Eating DURING weight training?!?!?!

[maddawgxxl]

A guy in my local gym is walking around yesterday and wolfing down protein bars and bananas in between sets! I know this isn't a good practice because you are sending the blood to the stomach to digest the food, rather than to the muscle groups you are working... but is there anything else I'm missing. I started to tell him and looked at me like I was an Alien. I wanna be able to back up what I say.

Thanks

 

[javaguru]

I sip on a whey, dextrose and bcaa shake during my workouts. It definitely has helped with my recovery and I don't "hit the wall" half an hour into my workouts anymore. The elevated insulin levels blunt protein degradation, the BCAA's in your blood stream keep your body from utilizing muscle bcaa's. The trick is to make it less than a 10% solution and very cold, it will actually absorb more quickly than water. However, I wouldn't do solid food.

 

[sublime35]

I sip on a whey, dextrose and bcaa shake during my workouts. It definitely has helped with my recovery and I don't "hit the wall" half an hour into my workouts anymore. The elevated insulin levels blunt protein degradation, the BCAA's in your blood stream keep your body from utilizing muscle bcaa's. The trick is to make it less than a 10% solution and very cold, it will actually absorb more quickly than water. However, I wouldn't do solid food.

From what I've read, room temp. is absorbed the quickest because in order for you body to absorb it, it has to be the right temperature and certainly won't take as long with warmer water.

 

[JKurz1]

Never! There is a reeason why its called preworkout, postworkout.....plain and simple.........

 

[Ghede]

From what I've read, room temp. is absorbed the quickest because in order for you body to absorb it, it has to be the right temperature and certainly won't take as long with warmer water.

Um... no. Cold is assimilated faster than room or body temp. Same response for all mamals, actually: place a bowl of ice water next to a bowl of room temp water in front of ANY primate and the ice water gets consumed first in normal ambient temperature settings.


The other mistake is sipping. GULPING and i mean a big fat mouthfilling gulp triggers the appropriate response from your body to absorb the liquid. Gulping surpasses sipping in terms of rehydration efficiency by a landslide. Its pretty common practice among elite endurance athletes to limit the actual episodes of liquid consumption to four times an hour. Calculate what your needs are and divide by four so that every fifteen minutes of exertion you quaff precisely what you need. Sip sip sip aint the mojo, joe.

In terms of protein consumption durring an episode of weight training? Useless. Completely. Unless you are training with extreme intensity nonstop for longer than 90 minutes.

Unless you are a monster sized human, the body can only return about about 4.1-4.6 carb calories per minute, or about 250-280 calories per hour of sustained exertion (any excess remains undigested in the stomach or passed unused to regions farther south... where the get to hang out, undigested, in 100degree heat and putrify... nice, eh?)

So, yah yah, you MAY be burning up to 800-1000 calories per hour, fine, good. You body cannot replace those calories durring exercise, not possible. So, Ghede, loudmouth, if the you cant replace those cals durring exertion, how do extreme endurance lunatics keep going hour after hour? Body fat my good friend, bodyfat. We like using body fat, its nice. The only smart strategy is replace cals in a proportion to those used that helps to access stored body fats for use as fuel. thats VERY little calorie replacement, as most of us, even at low bodyfat percentages have about 100,000 plus cals stored as body fat ready to be used for exertion.

Now, after about 90 minutes about 5-15% of your used calories start to be accessed by proteins... thats NINETY MINUTES of sustained and serious exertion, not 45 minutes of anaerobic threshold training (lifting weights, to you and me). Unless you are at the mic for over 90-120 minutes, DURRING workout protein is nice, but totally useless in reference to THAT PARTICULAR WORKOUT. Is it 'wrong' to consume a durring workout protein mix? No... not 'wrong', just of no use for that session.

If you are gonna go at it for 2 hours or longer, you NEED to add protein to your fuel. The ratio of about 8:1 (by weight) of carbs to protein at no more than 300 cals/hour is the way to go. that goes down with about 32-45 oz of water MAXIMUM per hour unless you are in a feckin desert race or in some extraordinarily harsh conditions, be they heat or cold, but at a normal indoor or temperate temp, thats the rule of thumb for a 185lb athlete.


Um... hope that helps...

 

[SgtSlaughter]

wow... Ghede my good brutha, I learn something new from you DAILY!

Cheers

<-- ice cold protein shake

 

[*Bunny*]

Um... no. Cold is assimilated faster than room or body temp. Same response for all mamals, actually: place a bowl of ice water next to a bowl of room temp water in front of ANY primate and the ice water gets consumed first in normal ambient temperature settings.


The other mistake is sipping. GULPING and i mean a big fat mouthfilling gulp triggers the appropriate response from your body to absorb the liquid. Gulping surpasses sipping in terms of rehydration efficiency by a landslide. Its pretty common practice among elite endurance athletes to limit the actual episodes of liquid consumption to four times an hour. Calculate what your needs are and divide by four so that every fifteen minutes of exertion you quaff precisely what you need. Sip sip sip aint the mojo, joe.

In terms of protein consumption durring an episode of weight training? Useless. Completely. Unless you are training with extreme intensity nonstop for longer than 90 minutes.

Unless you are a monster sized human, the body can only return about about 4.1-4.6 carb calories per minute, or about 250-280 calories per hour of sustained exertion (any excess remains undigested in the stomach or passed unused to regions farther south... where the get to hang out, undigested, in 100degree heat and putrify... nice, eh?)

So, yah yah, you MAY be burning up to 800-1000 calories per hour, fine, good. You body cannot replace those calories durring exercise, not possible. So, Ghede, loudmouth, if the you cant replace those cals durring exertion, how do extreme endurance lunatics keep going hour after hour? Body fat my good friend, bodyfat. We like using body fat, its nice. The only smart strategy is replace cals in a proportion to those used that helps to access stored body fats for use as fuel. thats VERY little calorie replacement, as most of us, even at low bodyfat percentages have about 100,000 plus cals stored as body fat ready to be used for exertion.

Now, after about 90 minutes about 5-15% of your used calories start to be accessed by proteins... thats NINETY MINUTES of sustained and serious exertion, not 45 minutes of anaerobic threshold training (lifting weights, to you and me). Unless you are at the mic for over 90-120 minutes, DURRING workout protein is nice, but totally useless in reference to THAT PARTICULAR WORKOUT. Is it 'wrong' to consume a durring workout protein mix? No... not 'wrong', just of no use for that session.

If you are gonna go at it for 2 hours or longer, you NEED to add protein to your fuel. The ratio of about 8:1 (by weight) of carbs to protein at no more than 300 cals/hour is the way to go. that goes down with about 32-45 oz of water MAXIMUM per hour unless you are in a feckin desert race or in some extraordinarily harsh conditions, be they heat or cold, but at a normal indoor or temperate temp, thats the rule of thumb for a 185lb athlete.


Um... hope that helps...

 

[Ghede]

I know know, i just felt the Bunny/Ulter/ISO n' Juice hatchet hit me in the back o' my noggin...


Hey, bottom line, and YOU know my take on this already: if it works for you, then it works. end of long winded poetic waxing.

Science and facts and studies abound to prove and disprove ANYTHING and EVERYTHING...

If durring workout protein works for you: DO IT!



































(even if it is just Placebo effect SMOOCH!)

.

 

[FFQuads]

Um... no. Cold is assimilated faster than room or body temp. Same response for all mamals, actually: place a bowl of ice water next to a bowl of room temp water in front of ANY primate and the ice water gets consumed first in normal ambient temperature settings.


The other mistake is sipping. GULPING and i mean a big fat mouthfilling gulp triggers the appropriate response from your body to absorb the liquid. Gulping surpasses sipping in terms of rehydration efficiency by a landslide. Its pretty common practice among elite endurance athletes to limit the actual episodes of liquid consumption to four times an hour. Calculate what your needs are and divide by four so that every fifteen minutes of exertion you quaff precisely what you need. Sip sip sip aint the mojo, joe.

In terms of protein consumption durring an episode of weight training? Useless. Completely. Unless you are training with extreme intensity nonstop for longer than 90 minutes.

Unless you are a monster sized human, the body can only return about about 4.1-4.6 carb calories per minute, or about 250-280 calories per hour of sustained exertion (any excess remains undigested in the stomach or passed unused to regions farther south... where the get to hang out, undigested, in 100degree heat and putrify... nice, eh?)

So, yah yah, you MAY be burning up to 800-1000 calories per hour, fine, good. You body cannot replace those calories durring exercise, not possible. So, Ghede, loudmouth, if the you cant replace those cals durring exertion, how do extreme endurance lunatics keep going hour after hour? Body fat my good friend, bodyfat. We like using body fat, its nice. The only smart strategy is replace cals in a proportion to those used that helps to access stored body fats for use as fuel. thats VERY little calorie replacement, as most of us, even at low bodyfat percentages have about 100,000 plus cals stored as body fat ready to be used for exertion.

Now, after about 90 minutes about 5-15% of your used calories start to be accessed by proteins... thats NINETY MINUTES of sustained and serious exertion, not 45 minutes of anaerobic threshold training (lifting weights, to you and me). Unless you are at the mic for over 90-120 minutes, DURRING workout protein is nice, but totally useless in reference to THAT PARTICULAR WORKOUT. Is it 'wrong' to consume a durring workout protein mix? No... not 'wrong', just of no use for that session.

If you are gonna go at it for 2 hours or longer, you NEED to add protein to your fuel. The ratio of about 8:1 (by weight) of carbs to protein at no more than 300 cals/hour is the way to go. that goes down with about 32-45 oz of water MAXIMUM per hour unless you are in a feckin desert race or in some extraordinarily harsh conditions, be they heat or cold, but at a normal indoor or temperate temp, thats the rule of thumb for a 185lb athlete.


Um... hope that helps...

Sure......what he said. Wow! Nice post K for you!

Ghede -
Is it also true that the body has to work harder using heat and energy to process the food which can take needed heat and energy from your muscles??

 

[Ghede]

Sure......what he said. Wow! Nice post K for you!

Ghede -
Is it also true that the body has to work harder using heat and energy to process the food which can take needed heat and energy from your muscles??

um..... not quite sure how to answer that... all sorts of typing involved in precisely what heat and energy are to the body, how to define them in regards to this topic...


I think, kick me if i am off base, that you question is: does eating or having digestion going on durrring bouts of extreme activity effect how your body performs?

Yes, it does.


This answer could, and has, taken up entire books. To make a long answer embarrassingly short (migraine today): if you are not properly fueled you will do poorly. if you are OVERfueling durring an event or a training session, you will do poorly. Fuel and hyrdrate your body just UNDER its actual needs durring an event and heavy training session and you will perform at your peak. A very slight hydration deficit triggers the body to use what you DO hydrate with at its very optimum levels of assimilation and absorbtion. Analogy: sponges dont work well when laded with water. Ya know?

Same with sugars, just enough to allow for absorbtion and the bodies ability to use those sugars to access stored energy in the form of bodyfat. Pure, long chain sugars, 'comples carbs' are best by a long shot. Pure maltodextrin or energy replacements made from all long chain sugars are the very best option: they take almost half the amount of water to be assimilated by the GI tract. The osmotic process of getting those sugars into you for energy requires a vehicle: water. The concentration of sugar calories that your body can assimilate is much greater with complex sugars as opposed to simple ones.

Yah yah, i know, pure glucose assimilates faster than maltodextrin. But it takes almost DOUBLE the water to get that done: more water, more diluted calorie concentration in the gut, more time to get it where it belongs, more chance of gastrointestinal distress from the big slosh fest going on in your gut while hoofing it durring an event or while hammering away on your pedals or while doing your gazillionth set.

SO... the answer is: long chains are better than simple sugars for calorie/energy replacement durring sustained bouts of activity. a LOT better. More calories get to your blood faster in greater concentrations with maltodextrin and water than with dextrose and water due to the actual VOLUME of water and thereby the level of concentration your body can osmoticly absorb or 'digest'.

... and we all know already that long chain sugars are way better in terms of how they are utilized by the body for fuel: no peak and crash and bonk syndrome from long sugars like you typicly get from simple sugar based energy replacements.

whew..


THAT was the short answer....


did any of that make sense?



.

 

[FFQuads]

um..... not quite sure how to answer that... all sorts of typing involved in precisely what heat and energy are to the body, how to define them in regards to this topic...


I think, kick me if i am off base, that you question is: does eating or having digestion going on durrring bouts of extreme activity effect how your body performs?

Yes, it does.


This answer could, and has, taken up entire books. To make a long answer embarrassingly short (migraine today): if you are not properly fueled you will do poorly. if you are OVERfueling durring an event or a training session, you will do poorly. Fuel and hyrdrate your body just UNDER its actual needs durring an event and heavy training session and you will perform at your peak. A very slight hydration deficit triggers the body to use what you DO hydrate with at its very optimum levels of assimilation and absorbtion. Analogy: sponges dont work well when laded with water. Ya know?

Same with sugars, just enough to allow for absorbtion and the bodies ability to use those sugars to access stored energy in the form of bodyfat. Pure, long chain sugars, 'comples carbs' are best by a long shot. Pure maltodextrin or energy replacements made from all long chain sugars are the very best option: they take almost half the amount of water to be assimilated by the GI tract. The osmotic process of getting those sugars into you for energy requires a vehicle: water. The concentration of sugar calories that your body can assimilate is much greater with complex sugars as opposed to simple ones.

Yah yah, i know, pure glucose assimilates faster than maltodextrin. But it takes almost DOUBLE the water to get that done: more water, more diluted calorie concentration in the gut, more time to get it where it belongs, more chance of gastrointestinal distress from the big slosh fest going on in your gut while hoofing it durring an event or while hammering away on your pedals or while doing your gazillionth set.

SO... the answer is: long chains are better than simple sugars for calorie/energy replacement durring sustained bouts of activity. a LOT better. More calories get to your blood faster in greater concentrations with maltodextrin and water than with dextrose and water due to the actual VOLUME of water and thereby the level of concentration your body can osmoticly absorb or 'digest'.

... and we all know already that long chain sugars are way better in terms of how they are utilized by the body for fuel: no peak and crash and bonk syndrome from long sugars like you typicly get from simple sugar based energy replacements.

whew..


THAT was the short answer....


did any of that make sense?



.

Makes good since!

 

[FFQuads]

um..... not quite sure how to answer that... all sorts of typing involved in precisely what heat and energy are to the body, how to define them in regards to this topic...


I think, kick me if i am off base, that you question is: does eating or having digestion going on durrring bouts of extreme activity effect how your body performs?

Yes, it does.


This answer could, and has, taken up entire books. To make a long answer embarrassingly short (migraine today): if you are not properly fueled you will do poorly. if you are OVERfueling durring an event or a training session, you will do poorly. Fuel and hyrdrate your body just UNDER its actual needs durring an event and heavy training session and you will perform at your peak. A very slight hydration deficit triggers the body to use what you DO hydrate with at its very optimum levels of assimilation and absorbtion. Analogy: sponges dont work well when laded with water. Ya know?

Same with sugars, just enough to allow for absorbtion and the bodies ability to use those sugars to access stored energy in the form of bodyfat. Pure, long chain sugars, 'comples carbs' are best by a long shot. Pure maltodextrin or energy replacements made from all long chain sugars are the very best option: they take almost half the amount of water to be assimilated by the GI tract. The osmotic process of getting those sugars into you for energy requires a vehicle: water. The concentration of sugar calories that your body can assimilate is much greater with complex sugars as opposed to simple ones.

Yah yah, i know, pure glucose assimilates faster than maltodextrin. But it takes almost DOUBLE the water to get that done: more water, more diluted calorie concentration in the gut, more time to get it where it belongs, more chance of gastrointestinal distress from the big slosh fest going on in your gut while hoofing it durring an event or while hammering away on your pedals or while doing your gazillionth set.

SO... the answer is: long chains are better than simple sugars for calorie/energy replacement durring sustained bouts of activity. a LOT better. More calories get to your blood faster in greater concentrations with maltodextrin and water than with dextrose and water due to the actual VOLUME of water and thereby the level of concentration your body can osmoticly absorb or 'digest'.

... and we all know already that long chain sugars are way better in terms of how they are utilized by the body for fuel: no peak and crash and bonk syndrome from long sugars like you typicly get from simple sugar based energy replacements.

whew..


THAT was the short answer....


did any of that make sinse?



.

Makes good sence!

 

[Ghede]

utter nonsince....

 

[gettinripped]

so in your obviously educated opinion, what should one take prior to working out?? not the long scientific name either. I mean what do YOU eat prior to lifting?? A power bar, a shake, a bannana, etc.....

Thanx for the information.

K

 

[SgtSlaughter]

Clif Notes version: Down with the "spiking!"



Ghede = Great Bro.

 

[Ghede]

so in your obviously educated opinion, what should one take prior to working out?? not the long scientific name either. I mean what do YOU eat prior to lifting?? A power bar, a shake, a bannana, etc.....

Thanx for the information.

K

Ah... that would depend on the 'perfect day' scale rating...

On a perfect day? A meal. about 1.5-2 hours prior to training. Then a glass of Indian River Grapefruit juice, fresh squoze to swallow my trex and and Five PureCEEs.

Less than perfect but not all to bad: A combination of both low and high GI carbs preceded by some glucorell and a moderate amount of protein, no more than about 60g total of carbs and 20g total of protein, this is between 45min and an 1:15min prior to training.

A crap day where my timing is fecked: Two Glucorell with a big gulp of GFruit juice, trex and and Five PureCEE tossed back with about 8 more oz of GFruit Juice 10-15 minutes later while sucking back two HammerGels (pure malto that tastes like a day off). This can be done as little as 30minutes prior, 45 woiuld be better....

Worst case: Two Glucorell with my trex and and Five PureCEE tossed back with a Poweraide before i get changed. Sometimes just some water, depends on the body parts... Legs suck the life outta me and i need the boost, even if its just psychological.... I really prefer to skip it if thats the case, but some days are in need more than my need to feel comfy about my pre-nutrition.

 

[Lifterforlife]

If glucose is impaired at all, performance suffers. If you have eaten a solid meal within say 2 hrs. of training, chances are unless you do a marathon workout, you will have plenty of nutrients available. However(always a however ), sipping on a carb/eaa mixture during your workout is shown to reduce cortisol, thus higher insulin and glucose levels.

I like to take it a step further and add some BCAA's to my mixture.

 

[Ghede]

If glucose is impaired at all, performance suffers. If you have eaten a solid meal within say 2 hrs. of training, chances are unless you do a marathon workout, you will have plenty of nutrients available. However(always a however ), sipping on a carb/eaa mixture during your workout is shown to reduce cortisol, thus higher insulin and glucose levels.

I like to take it a step further and add some BCAA's to my mixture.

I am still leary of the whole BCAA's benefit/cost ratio... all the paper i have seen that shows 'anecdotal' evidence of benefit has the proposed dosage so damn high you would prolly hurl just from trying to digest them...

Have you noticed a tangible and decernable difference off/on them?

 

[Lifterforlife]

I am still leary of the whole BCAA's benefit/cost ratio... all the paper i have seen that shows 'anecdotal' evidence of benefit has the proposed dosage so damn high you would prolly hurl just from trying to digest them...

Have you noticed a tangible and decernable difference off/on them?

Especially so when dieting. BCAA's are as you know metabolised directly in the muscle, so used very easily for energy. I have been a fan of BCAA's for many years....You are correct about the doseage.

My main drink consists of a high quality whey and glucose. I will throw in a scoop of Scivation BCAA's or All In One by ergopharm. More free form aminos.

http://www.nutritionwholesalers.com/store/shopexd.asp?id=1852

 

[Ghede]

Especially so when dieting. BCAA's are as you know metabolised directly in the muscle, so used very easily for energy. I have been a fan of BCAA's for many years....You are correct about the doseage.

My main drink consists of a high quality whey and glucose. I will throw in a scoop of Scivation BCAA's or All In One by ergopharm. More free form aminos.

http://www.nutritionwholesalers.com/store/shopexd.asp?id=1852

what kind of density, on a caloric level, are we talkin' here, mon? My question relates to how many total cals are you consuming during, say, an hours worth of resistance training... you know my bias against during workout calorie overload (see above anyway)... what ratio of choro are you doing?

facinated...

 

[Lifterforlife]

12 gr of carbs. 20-25 gr. of protien. I take a sip between each set I do.

With the increasing amount of data indicating a role of the EAA in stimulating protein synthesis before and after training, it makes some sense that consuming aminos during a weight training workout would also have a beneficial effect.

 

[Ghede]

12 gr of carbs. 20-25 gr. of protien. I take a sip between each set I do.

With the increasing amount of data indicating a role of the EAA in stimulating protein synthesis before and after training, it makes some sense that consuming aminos during a weight training workout would also have a beneficial effect.

cool. any links to data? i havent seen a lick that supports that. nada. but i am TOTALLY ready to shift over to the Dark Side if i can find some paper....

hook me up if time permits.

 

[Lifterforlife]

Bird SP et al. Liquid carbohydrate/essential amino acid ingestion during a short-term bout of resistance exercise suppresses myofibrillar protein degradation. Metabolism. (2006) 55:570-7.

A number of physiological events including the level of contractile activity, nutrient status, and hormonal action influence the magnitude of exercise-induced skeletal muscle growth. However, it is not the independent action of a single mechanism, but the complex interaction between events that enhance the long-term adaptations to resistance training. The purpose of the present investigation was to examine the influence of liquid carbohydrate (CHO) and essential amino acid (EAA) ingestion during resistance exercise and modification of the immediate hormonal response on myofibrillar protein degradation as assessed by 3-methylhistidine (3-MH) excretion. After a 4-hour fast, 32 untrained young men (18-29 years) performed a single bout of resistance exercise (complete body; 3 setsx10 repetitions at 75% of 1-repetition maximum; 1-minute rest between sets), during which they consumed a 6% CHO (n=8) solution, a 6-g EAA (n=8) mixture, a combined CHO+EAA (n=8) supplement, or placebo (PLA; n=8) beverage. Resistance exercise performed in conjunction with CHO and CHO+EAA ingestion resulted in significantly elevated (P<.001) glucose and insulin concentrations above baseline, whereas EAA ingestion only increased the postexercise insulin response (P<.05). Time matched at 60 minutes, the PLA group exhibited a peak cortisol increase of 105% (P<.001) with no significant change in glucose or insulin concentrations. Conversely, the CHO and CHO+EAA groups displayed a decrease in cortisol levels of 11% and 7%, respectively. Coinciding with these hormonal response patterns were significant differences in myofibrillar protein degradation. Ingestion of the EAA and CHO treatments attenuated 3-MH excretion 48 hours after the exercise bout. Moreover, this response was synergistically potentiated when the 2 treatments were combined, with CHO+EAA ingestion resulting in a 27% reduction (P<.01) in 3-MH excretion. In contrast, the PLA group displayed a 56% increase (P<.01) in 3-MH excretion. These data demonstrate that not only does CHO and EAA ingestion during the exercise bout suppress exercise-induced cortisol release; the stimulatory effect of resistance exercise on myofibrillar protein degradation can be attenuated, most dramatically when the treatments are combined (CHO+EAA). Through an "anticatabolic effect," this altered balance may better favor the conservation of myofibrillar protein.

Not to mention N=1 study!