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ECA stacks and dehydration- rant:

casavant

New member
How come this doesn't come up more? ECA, caffeine,-all that shit- dehydrates the piss out of you. 99% of the time when I mention this to someone, they say, "Drink a lot of water." Well let me tell ya, I am the most water drinking motherfucker you'll ever meet. But when you're on a thermogenic, you keep pissing and pissing and pissing. Fine, go drink a quart of water...and see just how fast you shoot it out your urethra like a goddamned firehose. That shit will stay in your system for the whole fucking day- you'd have to have an IV drip to keep up, and I'm not even sure that would help. Forget taking creatine too. You'll just be wasting your money. This is one of the biggest downfalls of ECA or it's herbal equivalents. But most magazines also sell at least one fat burner, so you won't hear it mentioned in any more than an offhand manner. If the shit weren't so good at buning fat and boosting energy, I'd flush it right down the toilet. Fucking nasty shit...
 
I totally got off all ECA's I feel a thousand percent better right now! Hydration is a wonderful thing. I know what your talking about bro. I was there in earley February with a shit load of muscle aches as well. It is not worth it!
 
NYC is even worse with the hydration issues... but i am addicted to the stuff... which is funny because nor-ephedrine is a chemical cousin to methamphetamine.... oh crap... no wonder i like the stuff so much LOL
 
WODIN said:
I totally got off all ECA's I feel a thousand percent better right now! Hydration is a wonderful thing. I know what your talking about bro. I was there in earley February with a shit load of muscle aches as well. It is not worth it!

Man, I hear that. I hear people talk about the great steroid pumps they get. If they would just get off any kind of diruretic whatsoever, including any Coke, Mountain Dew, etc., they'd be friggin' amazed at the volumization that can be achieved. I try to stay away from ephedrine whenever possible, but my 60 hour weeks drive me to rely on Vivarin too heavily at times. My workouts ALWAYS suffer. To be fully hydrated is a wonderful feeling- your body as a whole just feels right. Everything feels better and your skin gets nice and soft. I used to get a rush of euphoria off ECA- now I just get pissed off at the world and miserable. Then I get to deal with getting the water back in there the next couple of days.
 
There are days that I get dehydrated, but most of the time it doesn't seem to be a problem staying hydrated. I drink several gallons of water a day though.
 
There are days that I get dehydrated, but most of the time it doesn't seem to be a problem staying hydrated. I drink several gallons of water a day though.

Several gallons??!?!??

I drink 1, maybe 1.5, gallons a day (training or not) and have to piss several times a day.

Do you have a cathater on you or just hang out in the community pool all day long?
 
mekannik said:


Several gallons??!?!??

I drink 1, maybe 1.5, gallons a day (training or not) and have to piss several times a day.

Do you have a cathater on you or just hang out in the community pool all day long?

It is straight up unbearable at times. Sometimes it's as often as pissing once every 20 minutes... The chick that sits at the desk adjacent to our bathroom thinks I'm some sort of freak (she's partly right...lol). Add coffee and tea to the mix and it's a party...

Mostly I drink a lot in the early and midday and taper down over the evening (except while I'm working out, I may drink another half gallon or more then too).
 
Cas - look into white ginseng extract to give you that energy boost your needing instead of the eca or caffiene. I have been buying "Ginseng 2500" at my local grocery store. It will give you the same sensation of alertness you need and boost your energy levels.
 
WODIN said:
Cas - look into white ginseng extract to give you that energy boost your needing instead of the eca or caffiene. I have been buying "Ginseng 2500" at my local grocery store. It will give you the same sensation of alertness you need and boost your energy levels.

Thanks. I'll do that. Gotta get off this damn caffeine. Yuck.
 
by Cy Wilson:

Alpha-Lipoic Acid

This substance has been shown in both human and animal trials to increase insulin sensitivity in skeletal-muscle tissue. This can improve glycogen storage and can help in terms of allowing more glucose to be shuttled into muscle cells as opposed to the extra glucose in the bloodstream being shuttled into fat cells. In other words, you can prevent some adipocyte (fat cell) hypertrophy to some extent even when you increase carb intake to a fair amount. Lastly, this substance is also a potent antioxidant.(3,4,5)

Rating: 7


Aspirin

In theory, aspirin could help to increase the efficacy of ephedrine and caffeine and that’s why it’s often included in many fat burners. But when researchers actually looked to see exactly how much aspirin contributed to the overall efficacy of ephedrine and caffeine, they found that it had little, if any, effect. (Despite this, many supplement makers are still including "A" in their ECA stacks.)

Now, normally, it wouldn’t be a big deal if you included something that may or may not help ephedrine and caffeine much in terms of efficacy, but in this case, aspirin can be potentially harmful. It’s been shown that as little as 10 to 75 mg can cause gastrointestinal bleeding in normal humans. This can be life threatening in some cases. Definitely not worth an added 1% in efficacy. (6-11) Also note that some companies use white willow bark, which is sort of an herbal aspirin.

Rating: 1


Bergenin

This compound has little research behind it. The only study I found was performed in vitro using rat fat cells. This compound was shown to enhance the mechanism of lipolysis but didn’t itself increase lipolysis. (12)

Rating: 2


Carnitine

This amino acid has been included in a few formulations because of its textbook roles in fat metabolism. Essentially, it transports long-chain fatty acids into the mitchondria to be oxidized and it also modulates the metabolism of coenzyme-A.

So does this mean it’ll increase fat oxidation? Not likely. Carnitine isn’t something that would normally be depleted in the human body. However, if you’re in a severely calorie-deficient state for a prolonged period of time and don’t consume much meat, then you may, in theory, benefit. Even so, there isn’t really any evidence supporting its use. (25)

Rating: 2


Ephedra

This plant is present in most formulations and it contains more than one ephedrine isomer. Ephedrine is great but when you evaluate the data behind each of the other isomers, you find that they each have a unique property. For instance, ephedrine itself is the best in terms of beta-2 agonism and nor-ephedrine is the best appetite suppressant. Overall, ephedra sinica, which contains four ephedra alkaloids, is certainly the most potent substance we have in terms of reducing fat.

Rating: 9.5


5-HTP

This is the direct precursor to the neurotransmitter serotonin and it works by simply elevating levels of this neurotransmitter. Why is this important? Well, when you diet, serotonin levels drop rather significantly and this is what causes carbohydrate cravings that lead to eating three boxes of cookies after working so hard to stay "strict" all week.

Because 5-HTP increases serotonin production, numberous studies have shown it to aid in weight loss and drastically reduce carb cravings, and thus carb intake. It’s also been well documented that 5-HTP can elevate mood or relieve some depression in certain individuals.(22,23,24)

Rating: 9


Forskolin

This substance, in theory, should work since its ability to stimulate cAMP production (which increases lipolysis) has been well documented. However, does this mean it’ll actually work in humans? It looks hopeful at this point and forskolin is getting a reputation for being a natural, non-suppressive thyroid booster.

Fellow contributor Doug Kalman wrote a great piece and reviewed the current literature supporting forskolin as a weight loss supplement. Give it a read here.

Rating: 8


Ginger (Gingerols, Shogaols) and Red Pepper (Cayene, Capsaicin)

These compounds have been shown to increase energy expenditure and oxygen consumption via adrenal catecholamine secretion (mostly epinephrine) and there’s actually some research in both humans and animals. The problem? Well, yes, an increase in energy expenditure is usually a good thing as long as what’s being oxidized are lipids and not carbohydrates. When you increase carbohydrate oxidation, you essentially end up exhausting glycogen stores while preserving fat stores. Well, this is exactly what capsaicin has been shown to do! And ginger is nearly as potent as capsaicin in this regard. So, it’s pointless to add these to any formulation. (13-17)

Rating: 0


Green Tea (Catechin-Polyphenols)

Green tea actually has a good amount of research in humans to support its efficacy. People used to think it was only effective because of its caffeine content, but researchers have found that the catechin-polyphenols contained within actually have an effect independent of caffeine.

One study found that green tea elevated energy expenditure whereas caffeine itself had no effect. Researchers believe that this is accomplished by the catechin-polyphenols’ ability to inhibit the enzyme responsible for the degradation of norepinephrine (meaning that norephedrine’s fat-burning effect lasts longer) and thus explains the increase in urinary norepinephrine excretion in humans. (18,19)

Rating: 7.5


Guarana

This has been put in many fat burners as a replacement for caffeine, which is what’s normally used in the ephedrine/caffeine stack. Since guarana contains caffeine, people think that it’s just as good as plain old caffeine in terms of results. However, a while back some researchers compared caffeine to coffee, which contains caffeine just as guarana does. What they found was that even though the amount of caffeine used was the same, the coffee had no effect in terms of the parameters measured for lipolysis, whereas the caffeine alone did.

So does this mean that perhaps guarana isn’t as effective as pharmaceutical-grade caffeine? Maybe. But I’m going to be safe in this case and only stick to those products which contain pure caffeine.

I think the reason certain companies use guarana is because it sounds more exotic than just plain old caffeine, not to mention the average person thinks "herbal" or "natural" means it’s better for you. I guess that means snake venom and tobacco are too, huh? Skip the guarana and use caffeine.

Rating: 4


Synephrine

This biogenic amine has been added to many formulations in the past few years and at first was touted as an "ephedrine replacement." Well, as many people found out, it’s far from that and isn’t nearly as effective. Still, it’s been shown to possess some beta-adrenergic activity, both at the beta 2 and beta-3 receptor. ("Beta-adrenergic," in really simplified terms, means, for the purposes of this article, that the compound in question increases heart rate and has an overall thermic, or heat producing effect. As such, the compound helps the body burn more fat.) The problem as I see it, is that it doesn’t activate lipolysis (fat burning) very well and there’s a lack of research in terms of safety. (1,2)

Rating: 3


Tyrosine

This amino acid serves as the raw material for many important compounds that are associated with dieting. It’s basically a precursor to the all-important metabolism controlling thyroid hormone T3, and a precursor to the "feel good" neurotransmitters epinephrine, norepinephrine, and dopamine. Neurotransmitter stimulation can help maintain optimal thyroid output during a strict diet. Not only that, but Tyrosine has been shown to increase the effectiveness of substances like ephedrine.

Rating: 6


Yohimbine

This substance has been around for a few years and certainly has its place among effective lipolytic agents. An alpha-2 antagonist, it binds to alpha-2 receptors and essentially allows lipids to be mobilized from adipocytes that normally wouldn’t be released very easily. Alpha-2 receptors are basically responsible for those "problem areas" of fat storage, like the obliques in men and lower body in women. Yohimbine could help target those areas. It has a good amount of research behind it, so it’s not just a theoretical notion.(20,21)

Rating: 9.5
 
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