running IGF for the last 10 days @60mg/day.

the other day i was at the gym waiting for the peck deck so i was using that cybex ab machine. the one where you push down with your chest. WELL...all of a sudden i felt this soreness type of pain in my left nipple. it's been sore ever since. i may be getting paranoid about gyno but i feel something underneath and around that nipple. nothing crazy but its definately something.

i immediately took 80mg nolva that night. last night i did the same. it felt better this morning but now it's getting sore again. what do you guys recommend? i was gonna go 80 mg nolva ED for a few days...then down to 60 until it goes away. should i maybe get some letro too? somebody told me that letro with nolva will get rid of it ASAP. any advise?

 

[blackhatcowboy]

Just stick with the Nolva till it goes away. I don't think you will have to stay with 60mg though. Maybe 40 even 20.

 

[ceo]

Nolvadex at 20mgs three times a day for 2 weeks or until pain goes away, then 20 mgs twice a day until lump disappears.

 

[Bruce]

i get the same fucking lumps randomly. nolva 20mg ed or 40mg if it is not going away for me. nolva has always gotten rid of it. your fine bro

 

[turbogreek]

Word...thanks Bros!

 

[|3ossman]

hows the igf treating you?

 

[turbogreek]

hows the igf treating you?

i'm lovin' it. the pumps are fucking unreal! definately a great addition to PCT. thinned me out a bit too but have kept all of my size.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

I've been running IGF for the last 10 days @60mg/day.

any advise?

drop the IGF its the cause of your gyno "aggravation"


nolva partly "works" by decreasing IGF-1 and by increasing IGF binding protein

 

[macrophage69alpha]

as a note GH therapy can cause the same issue (though doses are lower, typically because of tolerability)

Nat Med. 1997 Oct;3(10):1141-4. Related Articles, Links


Comment in:
Nat Med. 1997 Oct;3(10):1081-2.

Growth hormone treatment induces mammary gland hyperplasia in aging primates.

Ng ST, Zhou J, Adesanya OO, Wang J, LeRoith D, Bondy CA.

Developmental Endocrinology Branch, National Institute of Child Health and Human Development, Bethesda, Maryland 20892-1770, USA.

The decline of growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) production during aging has been likened to the decrease in gonadal steroids in menopause. The repletion of GH/IGF-I levels in aging individuals is suggested to restore the lean tissue anabolism characteristic of youth. In addition to anabolic effects on musculo-skeletal tissues, GH also stimulates mammary glandular growth in some species, although its effects on primate mammary growth remain unclear. Some clinical observations implicate GH in human mammary growth, for example, gynecomastia occurs in some children treated with GH (ref. 6), and tall stature and acromegaly are associated with an increased incidence of breast cancer. To investigate the effects of GH/IGF-I augmentation on mammary tissue in a model relevant to aging humans, we treated aged female rhesus monkeys with GH, IGF-I, GH + IGF-I or saline diluent for 7 weeks. IGF-I treatment was associated with a twofold increase, GH with a three- to fourfold increase, and GH + IGF-I with a four'-to fivefold increase in mammary glandular size and epithelial proliferation index. These mitogenic effects were directly correlated with circulating GH and IGF-I levels, suggesting that either GH or its downstream effector IGF-I stimulates primate mammary epithelial proliferation.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci. 1998 May;53(3):M183-7. Related Articles, Links


Side effects resulting from the use of growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor-I as combined therapy to frail elderly patients.

Sullivan DH, Carter WJ, Warr WR, Williams LH.

Geriatric Research, Education and Clinical Center, John L. McClellan Memorial Veterans Hospital, Little Rock, Arkansas, USA.

BACKGROUND: The objective of this study was to examine the relationship between serum IGF-I concentration and the incidence of side effects of therapy with recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH) and recombinant human insulin-like growth factor-I (rhIGF-I). METHODS: Thirteen high-risk, undernourished elderly males were started on a 15-day course of rhGH and rhIGF-I by subcutaneous injection. The dose of rhGH was held constant at .0125 mg/kg/day, whereas the dose of rhIGF-I was increased in a stepwise fashion from 10 micrograms/kg to the targeted dose of 40 micrograms/kg twice a day. RESULTS: Nine subjects completed the protocol and reached the full target dose of both hormones. Fluid retention, gynecomastia, and orthostatic hypotension were the most common complications. The hormone injections increased the serum concentration of IGF-I (from 72.7 +/- 40.9 to 483.7 +/- 251.4 eta g/ml, p = .001) and IGFBP-3 (from 1.82 +/- 0.66 to 2.72 +/- 1.18 mg/L, p = .012), and decreased serum albumin (from 34.3 +/- 5.5 to 31.4 +/- 4.6 g/L, p = .009). The magnitude of the initial increase in the serum IGF-I concentration was a powerful risk factor for severe orthostatic hypotension, diffuse myalgias, and drug-induced hepatitis. There was no association between the serum IGF-I concentration and fluid retention or gynecomastia. CONCLUSIONS: Treatment of the undernourished frail elderly with the anabolic agents rhGH and rhIGF-I at the specified dosages may produce undesirable side effects including fluid retention, gynecomastia, and orthostatic hypotension. Although these agents hold therapeutic promise, they must be used with caution in this high-risk population.

 

[turbogreek]

drop the IGF its the cause of your gyno "aggravation"

nolva partly "works" by decreasing IGF-1 and by increasing IGF binding protein

WHOOOOOOOOAH! i didn't know that. actually i didn't read this anywhere while researching either. i'm guessing that it is estrogen related. would an anti-A like letro or adex or aromasin be proper protocol while taking IGF in the future?

i really don't wanna drop the IGF. maybe i'll lower the dose a bit and continue with the nolva. what do you think? are you telling me the nolva is useless? it seems to be working at the moment.

thanks for your help macro!

 

[thelion2005]

"Treatment of the undernourished frail elderly with the anabolic agents rhGH and rhIGF-I at the specified dosages may produce undesirable side effects including fluid retention, gynecomastia, and orthostatic hypotension. Although these agents hold therapeutic promise, they must be used with caution in this high-risk population."

Hummmmmmmmmm......
HGH is part of my HRT program.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

are you telling me the nolva is useless? it seems to be working at the moment.

thanks for your help macro!

it is working

nolva lowers your NATURAL IGF production and increases the amount of IGF binding protein (essentially decreasing the active fraction of IGF in your blood plasma- if its bound- it do no "worky")

 

[turbogreek]

ok...for those that care..here's an update:

i'm still taking the IGF but i have dropped the dose to 50mg. this is my 4th day using nolva @80mg/day. I'm spreading it out through the day 20mgX4. the soreness is going away. i figure i'me gonna run it at 80mg for another few days and then drop the dose to 60, then 40 and so on. i do still feel something just off to the side of my nipple that just shouldn't be there.

 

[Mr.X]

if you have gyno, as macro said drop the IGF-1 or GH (if you're running it) and run your nolva until it's gone, don't risk it

 

[turbogreek]

if you have gyno, as macro said drop the IGF-1 or GH (if you're running it) and run your nolva until it's gone, don't risk it

WOW...just straight up drop it? you think it may be dose related? ok...i guess if i have to i will but the part that sucks is that i have another 2 full bottles of omega's IGF and haven't even finished this 1st one.

for the future...like i asked earlier...you think it would be wise to take an anti-A while running the IGF? if not for me then maybe for anybody else that was thinking about running it during PCT.

 

[turbogreek]

bump

 

[fit2beking]

^^^

 

[turbogreek]

for the future...like i asked earlier...you think it would be wise to take an anti-A while running the IGF? .

anybody?

 

[Prizz]

From what you've posted, I would guess that the IGF isn't what is causing the gyno..... Sure, it might be aggravating it now, but I think you got gyno symptoms cause of your cycle.... Next time, get enough Dex to run after you stop the juice, and enough to run through your PCT to keep estrogen in check.... If you do that, you'll be fine, and IGF prob won't give you gyno symptoms....

rizz

 

[turbogreek]

From what you've posted, I would guess that the IGF isn't what is causing the gyno..... Sure, it might be aggravating it now, but I think you got gyno symptoms cause of your cycle.... Next time, get enough Dex to run after you stop the juice, and enough to run through your PCT to keep estrogen in check.... If you do that, you'll be fine, and IGF prob won't give you gyno symptoms....

rizz

well...that was my first thought. maybe a rebound from the anti A's once they finished. anyway...i'm still taking the nolva @ 80mg's/day. next week i'm gonna drop it to 60mg/day and the week after 40mg's/day, etc...hiopefully i'll get rid of this fucking problem!