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Equality In Sports

Dial_tone

Dial_tone

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I haven't played the race card all month and Rev. Al is gonna take away my Official Negro card if I don't throw something up so here goes....


16-year old Michelle Wie announces she is turning pro. Nike and other sponsors are immediately throwing piles of cash at her. Back in 1998 Tara Lipinski turns professional at age 15, having never attended college or even a regular high school for that matter. That year she brings home in excess of $2 million in endorsements on top of being paid $10,000/night with Stars On Ice. Andre Agassi, Monica Seles, Boris Becker, Mary Pierce, and Anna Kournikova all go straight to the play for pay ranks from the Bollettieri Tennis Academy. Heck, Boy Genius leaves MIT after sophomore year for a mid 6-figure salary and stock options at Google.

Why is it America can’t seem to get enough of these young success stories……unless they’re black. Everytime there’s a high school basketball hotshot even contemplating forgoing college for a shot at the NBA people are up in arms over it. Congressional hearings are held. Johnny’s single mom works 3 jobs to make ends meet and now he’s going to make millions putting a ball thru a damn basket…he must be stopped for his own good, sayeth the people!

I ask you - why do we lavish praise on some and resent the others? Is it because of the perception that basketball players are stupid and somehow don’t deserve the money? Perhaps it’s because tennis, golf and ice skating are respectable, genteel sports? Maybe…just maybe it’s because those other guys are…..you know….black? Martha, you can’t call them black…they’ll be offended. They’re African-Americans in our overly PC society. Personally, you can feel free to call me African-American….as soon as you start referring to yourself as Norwegian-Americans, German-Americans, Irish-Americans, etc. I have my suspicions as to why things are the way they are….you make the call.
 
First off, it shouldn't be African-American it should be American. Even American is wrong because you could be from Central or South America. But by saying African-American, it is a safety mechanism for people to not be grouped with them. It's disgusting really.

I'm all for athletes of any age above 16 and any race to get paid millions.
 
You have a valid point. But I also think basketball has a bad image problem. What's w/ all the gangsta attitude I see so often? I know Tiger Woods had no problem w/ starting his career at an early age. But I do see your point.
 
I also agree w/ the African American label. WTF? You could be white and technically be AF. What's wrong w/ just black or white?
 
very good question Dial Tone.. great post, great topic, good bro.
 
cranny said:
I also agree w/ the African American label. WTF? You could be white and technically be AF. What's wrong w/ just black or white?
Click to expand...


But why does it even have to be that? Why can't they just be human?
 
Good point D.T.. I'd never thought about it. But now that you mention it, I think you're right.
Personally, I think young athletes should not be paid full wages until they are 18. Have the difference put aside in trust, managed by a players assoc.
I also think that players getting paid many millions is ludicrous. 1 mill, maybe 2 per year. Not 5 or 7 mill.
As far as endorsements, I think it would behoove the player to endorse what he/she uses for a far lesser price. Really, what does someone like Tiger need 10 or 15 mill a year for? I'm 3/4 as good a maintenance mechanic as he is a golfer, yet I'll barely make a tenth of that in my lifetime.
Then they start developing God complexes & young teens actually idolize them for something that provides very little benefit to society. Pay the nurses, pay the teachers, & cut the friggin prices to get into games.
 
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its because the commish of the nba doesnt want them to come into the nba out of high school
doenst the nfl have the strictest guidelines to get in age wise, i thought it was 3 years after high school before you are eligible for the nfl draft, unless they changed the rules
 
Im not saying this is my opinion but here is a thought I just got.

most black athletes play to get out of the ghetto,we discussed this on another thread in the past month,now by skipping college and going pro they have nothing to fall back on unless they are superstars who will get endorsements,but not every player gets these endorsements,so what if they get hurt and cant play? then no pay.

where as a white from a upper middle class family could get bailed out from their family in the same situation and I also see alot of black athletes spending stupid when they go from rags to riches,not many are money smart,thats not to say whites are,Im just playing devils advocate
 
also you mentioned 5 white people going pro in tennis at an early age but didnt mention that both serena and venus williams turned pro at 14yrs old
 
hamstershaver said:
also you mentioned 5 white people going pro in tennis at an early age but didnt mention that both serena and venus williams turned pro at 14yrs old
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Busted!
 
TheOak01 said:
where as a white from a upper middle class family could get bailed out from their family in the same situation and I also see alot of black athletes spending stupid when they go from rags to riches,not many are money smart,thats not to say whites are,Im just playing devils advocate
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What about the white kid from a lower middle class family that went into serious debt putting Junior thru Nick Bollettieri Tennis Academy ($20K up to 100K/year if you want tuition and personal coaching from Nick) on the assumption that Junior would be the next Andre Agassi? Ask Velvett what it costs to support a kid on the Olympic path in Figure Skating.
 
hamstershaver said:
also you mentioned 5 white people going pro in tennis at an early age but didnt mention that both serena and venus williams turned pro at 14yrs old
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and if you remember people complained about their turning them into tennis robots too. Of course you can find exceptions to the rule....play along, bitch.
 
Dial_tone said:
What about the white kid from a lower middle class family that went into serious debt putting Junior thru Nick Bollettieri Tennis Academy ($20K up to 100K/year if you want tuition and personal coaching from Nick) on the assumption that Junior would be the next Andre Agassi? Ask Velvett what it costs to support a kid on the Olympic path in Figure Skating.
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when i see stuff like that it makes me wonder if the parents are just trying to live their failed sports lives through their children
 
I don't care what color they are athletes make way too much money. Too many young people get paid too much money to play and sport and are too stupid to know what to do with it and get themselves into trouble.
 
Dial_tone said:
I haven't played the race card all month and Rev. Al is gonna take away my Official Negro card if I don't throw something up so here goes....
Click to expand...

BTW Al Sharpton has really bean taking a beating recently by pro black organizations due to his inability to support the people. Basically he has been called a "showman" instead of an "activist" since he wears wires during social events and since has to really whatch what he says.
 
Dial_tone said:
Martha, you can’t call them black…they’ll be offended. They’re African-Americans in our overly PC society. Personally, you can feel free to call me African-American….as soon as you start referring to yourself as Norwegian-Americans, German-Americans, Irish-Americans, etc. I have my suspicions as to why things are the way they are….you make the call.
Click to expand...

I prefer European-American, thank you.
 
What's the big deal? You wanna go to the NBA right after HS? Go ahead. You wanna play golf at 16...or 13...or 8? Go ahead. I don't care either way. If the market will support it, then go ahead.
 
I have hated on basketball players jumpin to the NBA as much as anybody and at the same time never questioned when someone from another sport did the same thing. I finally had to ask myself why and I couldn't come up with a way to justify it either. I think it came down to the fact I identified most with the basketball players but i was jealous of their position. I don't think it's entirely a racial issue. There's something more complex about it than that.
 
Dial_tone said:
I have hated on basketball players jumpin to the NBA as much as anybody and at the same time never questioned when someone from another sport did the same thing. I finally had to ask myself why and I couldn't come up with a way to justify it either. I think it came down to the fact I identified most with the basketball players but i was jealous of their position. I don't think it's entirely a racial issue. There's something more complex about it than that.
Click to expand...
Is it the fact that they're younger then you?

:)
 
venus serena tiger lebron

next.
 
dt is prob. top dog on this board.. he's the fucking man.. and look at those pancakes.. yummy..

now i'll make my comment.. i think someone else mentioned that basketball is looked down upon for having thug likes images etc within the sport whereas golf and tennis or more prestigious or 'rich' sports..

also alot more urban kids play basketball than golf/tennis.. playing professional basketball is basically like winning the lottery its 1 and a million chance that you have the talent as those guys.. considering all the kids who 'think' they will play in the nba someday they devote everything to basketball and not school work.. now if they are putting more and more 18 or younger kids in the nba this will influence the highschool community greatly into thinking that anyone can do it..

know what i'm saying dt.. thats my view.. and you are still my fav bro on this board..
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
venus serena tiger lebron

next.
Click to expand...

yea, that answers a lot. Go slap some useless 1's and 0's on another thread. Somebody else mentioned that basketball is a much higher profile sport so it gets more scrutiny. Nobody is losing any sleep over what figure skaters do. I think that sums it more than the race thing.
 
Dial_tone said:
yea, that answers a lot. Go slap some useless 1's and 0's on another thread. Somebody else mentioned that basketball is a much higher profile sport so it gets more scrutiny. Nobody is losing any sleep over what figure skaters do. I think that sums it more than the race thing.
Click to expand...

Thank you, captain obvious. Here are some more obvious ones:

(1) No one cares about figure skating, or tennis, or even golf (when compared to NBA NFL and MLB).

(2) Those other athletes don't stay in the news very long either. What would Brian Boitano do? Even Venus and Serena only make the news evrey few months when there is an event.

(3) Middle class America can't deal with a black kid making $90M when their little faggot kids couldn't even get admitted to Big State U.

(4) WHofuckincares?

Next DT thread: the grass is green. Why? Are we sure it's cholorphyll?
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
Thank you, captain obvious. Here are some more obvious ones:

(1) No one cares about figure skating, or tennis, or even golf (when compared to NBA NFL and MLB).

(2) Those other athletes don't stay in the news very long either. What would Brian Boitano do? Even Venus and Serena only make the news evrey few months when there is an event.

(3) Middle class America can't deal with a black kid making $90M when their little faggot kids couldn't even get admitted to Big State U.

(4) WHofuckincares?

Next DT thread: the grass is green. Why? Are we sure it's cholorphyll?
Click to expand...


no need for that.. dt is nothing but nice..
 
Phaded said:
no need for that.. dt is nothing but nice..
Click to expand...

I'm a primate with pimp-like mindstate.
 
Dial_tone said:
I have hated on basketball players jumpin to the NBA as much as anybody and at the same time never questioned when someone from another sport did the same thing. I finally had to ask myself why and I couldn't come up with a way to justify it either. I think it came down to the fact I identified most with the basketball players but i was jealous of their position. I don't think it's entirely a racial issue. There's something more complex about it than that.
Click to expand...

I think there's some resentment because these kids haven't "paid their dues" so to speak.
 
I Nobody really cared that Freddy Adu jumped at an early age. There's so much tradition in college football and basketball. People don't really care if tennis players, baseball players, golfers etc.. go to college because they won't see them play in college anyways.

But I do think it has more to do with the so called hip-hop genre. Most people see the young NBA players flaunting what they have and don't like it.
 
There are a million flaws in your theories DT. You are comparing different sports here - that makes no sense. Different management, different unions, different "laws", different everything. The only way your point would make any sense is if there was a clear distinction between how black people and white people (for example) were being treated IN THE SAME SPORT. This whole age in sport thing has obviously been highly debated a ton in the past few years, with several court cases. But you cannot possibly attempt to compare basketball to tennis or golf - based on tradition, fan base, marketing plan, or culture. Like most racial arguement, you fail to look at many other factors that should be involved in this discussion.


Also - I feel very bad for those suffering black young ballers like Lebron, Kobe, Curry (nice little deal he just got), Stoudemire, and KG.
 
Mr. dB said:
I prefer European-American, thank you.
Click to expand...


I prefer cracker ass cracker; thank you very much!

On the topic, I think KB is correct. That being said, sports leagues are like companies and they should not discriminate based on age (which is what we are really talking about here- not race). If you are qualified to play the game, you should be able to make a living in the profession of your choice.
 
Vicious cycle said:
I prefer cracker ass cracker; thank you very much!

On the topic, I think KB is correct. That being said, sports leagues are like companies and they should not discriminate based on age (which is what we are really talking about here- not race). If you are qualified to play the game, you should be able to make a living in the profession of your choice.
Click to expand...


And if we want to talk about equality, let's talk about the lack of whites in football and basketball. They push for black coaches but ignore this fact. Everyone needs to just shut the fuck up and let the world work.
 
KillahBee said:
And if we want to talk about equality, let's talk about the lack of whites in football and basketball. They push for black coaches but ignore this fact. Everyone needs to just shut the fuck up and let the world work.
Click to expand...


will do as long as you don't tell me the good 'ol boy network or Al Campanis types aren't out there. And I don't think anyone even bats an eyebrow when a 17 year old European comes over and signs
 
rudeboyja said:
will do as long as you don't tell me the good 'ol boy network or Al Campanis types aren't out there. And I don't think anyone even bats an eyebrow when a 17 year old European comes over and signs
Click to expand...


No doubt. Not saying racism or preferential treatment doesn't exist. BUT a) it cuts both ways, especially now that we are seeing "reverse racism" as a result of the PC world we have created and b) most racial arguements (like this one) are just ridiculous and have almost no fact or logical reasoning to them.
 
KillahBee said:
No doubt. Not saying racism or preferential treatment doesn't exist. BUT a) it cuts both ways, especially now that we are seeing "reverse racism" as a result of the PC world we have created and b) most racial arguements (like this one) are just ridiculous and have almost no fact or logical reasoning to them.
Click to expand...


I'm on bith sides of the fence. I like to see young talented players like Lebron & Amare gettin paid. But I can't stand to see Kwame with millions in his account. Peolpe like Michelle Wi & young tennis players have to be proven to some extent. Baseball & Hockey have minor league systems. I like the 18 year old rule for the NBA. But that said I do think a lot of people have a problem with young black teenagers backing up the brinks truck, and a lot has to do with the hip hop culture.
 
rudeboyja said:
I'm on bith sides of the fence. I like to see young talented players like Lebron & Amare gettin paid. But I can't stand to see Kwame with millions in his account. Peolpe like Michelle Wi & young tennis players have to be proven to some extent. Baseball & Hockey have minor league systems. I like the 18 year old rule for the NBA. But that said I do think a lot of people have a problem with young black teenagers backing up the brinks truck, and a lot has to do with the hip hop culture.
Click to expand...


Possibly, but maybe it has nothing to do with their skin color and more to do with that "culture", as you say. If a whole bunch of white people adopted the traits of that "culture" and people started hating on them, then what would this turn into? Couldn't be race anymore.
 
KillahBee said:
Everyone needs to just shut the fuck up and let the world work.
Click to expand...
Best statement yet! But it needs to have evryone on board, which is why it won't happen. To many personal axes to grind, racism, greed.
 
I think has to do with economics more than race. Look at the sports mentioned like tennis and golf. There is no one making money if those kids don't turn pro. So nobody puts up a stink when they do.

On the other hand in basketball and football, college programs are afraid if all the good players in high school go directly to the pros no one will watch their product. That is why there is so much resistance with kids turning pro early in those two sports. And in the case of basketball the players turning pro early are usually black.

Everthing seems to be about money, why should this be different.
 
I actually think it comes down to the fact that basketball & football are much higher visibility sports. The average Joe doesn’t care what happens in tennis so until we have Monday Night Figure Skating on primetime tv (hopefully never) things will be as they are.
 
Dial_tone said:
I actually think it comes down to the fact that basketball & football are much higher visibility sports. The average Joe doesn’t care what happens in tennis so until we have Monday Night Figure Skating on primetime tv (hopefully never) things will be as they are.
Click to expand...


"It" meaning what? Public perception? Perhaps, but public perception is typically not synonymous with fact - especially in the sports industry.
 
Hiatussin said:
The world record high jump, both for men and women, belongs to white people.
Click to expand...

is there any documented information of highest vertical leap ever.. and if it was by a white man or black man..
 
Ok Dial Tone.

Interesting topic, but after some thought, there is no way this is a racial issue.

The sports like Golf and Tennis that you mentioned are very different from basketball and football.

The BIGGEST difference is that there is no real NCAA market for COLLEGE golf or COLLEGE tennis. So there is no financial incentive to keep the people in college playing there. College sports generate a TON of money, but guess what, the players don't get paid! Its free labor for the most part. The NCAA wants to hold on to that. Letting players go pro at 18 is not in their best interests.

Also golf and tennis are not team sports, they are individual. someone could argue that you need a certain maturity level to play NFL football or NBA basketball. Sure a couple kids have been able to do it at 18, but for the most part there is a learning curve that takes place.

Ultimately I belive it comes down to money though, not race.
 
Phaded said:
is there any documented information of highest vertical leap ever.. and if it was by a white man or black man..
Click to expand...
I think I saw a Swedish woman break the record at the last Track & Field world championships. Stats are probably online

She jumped over 210 cm (6"10) I believe. Crazy. she was pretty too. Nice ass, but those chicks never have tits, for obvious reasons

Last holder was Heike Henkel from Germany who did 207 cm in 1992
outdoor Stefka Kostadinova from Bulgaria who did 209 cm.

Javier Sotomayor from Cuba has the highest jump in the world. 243 cm.
http://havanajournal.com/images/uploads/JAVIER_SOTOMAYOR.jpg

So yeah, the highest jump ever is by a black man. I was mistaking. I think its safe to say that white people can in fact jump, though

I suspect not many blacks even try to get a high jump record.
 
hamstershaver said:
racist!!!!!
Click to expand...
yeah well the Black is the better athlete because they were bread that way. It goes back to the slave days when they would breed the strongest man with the woman with the biggest thighs & hips.


RIP--Jimmy the Greek
 
rudeboyja said:
yeah well the Black is the better athlete because they were bread that way. It goes back to the slave days when they would breed the strongest man with the woman with the biggest thighs & hips.


RIP--Jimmy the Greek
Click to expand...

:LockMe!:
 
No one here has answered the most important question:

Would you hit it?

I would hit the shit out of Michelle Wie... Millionaire underage hottie...

Thought you fools would be all over that ass.
 
Becoming said:
No one here has answered the most important question:

Would you hit it?

I would hit the shit out of Michelle Wie... Millionaire underage hottie...

Thought you fools would be all over that ass.
Click to expand...

hit it now and say hello to your new cell mate
 
Becoming said:
dude this is all I saw.... WTF?

Becoming, this is a private area of the EliteFitness.com site reserved exclusively for our Platinum Members. To access this area and the other areas of George Spellwin's Inner Circle - reserved exclusively for Platinum Members, please upgrade your account today
Click to expand...


shit., it was in the bin


15-Jul-2005, 09:22 AM #3
KillahBee
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Re: Giorgio Spellmani...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dude, I am extremely attracted to Michelle Wie.
 
KillahBee said:
Dude, I am extremely attracted to Michelle Wie.
Click to expand...

seriously. most eligible bachlorette IMO.

would hit the shit out of that.
 
KillahBee said:
she's got legs that don't quit
Click to expand...

and shes young too. so you know if you bang that shit out she will be completely irrationally obsessed with you and then you can do whatever and she will be psychologically dependent on you.


and then a few years later she will turn into a skank.

but you will have millions by then.
 
I don't think the answer is as complicated as some of you are making it out to be. Basketball has a bad image associated with it. Yes a lot of it has to do with the whole rap-basketball mix. People think rap, they think gangsters/crime/violence/ghetto. It doesn't help that rap often does propogate this message and that many of these basketball stars really are "thug-like". Not to mention the type of audience/crowd/fan base that basketball draws, this does not help its image. People cannot imagine a "gangsta" making millions and millions of dollars going from ghetto trash to luxury living in the blink of an eye.

Why doesn't anyone go up in arms over youngsters turning pro in tennis or figure skating, etc? Nobody really gives a shit about those sports. Also, people in these sports tend to be in middle/upper/elite class families to begin with. There is no ghetto association there. Jamal from Brooklyn isn't aspiring to be the next golf or tennis icon.

As for the whole NCAA argument and basketball, only a handful of these high school kids have the skill set to turn directly pro. Even if every single one of them did, the NCAA would still thrive.
 
wutangnomo said:
I don't think the answer is as complicated as some of you are making it out to be. Basketball has a bad image associated with it. Yes a lot of it has to do with the whole rap-basketball mix. People think rap, they think gangsters/crime/violence/ghetto. It doesn't help that rap often does propogate this message and that many of these basketball stars really are "thug-like". Not to mention the type of audience/crowd/fan base that basketball draws, this does not help its image. People cannot imagine a "gangsta" making millions and millions of dollars going from ghetto trash to luxury living in the blink of an eye.

Why doesn't anyone go up in arms over youngsters turning pro in tennis or figure skating, etc? Nobody really gives a shit about those sports. Also, people in these sports tend to be in middle/upper/elite class families to begin with. There is no ghetto association there. Jamal from Brooklyn isn't aspiring to be the next golf or tennis icon.

As for the whole NCAA argument and basketball, only a handful of these high school kids have the skill set to turn directly pro. Even if every single one of them did, the NCAA would still thrive.
Click to expand...

These perceptions are enhanced by the reality that about 33% of NBA players have criminal records.

Yes, 1/3.

NFL is slightly worse.

It's not just a perception.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
These perceptions are enhanced by the reality that about 33% of NBA players have criminal records.

Yes, 1/3.

NFL is slightly worse.

It's not just a perception.
Click to expand...


Yeah, but how many of those are DWIs?
 
Mr. dB said:
Yeah, but how many of those are DWIs?
Click to expand...

Some, not too many, most are assault, domestic violence or drug possession.
 
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