Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below well, its not a lot of money but im looking for some good advice. im looking to invest about four hundred to five hundred extra dollars a month. also would like some ideas on investing an intial ten thousand dollars possibly on the same investment. my goal would be a nice turn around in about five years if its possible. any help would be great, thanks in advance
extra money need to invest
- Thread starter gq163
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T-Matt
Guest
gq163 said:
A perfect investment for you would be either an EIUL or a VUL... NOt only do you provide yourself with proper protection, all capital gains are tax free under the life insurance umbrella.
You'd be surprised how fast you can get rich when you don't have to pay taxes..
T-Matt
bran987
New member
Pros & Cons of EUIL you can read and make a decision for yourself.gq163 said:
The commissions & fees border on rape IMO, but that's just my opinion. I hope T-Matt is making that recommendation from an unbiased position and doesn't stand to gain financially from the sale of this insurance/investment.
http://www.conseco.com/wsc/life/equityindexedul.shtml
http://www.guardingyourwealth.net/2005/09/another-risky-home-equity-investment.html
There is a wealth of amazing investing info. at www.fool.com. Start with Fool's School. You can also find lots of great free info. at Vanguard.com
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T-Matt
Guest
bran987 said:
One simple statement..
Insurance builds an estate all other investments LIQUIDATE an estate. Most people are underinsured. Insurance displaces liability. Life insurance has an amazing unbrella for taxes and accessibility.
It is truly amazing how people want to invest before they even have proper protection. What good are investments if you have $1,000,000 in liquid assests but no protection? If you die your estate taxes are going to be around 75% so all you'll have left is $250,000.. WIth insurance you would have been covered for $1,000,000 but only had $900,000 in liquid assets, THEN you receive your $1,000,000 death benefit paying for your 750,000 estate taxes leaving you with over $1,000,000 in your estate..
You tell me what you'd rather have..
Protection builds wealth. <= Read this statement until it binds to your brain.......
How do i have a financial biased opinion? I'm not asking for his business.. I am an estate planner.. My children are going to be onthis earth someday without me.. The more wealthy people, the more people who are going to be contributors to society, the less crime.. I want to let the world know I was here, even if I taught someone over the internet.
Americans are so cynical, I swear. Everyone is just trying to screw you over. Well, if your subconcious mind believes that you will filter out the people who are REALLY trying to help you.
T-Matt
Creepusmaximus
New member
Probably the best bet would be to go for buying a fund that invests in big cap and dividend yielding securities. Bonds will give you a straight up return but rates are low now so lower rated bonds (junk bonds) or convertible bonds would be best if you went that direction.
As far as insurance your paying for the coverage and the fees are huge so that is not a good 5 to 10 investment.
As far as insurance your paying for the coverage and the fees are huge so that is not a good 5 to 10 investment.
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T-Matt
Guest
Creepusmaximus said:
I use Western Reserve Life and their cost per thousands in the lowest out there.. Not only does insurance PROTECT YOUR ASSETS, all capital gains are TAX FREE.. You always maximize your tax free income before any other.
The only time I'd recommend big cap would be with more than $50,000..
Or you could just go ahead and invest in big caps and increase your tax bracket even more..
Real Estate Investment Trust Mutual funds are returning 40% returns (available in our subaccounts for VULs), go have fun with your T Rowe Price junk mutual funds and big cap funds returning a mininute 8-15% returns that are TAXABLE income..
Yeah, if you're planning on liquidating these gains in the near future, you should go ahead with big cap funds and mutual funds, but if this money is for a long term investment, a 7-pay EIUL or VUL is far and away the best way to go.. Let's take a quick look (on the lower end of returns for the REITs mutual fund)
year......VUL...............Any taxable fund (bonds/stocks/mutual funds)
...........30% return................15% return
1.........$10,000..................$10,000
-ins cost 1200.....-brokerfees 1000
.............$8800.....-broker fee $ 8000
.
.
2..........$17000(tax free)........$11000-35% taxes= 7150
.
.
6........$64000(tax free).........16000-35% tax= 10400
hmmmmm.. You can subtracta bout 1200/year for insurance costs but you get the idea..
Ask OJ Simpson, Warren Buffet, and George Steinbrenner where most of their money is..
Or just go to T Rowe Price or Merril Lynch and have a financial advisor rob you for a couple grand to give you a 500 page book of charts and other bullshit..
Bottom line why pay taxes on capital gains if you don't have to??
T-Matt
Creepusmaximus
New member
Warren Buffet made his money owning insurance companies. OJ? Steinbrenner, his money came from the shipping business.
Your numbers are a just wrong and confusing.
Your a fool if you think you will get a 30% return year over.
REIT's are going to go flat this year. It's a simple matter of supply and demand, anytime there is mad money to be made people step in and make more of what ever the item is. Also REIT's are in a position of actually having more money then they can invest right now.
You wrong about taxes, long term gains don't go towards earned income and the rate is lower. Long term is simply over 1 year.
As far as brokers fees, open an on line acct. and most are fee free for investing in mutual funds. There are no yearly fees either unless you have a really small amount in your acct.
I don't have enough info on this guy and either do you. Insurance is a waste if your young and single. If your young and die no one depends on you. Die 2 million in debt and you know what, those people who loaned you the 2 million are out of luck.
Your numbers are a just wrong and confusing.
Your a fool if you think you will get a 30% return year over.
REIT's are going to go flat this year. It's a simple matter of supply and demand, anytime there is mad money to be made people step in and make more of what ever the item is. Also REIT's are in a position of actually having more money then they can invest right now.
You wrong about taxes, long term gains don't go towards earned income and the rate is lower. Long term is simply over 1 year.
As far as brokers fees, open an on line acct. and most are fee free for investing in mutual funds. There are no yearly fees either unless you have a really small amount in your acct.
I don't have enough info on this guy and either do you. Insurance is a waste if your young and single. If your young and die no one depends on you. Die 2 million in debt and you know what, those people who loaned you the 2 million are out of luck.
Creepusmaximus
New member
All this isn't helping gql66.
It would help to know your age and whether anyone depends on your income. Insurance is needed depending on your ability to take risk.
First thing you need to look at is your retirement accts. If your companies has a 401K you need to be puting at least 5% in it. If they have matching you need to max out you contribution to their maxium match. The way that works is let's say your tax rate is 25%. For every $100 you put in the 401K your not paying $25 in taxes. Equals a 25% gain first year. You don't pay taxes until you take it out which should be when your no longer working and your tax rate is lower. Also you can control the amount you take out based on your needs. If that's not avaiible you need to have a RothIRA, you don't save money up front but you don't pay taxes when you take it out. Best deal if your young, max is $4000 a year right now. If you have neither of those you need to open a 401k, Roth or if your selfemployed there are plans for that. The other thing is let's say you get sued (example OJ) no one can take your retirement acct.
If you have that covered good. If people depend on you, your going to need some life insurance but Life ins is a bet that you will die and your paying the bill. Don't over insure yourself.
After those it's a matter of how much risk your will to take on. Index funds are invest and forget. From there the more narrow you make your investment the higher the risk. Also possible higher returns. Index fund will get you about 7% over time, you'll double your money in 10years or less. It's pretty easy to make 10% year over year but after that it takes some real skills. If I was down to my last 10 grand I would trade only options spreading it over 5 stocks with a mix of some long term options and the rest short term. If you've never traded options you will most likely lose all or most of your money. With good trading skills you could turn 10 grand into a hundred in under a year but some luck would be needed.
The other thing is if you have high interest rate debt you need to pay that off. Let's say your paying 15% on something. If you pay that off you'll effectively be paying yourself 15% a year, good deal. Whatever you were paying a month use that amount to build your investments after you pay the debt off. Make sense?
Narrow down what you want to do and I'll point you in the direction you need to go.
It would help to know your age and whether anyone depends on your income. Insurance is needed depending on your ability to take risk.
First thing you need to look at is your retirement accts. If your companies has a 401K you need to be puting at least 5% in it. If they have matching you need to max out you contribution to their maxium match. The way that works is let's say your tax rate is 25%. For every $100 you put in the 401K your not paying $25 in taxes. Equals a 25% gain first year. You don't pay taxes until you take it out which should be when your no longer working and your tax rate is lower. Also you can control the amount you take out based on your needs. If that's not avaiible you need to have a RothIRA, you don't save money up front but you don't pay taxes when you take it out. Best deal if your young, max is $4000 a year right now. If you have neither of those you need to open a 401k, Roth or if your selfemployed there are plans for that. The other thing is let's say you get sued (example OJ) no one can take your retirement acct.
If you have that covered good. If people depend on you, your going to need some life insurance but Life ins is a bet that you will die and your paying the bill. Don't over insure yourself.
After those it's a matter of how much risk your will to take on. Index funds are invest and forget. From there the more narrow you make your investment the higher the risk. Also possible higher returns. Index fund will get you about 7% over time, you'll double your money in 10years or less. It's pretty easy to make 10% year over year but after that it takes some real skills. If I was down to my last 10 grand I would trade only options spreading it over 5 stocks with a mix of some long term options and the rest short term. If you've never traded options you will most likely lose all or most of your money. With good trading skills you could turn 10 grand into a hundred in under a year but some luck would be needed.
The other thing is if you have high interest rate debt you need to pay that off. Let's say your paying 15% on something. If you pay that off you'll effectively be paying yourself 15% a year, good deal. Whatever you were paying a month use that amount to build your investments after you pay the debt off. Make sense?
Narrow down what you want to do and I'll point you in the direction you need to go.
bran987
New member
T-Matt unfortunately you just lost all credibility with respect to financial and capital markets in this post. It is clear you are a man with a desire to succeed and do well, and possibly even help people, but you have not spent much time studying basic finance and return expectations over the long haul, and are unfamiliar with the current state of the capital market fee structures.T-Matt said:I use Western Reserve Life and their cost per thousands in the lowest out there.. Not only does insurance PROTECT YOUR ASSETS, all capital gains are TAX FREE.. You always maximize your tax free income before any other.
The only time I'd recommend big cap would be with more than $50,000..
Or you could just go ahead and invest in big caps and increase your tax bracket even more..
Real Estate Investment Trust Mutual funds are returning 40% returns (available in our subaccounts for VULs), go have fun with your T Rowe Price junk mutual funds and big cap funds returning a mininute 8-15% returns that are TAXABLE income..
Yeah, if you're planning on liquidating these gains in the near future, you should go ahead with big cap funds and mutual funds, but if this money is for a long term investment, a 7-pay EIUL or VUL is far and away the best way to go.. Let's take a quick look (on the lower end of returns for the REITs mutual fund)
year......VUL...............Any taxable fund (bonds/stocks/mutual funds)
...........30% return................15% return
1.........$10,000..................$10,000
-ins cost 1200.....-brokerfees 1000
.............$8800.....-broker fee $ 8000
.
.
2..........$17000(tax free)........$11000-35% taxes= 7150
.
.
6........$64000(tax free).........16000-35% tax= 10400
hmmmmm.. You can subtracta bout 1200/year for insurance costs but you get the idea..
Ask OJ Simpson, Warren Buffet, and George Steinbrenner where most of their money is..
Or just go to T Rowe Price or Merril Lynch and have a financial advisor rob you for a couple grand to give you a 500 page book of charts and other bullshit..
Bottom line why pay taxes on capital gains if you don't have to??
T-Matt
REIT funds do not, have not and will never exceed over the long-term the real inflation adjust return of the S&P 500 or the Russell 2000 small cap index. REITs and real estate investments in general will provide a lower return, commensurate with the reduced level of risk inherent to owning commercial income producing property. The standard deviation (volatility, aka "risk" with respect to an investments) of returns of a REIT fund is lower than the S&P because of the consistent earning stream provided by real estate, therefore average long term returns will be slightly lowers, and the volatility of the S&P 500 is lower than that of the Russell 2000 small cap index, as large caps have more consistent earnings than do small caps.
Since the early 1900's the average geometric return of the S&P 500 has been around 12%, and for the Russell 2000 has been about 17%. The Russell, as stated before, of course is more volatile and therefore requires a longer holding period to be certain of that long-term return.
The excessive gains in REITs over the past few years have been a correction, as REITs were severely out of favor during the tech boom of the late 90's when all anyone wanted to buy was technology. The brilliant and legendary real estate mogul Sam Zell said in an interview back in '99 when REITs were yielding over TEN PERCENT "If I would do one thing right now in the market, I'd tell grandma to put it all in REITs". Of course we all know they have subsequently gone on to triple since then. His advice would be much different now. The first thing your teacher, or boss, or whoever should have taught you is that past results are not an indicator of future returns and should not be represented as such.
Whoever has taught you that a 10-15% return in a passive investment vehicle such as a mutual fund etc. is small should re-evaluate how they are training their employees. If you are going around telling people they can expect 30-40% returns investing in anything such as any fund, you are doing them a great disservice.
Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway is the stuff of legends, having returned a compounded 21.5% per year since 1965 (see Berkshire Hathaway 2005 annual report, page 2, here: http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/2005arn/2005ar.pdf)
His out performance is due to active buying and selling of undervalued companies, and active investment in the stocks of other companies that are severely undervalued (such as REITs were 4 years ago).
Peter Lynch is another legend, his famed Magellan Fund was up around 20% for over 10 years, an unbelievable feat. These guys are simply incredible.
Bill Miller from Legg Mason has beat the S&P going on about 14 years in a row now, and that alone is a feat in itself. Statistical anomalies.
And wherever you got that number up there that a broker fee to buy into a fund is $8,000 is living in fantasy land. Maybe if you are a total and complete retard who does no research you can find someone who would rip you off so badly, but it would be very difficult. You should find no load or very low load funds (in case people don't know what that is, it's a commission for buying into a fund "front loaded" or for selling your investment in the fund "back loaded") and the annual maintenance fee on the fund should be at a MAXIMUM 1.5%. And for that, the manager better be fucking great. Your chart is waaaaaaaaay off.
Empirical studies have found that statistically, managers on the whole cannot outperform indexes on their own and your best bet is to simply buy various indexes on your own and construct a diversified portfolio from those. One of the 2 biggest investment companies in the world was founded on this principle (Vanguard) by a very very smart man, John Bogle.
Anyone that can return a consistent 15% annual return will have money being thrown at them bro.
T-Matt if you really want to be good in this industry, in estate planning and financial advisory etc. teaching people about finance, if you do not have a degree in finance or do not want to get an MBA, I'd recommend possibly a CFP charter to familiarize and ground you in the basics of personal finance and capital markets. You can do it in about a year and it would help you avoid making statements that anybody with even a cursory knowledge of finance can see are false, misleading and dangerous to the uninformed individual investor. You have great spirit, and I think with time and more knowledge you can reach your goals. Deluding people that huge commission rips will be offset by tax-free gains and that is the way to become rich is not a noble way to do it though.
wow im really confused now. let me give some of my backround im 29 years old with no credit card debt. i have a mortgage and the normal car note. i am single but plan on being married within the next year. my regular job brings in around 40 per year but i flip between one to two house per year so that gives me an extra 50 to sixty in income. i just need a good direction on what to invest into with out a big headache.
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T-Matt
Guest
Creepusmaximus said:
Lol.. a 401k?? yeah, let's contribute to tax deferred funds so we THINK we have all this money but we don't..
What good is planning towards a retirement when you have no coverage? Insurance builds an estate.. Go listen to some Brian Tracy, go talk to some real financial consultants like Warren Buffet or go talk to Donald Trump about real estate.. The real money in real estate isn't 'flipping' houses, it's the monthly cash flow..
Take your phd (permanent head damage) and go out in the the real world like I am right now and get some real education.
T-Matt
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T-Matt
Guest
bran987 said:
I used small numbers to show the growth of compound interest to illustrate my point of how fast you can get rich when you don't have to pay taxes..
Go to Merril Lynch and see how much money it costs you PER SESSION with a financial advisor.. YOU are not in the real world my friend, everything you learned was in college, step on out in the real world..
Real estate investment trusts are ALWAYS going to perform well, especially when based on global real estate.. Wherever the population is growing, so are real estate values..
Life insurance is the key to financial freedom, as, there are no taxes, they have top notch account managers, life insurance is a necessity especially when you're young and your liabilities are high (and cost of insurance is LOW!!!), AND you're building a legacy in your family..
Read any solid financial foundation information and the first thing you will see is to have proper protection and emergency funds THEN worry about investments.. THEN, once you DO have those two in line, you max out your tax shelter possibilities.. Go ask MAgic Johnson how his money is doing for him and ask him how much protection he has..The only reason I know is because my branch manager set up his estate..
That chart is, of course, not saying that anyone is guaranteed that sort of ROR, however, if you look at the performance of ING's REIT's it has returned 22% since inception and 40% over the past 18 months.. Somewhere in the middle is a good solid number..
Please, go to a T rowe price or merril lynch or ANY big name financial services company and see how much you have to pay for a consultation.. fuck, the ywon't even talk to you if you don't have a 100k..
But yeah, you're right because you just got your MBA and you just passed your last test.. Welcome to the real world, the only test you have is the test of life.. Your money is either working for you or for someone else.. Who is YOUR money working for? Probably not you...
T-Matt
Creepusmaximus
New member
YoungGuns said:
I like silver right now myself but that is not a safe investment. This guy doesn't sounds like he wants to have a bunch of risk. Most likely can't go wrong with silver over 5-10 years on the other hand, especially with monthly cost averaging.
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Creepusmaximus
New member
Dude, I've been in the real world. I've traded stocks for 20 years, owed two businesses and commerical property. I've also owned 23 condos which I sold about 2 years ago because I felt the market was peaking. Why would a I do that and give up the income. My profit from the sale would have taken me at least 15 years to make from rents. You have to know how to move money around into different investments. Right now all I do is trade stocks and options.
bran987
New member
You're just wrong Matt. I'm sorry. Please learn about long term historical returns. Warren Buffett makes money off of OWNING insurance companies, he makes his money off the float. He makes his money by SELLING insurance, not BUYING it. His money is in STOCKS, the stock of his own company. If the greatest investor in the world has returned 21.5% since 1965 and only 13% since 1995, how on earth can you say "between 22 and 40% is a good solid number" for a REIT fund? Warren Buffett would laugh you onto the street and Charlie Munger would shake his head in disbelief.T-Matt said:
Over time, commercial real estate produces somewhere around a 7% cash on cash return plus an appreciation rate about that of inflation, so you should expect somewhere ~10%. My entire family has been in real estate for generations man, developing homes, apartments, condos, office buildings. it's the career of my whole family. I've worked in it since my teenage years and I'm fast approaching 30 now.
Of course Magic Johnson has a ton of insurance. He's a multi multi millionaire. Duh.
Do you even understand compound returns? At 40%, money doubles every 2 years. Do you even understand that the most aggressive and talented venture capitalists in the world can barely hope to get those kind of IRRs?
The reason those companies won't talk to you unless you have $100K is because of economies of scale in their business. It isn't profitable for them to talk to you because of how their structure is setup. It doesn't make it right or wrong, if they cannot turn a profit they will not take the time to work with you. It's just business.
The greatest investors in the world have all studied the past and the former greats. Everything you refer to is something your "branch manager" taught you.
I'm sorry I can't let you brainwash other people as you've been brainwashed. My money works for me the same way it has since I began investing about 11 years ago. I'm sure your branch manager is a great salesman and is training you to be one as well. You don't need to understand how things really work, all you need to know is how to sell life insurance to get estate planning jobs, which is what he's taught you.
Unfortunately, I can see this discussion quickly dissolving into total crap.
bran987
New member
Buffett is spelled with two T's, and he is not a financial consultant.T-Matt said:
Trump makes his money from selling his name to 3rd party condo developers to slap on the front of the building, and from TV shows like Apprentice and by owning the Miss Universe pageant.
His casino and real estate investments almost drive him to bankruptcy on a regular basis lol
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T-Matt
Guest
Creepusmaximus said:
Continuously moving the money, there you go, that is the key to avoiding taxes..
You still proved your worthiness to this earth with the statement of "Who cares if I die $2 million in debt, it's not my problem." That's sad, that's a great legacy to leave behind.
There is no doubt that you made a solid move in selling your 23 condos, as, you have a savy business mind and you could predict the market direction. Kudos to that!
I am not by any means putting down what you do, I am just saying for the average person that isn't the best thing to do. Most people are not insured properly yet they want a great rate of return. If you're not insured properly and something happens then all your ROR and THEN SOME gets wiped out, what sense does that make? Build your estate, change the legacy in your life with insurance THEN talk to the guys with the Series 7 licenses. Your suggestions on this thread are for those people who are already properly insured for more than 10 times their annual income as well as to cover their other liabilities and assets and future estate taxes.
Thank you for your info, it is of great value to this thread!!
T-Matt
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T-Matt
Guest
bran987 said:
You are right, I did not spell his name correctly, that is an error on my part for the simple fact of me getting heated up in this discussion.
While, I appreciate your contributions to this thread, and i am well aware of everything you are trying to say, the main point I am trying to make here is that FIRST these people need to BUILD and estate and you do that with insurance. You change the legacy in your entire family. Ask one of my clients who was pregnant with her baby and she lost her husband 3 weeks after I wrote a $1,000,000 insurance policy on her husband who was the major bread winner in the family. Ask her how much she believes in life insurance, how is has changed the legacy in their family.
Yes, I did use large ror figures for the REITs, however, that is what it is doing currently.. The REITs are based on GLOBAL real estate, you have to keep that in mind here, we're not just talking about the US. The ING Clarion REITs returned 20% EVEN DURING the 9/11 tragedy and throughout..
I am well aware of Warren Buffett's track record, however, MOST of his money has been kept under the umbrella of life insurance for which the beneficiaries were trusts to various non profit organizations.. Compound interest under tax free unbrellas will make you a lot more money than just selling insurance, I can promise you that..
Thank you for your contributions to this thread, you are a savy businessman!
Happy HOlidays!
T-Matt
Creepusmaximus
New member
T-Matt said:Continuously moving the money, there you go, that is the key to avoiding taxes..
You still proved your worthiness to this earth with the statement of "Who cares if I die $2 million in debt, it's not my problem." That's sad, that's a great legacy to leave behind.
There is no doubt that you made a solid move in selling your 23 condos, as, you have a savy business mind and you could predict the market direction. Kudos to that!
I am not by any means putting down what you do, I am just saying for the average person that isn't the best thing to do. Most people are not insured properly yet they want a great rate of return. If you're not insured properly and something happens then all your ROR and THEN SOME gets wiped out, what sense does that make? Build your estate, change the legacy in your life with insurance THEN talk to the guys with the Series 7 licenses. Your suggestions on this thread are for those people who are already properly insured for more than 10 times their annual income as well as to cover their other liabilities and assets and future estate taxes.
Thank you for your info, it is of great value to this thread!!
T-Matt
I did sell the condo's at the right time. I live in a beach community and the condo market is totally locked up right now. There is no way I could sell the condo's right now. By the way I bought all 23 from one guy who lost his ass on them and he owner financed them to me at 22K a piece. My sell price averaged 260K a piece. Owned them for 11 years. That is a hell of a return for no money down. Your obessed with taxes, I made 10x my money. i'LL TAKE THAT ANY DAY AND PAY TAXES AS OPPOSED TO DOUBLING MY MONEY AND NOT PAYING TAXES. Those condo's are dead money for at least 3 years and the most I can make in rent short or long term is 18K a year. Subtract 340 a month POA fee (includes ins.), mgt fee and cleaning etc about 20% of rents. Subtract out short term rental tax and income tax. Trust me, it's better to sell them then waiting around for the market to pick up again.
As far as dying massively in debt, who cares when your young? That's how you get rich, take the chance while you can. Once your married with kids you can't take chances like that. You know the CEO of Fedex once took all the money the company had left and went to a casino. He made enough playing blackjack to pay the payroll that week, only thing that kept Fedex going. See how that turned out? You may not like it but a alot of businesses were launched by shady and very risky means.
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T-Matt
Guest
Creepusmaximus said:
I absolutely agree with everything you said in your post. That was a tremendous acquisition on your part and an even better decision to sell when you did!
The only main point I am trying to make is that life insurance builds an estate. I don't want to be a walking liability to this earth.. It is the noble thing to at least be insured for my debts..
It is also wrong for me to chart that kind of return in a VUL.. I should ahve been more conservative, however, I got carried away at my VUL and my client's VULs' performance.. There are other reason for Life insurance as well, as, if you ever get divorced your wife can't touch the cash value in your policy and the same goes for any lawsuit.. It provides you with better protection for your money in every means possible..
Thank you all for your contributions to this thread, I learned a lot. Real Estate isn't my specialty, I have a lot to learn there.
Everything that I teach is a compilation of ideals from CPAs, attorneys, successful businessmen and other well known estate planners. It is based on a financial foundation for middle income families who plan to have a retirement someday. Our flagship product is the EIUL which is based on the S&P 500 which has average 12.5% over the past 80 years. Also the EIUL guarantees the insured his/her principle cash value plus 1% in writing.. Most middle income families need that guarantee, that security, and that is really all that I'm trying to convey.
Again, thank you all and happy holidays to you and yours!!!
T-Matt
Creepusmaximus
New member
Before people start calling BS on my condo deal I'll tell you how I pulled that off.
First off the guy I bought them from, bought the condo's pre-sale before they were built. I think he paid about 90K a piece. The combination of Regan's tax law changes and a huge over building off condo's killed the market in the late 80's earily 90's. There were 80+ condo's in same complex for sale and this guy lived out of town so if he rented them out through a mgt company he actually was losing money every month. If he didn't rent them he lost more money.
Only reason I could make a little was I rented them out and did everything myself. He owner financed them to me at 12% APR. If I failed to pay he simply took them back over and I was out. He still held the deeds etc. POA was $128 a month back at the begin because it was a new building and all the investors were losing a lot of money so they went for the least they could possibly pay. I had to have 20 out of 23 rented to break even. I could only rent them for $450-500 a month.
Well I hit things about on the nose because within two years rent went up to 650-700 a month and the condo prices started recovering. They were valued at 48K so that effectively gave me a big down payment so I got a mortgage from a bank and got rid of the owner finance deal. He was out and I saved a little more on the interest rate.
Next was a big long term rental shortage in the late 90's and rent for one of condo's went up to 1100-1200 a month. Prices followed, condo was now going for 110-120K. Then a bad thing happened, they raise the POA fee to do some remodeling and run the slum lords out. Think they included me as a slum lord. Never spent a penny unless something broke. LOL.
Final chapter, I got sick of people calling me all the time and dealing with this stuff so I went to hire a mgt company. End result, if I start redoing condo's I could rent them out short term a make a little more money and if I wanted to sell they would sell faster if they were in good shape. So over about two years I remodeled them and put them on a short term rental program. Then the market went nuts, I swear the price of one of these condo's went from 150 to 250 in 6 months. It was insane. These were the cheapest ocean front condo's on the island so they got bid right up. That's when I said this can't last I need to get out so I did. I sold 10 to one guy who as soon as we closed he put them back on the market for 325. LOL. Wonder how things worked out for him. I saw in the paper that some one was trying to get 355 for one of these so maybe he managed to sell all 10 for over 300, who knows.
End of story.
First off the guy I bought them from, bought the condo's pre-sale before they were built. I think he paid about 90K a piece. The combination of Regan's tax law changes and a huge over building off condo's killed the market in the late 80's earily 90's. There were 80+ condo's in same complex for sale and this guy lived out of town so if he rented them out through a mgt company he actually was losing money every month. If he didn't rent them he lost more money.
Only reason I could make a little was I rented them out and did everything myself. He owner financed them to me at 12% APR. If I failed to pay he simply took them back over and I was out. He still held the deeds etc. POA was $128 a month back at the begin because it was a new building and all the investors were losing a lot of money so they went for the least they could possibly pay. I had to have 20 out of 23 rented to break even. I could only rent them for $450-500 a month.
Well I hit things about on the nose because within two years rent went up to 650-700 a month and the condo prices started recovering. They were valued at 48K so that effectively gave me a big down payment so I got a mortgage from a bank and got rid of the owner finance deal. He was out and I saved a little more on the interest rate.
Next was a big long term rental shortage in the late 90's and rent for one of condo's went up to 1100-1200 a month. Prices followed, condo was now going for 110-120K. Then a bad thing happened, they raise the POA fee to do some remodeling and run the slum lords out. Think they included me as a slum lord. Never spent a penny unless something broke. LOL.
Final chapter, I got sick of people calling me all the time and dealing with this stuff so I went to hire a mgt company. End result, if I start redoing condo's I could rent them out short term a make a little more money and if I wanted to sell they would sell faster if they were in good shape. So over about two years I remodeled them and put them on a short term rental program. Then the market went nuts, I swear the price of one of these condo's went from 150 to 250 in 6 months. It was insane. These were the cheapest ocean front condo's on the island so they got bid right up. That's when I said this can't last I need to get out so I did. I sold 10 to one guy who as soon as we closed he put them back on the market for 325. LOL. Wonder how things worked out for him. I saw in the paper that some one was trying to get 355 for one of these so maybe he managed to sell all 10 for over 300, who knows.
End of story.
I'm getting really tired of hearing the same meaningless phrase repeated over and over.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6908490&postcount=62
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6908490&postcount=62
rsnoble-im-back
Banned
I am learning swing trading. Plan on option trading eventually. I have made some really big blunders the past couple months. I think I may have a shot at it now, I am getting pretty accustomed to the charts and a lot of the indicators. Just waiting for the holliday season to get over with. One trade that is finally making me $, ATI, in which I got in around $78 is now up to almost $90 and has mixed targets of $100-$110 within the next few months. It's been a boring month, there have been enough distribution days that usually signal on upcoming bear market. All I know is that several stocks that I have been watching are just sinking farther and farther and just can't pull their shorts up right now.....I am watching the charts and when they seem to be turning around I am going to hit them hard. We'll see how January goes.
robertoblanco
New member
find a quality mutual fund thats averaged 10%+ return over the last ten years minimum and stick with it for at least ten years. (preferably 40-50yrs. depending on your age obviously, look up compound interest)
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