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estrogen increases lipolysis!

Krazykat

New member
Estrogen is a much misunderstood hormone.

Firstly there are no estrogen receptors in adipoise tissue thus blocking estrogen in an attempt to reduce `estrogen` fat by blocking estrogen receptors in fat makes no sense.

In fact if reducing estrogen was such a factor in reducing bodyfat why is it that post menopausal women become fatter since their estrogen is greatly decreased?

Furthermore estrogen increases lipolysis of estrogen, this is a fact!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11988133&dopt=Abstract
 
Also although I do not hold the God like status of Nandi like some, here is some information from him on the matter.

ESTROGENIC FAT
Estrogen makes a person fat, doesn’t it? Well, women do have a higher body fat content in general than do men, especially in the gluteofemoral (hips and buttocks) region. Is estrogen really the cause of this gender dimorphism in adiposity? Probably not. In fact, there are a wealth of data that implicate estrogen as both an anorectic and antiadipogenic hormone. It is much more likely that progesterone is the culprit in supporting higher levels of gluteofemoral fat in women (1). The model described in (1) has progesterone as the lipogenic hormone. Before menopause, both estrodiol and progesterone are secreted by the ovaries. After menopause, estrone becomes the primary circulating estrogen produced from aromatization of adrenal androgens (primarily the aromatization of androstenedione to estrone by adipose tissue), while progesterone levels drop dramatically since adrenal production of progesterone is minimal.
In premenopausal women, progesterone increases lipoprotein lipase activity, which is greater in the gluteofemoral region, while estrogen suppresses it. Lipoprotein lipase is the body’s primary fat storage enzyme; it is responsible for allowing fats to leave the circulation and enter adipocytes. The progesterone wins out however and before menopause, women tend to have more gluteofemoral fat and less abdominal fat.
Why do women have more gluteofemoral fat while men have more central (abdominal) fat? One popular theory is that women hold fat in the gluteofemoral region where it is far removed from the liver and has fewer fat mobilizing enzymes/more fat retaining enzymes than in men. Men hold fat in the visceral and abdominal subcutaneous region where it is closer to the liver and richer in fat mobilizing enzymes. Proximity to the liver is a factor because the portal circulation connects abdominal fat deposits directly to the liver. Free fatty acids released from abdominal deposits can act directly on the liver to promote gluconeogenesis, providing the body with a ready supply of glucose for “fight or flight” situations.
From an adaptational viewpoint, women's fat is designed to be stored until needed for lactation and child rearing. Men's fat on the other hand is designed to be readily mobilized for fight or flight situations during defense and hunting. This theory may be a bit simplistic as well as sexist; but it does make sense to some degree.
Most likely the notion of estrogenic fat originated from the belief that estrogen upregulates alpha 2 receptors in fat cells, retarding lipolysis. This may be just one facet of estrogen’s actions. If one looks at the net result of estrogen’s effects, to quote a leading expert in the field
“Testosterone and GH inhibit LPL and stimulate lipolysis markedly. Oestrogens seem to exert net effects similar to those of testosterone.” (2)
For example, animal studies have shown that testosterone promotes alpha 2 adrenoreceptor mediated antilipolytic activity, just as it promotes beta adrenoreceptor mediated lipolysis.
Interestingly, recent research has even attributed at least part of testosterone's fat burning properties to its local aromatization to estradiol (3). For instance when testosterone is administered along with an aromatase inhibitor, LPL activity increases, showing that the testosterone itself is devoid of any ability to lower LPL. (4)
There are a number of animal studies where estradiol administration led to significant weight and fat loss. Citing just one, for example:
"The administration of 17 beta-estradiol (500 micrograms/kg, 2 or 4 weeks) to male rats significantly reduced the body weight...Basal lipolysis and adrenaline-induced lipolysis [due to increase in HSL action] were also significantly enhanced in the epididymal adipose tissue from the male rat treated either with 7 mg/kg estradiol 12 h ahead or with 500 micrograms/kg estradiol for 2 weeks. These results indicate that estradiol exerts strong effects on metabolism of the adipose and these effects seems to be mediated through cyclic-AMP." (5)
This research indicates that in addition to the abovementioned inhibition of LPL, estrogen also stimulates the lipolytic enzyme hormone sensitive lipase.
Some of the most compelling evidence for the antiadipogenic effect of estrogen in both males and females comes from studies of estrogen receptor knockout mice and humans with aromatase deficiency. Both the afflicted humans and the knockout mice exhibit obesity. A detailed look at this topic can be found here:
I also mentioned that estrogen is a potent hunger-suppressing hormone. Research is a bit sketchier here, but the effect is thought to be due to an estrogen-induced inhibition in melanin-concentrating hormone (MCH) signaling (6). MCH is a neuropeptide found in the hypothalamus that is also thought to be involved in leptin’s regulation of appetite. Leptin, an anorectic hormone secreted from the adipose tissue, acts on the specific receptor present on its target neurons in the brain, and suppresses the expression of both MCH and its receptor. So we see that the actions of both estrogen and leptin are at least partly mediated through interactions with MCH.
 
Krazykat said:
Also although I do not hold the God like status of Nandi like some, here is some information from him on the matter.
First off, I dont think the general consencus has ever been that adipose has estrogen receptors. It has been that adipose tissue can produce estrogen.

Next, the study you posted I only skimmed lightly but is a very poor example.

For example article states
“Testosterone and GH inhibit LPL and stimulate lipolysis markedly. Oestrogens seem to exert net effects similar to those of testosterone.”
Well, Oestrogens seem to exert a net effect similar to test, because the block the ER and trigger greater test production.

Also, while, while mice, rats etc often act like humans in drug tests etc there are many areas where they act the opposit or not even close so I take animal studies with a grain of salt..
 
Why is it that I have a much easier time shedding my chest, lower ab, and lovehandle fat when I decrease my circulating estrogen? I'll take real world experiences on this one.
 
estrogen also has the wonderful benefit of lowering plasma thyroxine- its a nice way to slow your metabolism.

estrogen is lipogenic and anti-lipolytic. E2 binds directly to and activates the a2 adrenoceptor (essentially halting lipolysis) and is responsible for A2 receptor proliferation.

a well written, but on the whole an essentially incorrect article.
 
macrophage69alpha said:
estrogen also has the wonderful benefit of lowering plasma thyroxine- its a nice way to slow your metabolism.
Likely a leading factor as to why it is a "hunger-suppressing" hormone as noted in the article.
 
Zyglamail said:
Likely a leading factor as to why it is a "hunger-suppressing" hormone as noted in the article.

that is actually also incorrect.

estrogen also has a negative impact on serotonin levels, through its effects on 17-hydroxy-progesterone binding and enzymatic reduction.

lowered serotonin leads to things like, cravings, binging, depression, etc... (this estrogen stuff just sells itself :p )
 
macrophage69alpha said:
(this estrogen stuff just sells itself :p )
Where can I get a jug :)
 
Irrespective to the e article...

I always felt the notion that estrogen icreases fat was, in the least, a little exagerated. Excess e increases water retention which looks like fat. It's also why when you take an anti e you look leaner. Corespondingly, T increases muscle which in turn utilizes calories better resulting in a leaner physique. But that doesn't mean T burns fat.
 
Krazykat said:
Estrogen is a much misunderstood hormone.

Firstly there are no estrogen receptors in adipoise tissue thus blocking estrogen in an attempt to reduce `estrogen` fat by blocking estrogen receptors in fat makes no sense.

In fact if reducing estrogen was such a factor in reducing bodyfat why is it that post menopausal women become fatter since their estrogen is greatly decreased?

Furthermore estrogen increases lipolysis of estrogen, this is a fact!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11988133&dopt=Abstract

Don't know how on earth Nandi wrote that article, b/c its pretty much wrong in quite a few fronts.

Macro already covered pretty much all the bases. On other thing is that estrogen decreases the activity of Glucose transporters, giving you a slight case of insulin resistance(through decreased glucose clearance).

Estrogen is however good for supple skin(Hence why women have softer skin than men do), and for optimal blood lipid levels.

Fonz
 
Some of you need to at least take a look at a copy of harpers biochem where you might learn about the mechs of estrogen before tossing out such info for those who know no better.
 
Some and then somebody claims that estrogen for a women would be the same in a man inferring it would be good for skin and lipid levels.

Totally false.
 
idanimal said:
Some and then somebody claims that estrogen for a women would be the same in a man inferring it would be good for skin and lipid levels.

Totally false.

Sorry, but I'd have to say true.

Fonz
 
The biggest factor people tend to overlook concerning this topic is the T/e BALANCE. That's what it's all about. You can't just treat e as the enemy and indiscriminately try to eradicate it thinking it will lead to overall improvements. It will not.
 
Nelson Montana said:
The biggest factor people tend to overlook concerning this topic is the T/e BALANCE. That's what it's all about. You can't just treat e as the enemy and indiscriminately try to eradicate it thinking it will lead to overall improvements. It will not.


allright....

who hacked into nelsons account??














:D
 
SHBG

Estrogen increases your SHBG, so that's a real smart thing to do!
 
Lipase suppression makes you fat!

Lipase is the hormone leading to lipogenesis so if you LOWER it, you have LESS lipogenesis. This makes it fairly easy to see that estrogen causes lower lipase activity.



J Lipid Res 2002 Mar;43(3):383-91 Related Articles, Links


Estrogen receptor-mediated repression of human hepatic lipase gene transcription.

Jones DR, Schmidt RJ, Pickard RT, Foxworthy PS, Eacho PI.

Lilly Research Laboratories, Cardiovascular Research Division, Eli Lilly and Company, Indianapolis, IN 46285, USA.

Estrogen replacement therapy in women decreases hepatic lipase (HL) activity, which may account for the associated increase in HDL cholesterol. To investigate whether estrogen decreases HL transcription, transient cotransfection assays with HL promoter and estrogen receptor-alpha (ERalpha) expression constructs were performed in HepG2 cells. 17beta-estradiol (E(2)) decreased transcription driven by the -1557/+41 human HL promoter by up to 50% at 10(-7) M. Mutation of ERalpha by deletion of its transactivation domains or ligand-binding domain eliminated E(2)-induced repression of the promoter, whereas deletion of the DNA-binding domain of ERalpha resulted in a 7-fold activation by E(2). The E(2)-induced repression was maintained after mutation of a potential estrogen-response element in the promoter. The region of estrogen responsiveness was localized to -1557/-1175 of the HL promoter by deletion analysis. Mutation of an AP-1 site at -1493 resulted in a partial loss of E(2)-induced repression, similar to that caused by deletion of nucleotides -1557 to -1366. Gel shift assays with nuclear extracts from E(2)-treated HepG2 cells stably expressing ERalpha demonstrated an increase in binding to an AP-1 consensus oligonucleotide. The AP-1 activator, phorbol 12-myristate 13-acetate, inhibited the HL promoter by greater than 50%. Collectively, the data suggest that estrogen represses the transcription of the HL gene, possibly through an AP-1 pathway.
 
Damn, that was still wrong.

Lipase increases lipolysis so if you DECREASE lipase you decrease lipolysis.

It has also been demonstrated that giving MEN ESTROGEN DOES NOT result in the same rise in HDL, therefore, men and women ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE when given this same hormone.
 
And yes, there are ER receptors in fat cells!

Identification of estrogen receptor in human adipose tissue and adipocytes

T Mizutani, Y Nishikawa, H Adachi, T Enomoto, H Ikegami, H Kurachi, T Nomura and A Miyake
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Osaka University Medical School, Japan.

Estrogen has various effects on adipose tissue. Although the presence of estrogen receptor (ER) has been demonstrated in rat adipose tissue and adipocytes, ER has not been identified in human adipose tissue. In this study, we demonstrated the existence of ER protein and ER messenger RNA (mRNA) in human sc adipose tissue and adipocytes. The cytosol fraction of human adipose tissue was partially purified by ammonium sulfate precipitation, and the presence of ER protein was analyzed by [3H]estradiol (E2) binding assay and Western blot analysis. [3H]E2 binding assay showed a low specific binding due to high nonspecific binding, and the dissociation constant (Kd) and maximal binding sites could not be obtained by Scatchard analysis. Western blots, however, showed the presence of ER protein in both the partially purified cytosol and nuclear fractions of human adipose tissue. The mol wt of ER in both fractions was approximately 66,000. Furthermore, Northern blot analysis of total RNA samples isolated from human adipose tissue showed the expression of ER mRNA at 6.2 kilobase in size. ER mRNA was also identified in isolated human adipocytes by the reverse transcription and polymerase chain reaction. These results indicated that both ER protein and ER mRNA are expressed in human adipocytes, suggesting that the effect of estrogen on human adipose tissues might involve a direct action.
 
idanimal said:
It has also been demonstrated that giving MEN ESTROGEN DOES NOT result in the same rise in HDL, therefore, men and women ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE when given this same hormone.
One reason I always take animal studies with a grain of salt.
 
All that original study does

is discuss a GENDER DIFFERENCE in use of substrates where they propose women use more fatty acid because of estrogen where it might be they use more fat because they are FAT!

And that's nice if you are exercising all day and in lipolysis cause fact is estrogen inhibits lipase otherwise as seen below.

And I'm waiting for all these ultra-lean females to show up, too........

Obes Res 1995 Nov;3 Suppl 4:561S-568S Topical fat reduction. Greenway FL, Bray GA, Heber D Department of Medicine, UCLA School of Medicine, Torrance, CA, USA. The fat on women's thighs is more difficult to mobilize due to increased alpha-2 adrenergic receptor activity induced by estrogen. Lipolysis can be initiated through adipocyte receptor stimulation (beta adrenergic) or inhibition (adenosine or alpha-2 adrenergic) or by inhibition of phosphodiesterase.

While yes, they talk about women and estrogen and fat, the mechanism is still absolute and spans the sexes. Estrogen makes fat cells resistant to lipolysis. Still want to take that test without an anti-estrogen?

And as you may or may not know, situations of stress will cause even more of the alpha receptors to appear on the sex sensitive fat cells. As you get older you will have more alphas from more stress events and while adrenalin does cause the release of fat when adrenalin is present it also induces the presence of more alphas from the activation.
 
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