Well thank you all you guys for asking my question didnt mean to cause a big issue, just wanted to know which one is better no biggie, well first I'm not a newbie, I'm college football player and alot of guys are taken this new things, I'm 21 about 6 feet weight 225 with 13%body fat, I play linebacker been natural pretty much my whole football career just want to try new supplements to get me the edge by next season and I thanx for everybody that reply Leafs. Boulder.Bigswole, and FSUpat lol if you knew which school I play for hint lol!!! and yes I do know about post cycle, clomid, nolvadex etc... well thanx everyone I think I'm going to go for VPX