Duchaine and DNP

[cockdezl]

Here is a Misc.Fitness.Weights post, by the man himself, about DNP:

"This is a reply that will hopefully
instill an interesting thread spun
out of a frivilous subject.

I work out that the Gold's in Vista.
When I returned from NJ I was
weighing 216 with a 35" waist.

I started on a mildly restricted diet,
with 20 minutes of aerobics 3X a
week, and 2-3 days a week of 200mg
DNP, and with Adipo-Kinetix 2X
a day. Within 7 days I was down to
204, with a waist of 33".

The only steroids I've taken over
the several months has been TE,
usually alternating 100mg one week,
200mg the next. I do use Propecia.

I truly feel that most of the weight I've
gained (in muscle) has because of
some kind of unexplained anabolic
rebound from ceasing DNP. I do
have research showing that DNP
causes an exercise-like stress in the
muscle. I've found that if you limit
your training while on DNP (I use
a day on, two day off schedule) you
can get these rebound muscle gains.
But it's very easy to overtrain on DNP.
I usually do 3 sets per exercise: 2 sets
of 12 reps (not to failure) and the last set
of 5-6 reps (failure). In all candor, I have
gotten more size this way than when I
used a lot of steroids, and trained almost
every day. When I was released from
prison I weighed 170 lbs.

I have not previously commented
when DNP=poison subject came up,
but I feel that DNP, in doses of 2mg/kg
can be an effective anabolic agent.
I just can't tell all the mechanisms why it
works so well."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In other posts, Duchaine stated that he also used DNP and insulin to successfully gain about 20lbs of muscle. He did not elaborate on this though.

 

[LV 426]

You do realize that Dan has been dead for a year and a half

LV 426

 

[overrx]

most of his info is outdated

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Have to say I totally agree.It's almost as if the cells,depleted of ATP/Creatine,super-compensate when DNP has ran it's course.And dieting with it,I don't lose muscle like I do on a keto/marathon cardio regimen.So there's something to this for sure.

 

[cockdezl]

"You do realize that Dan has been dead for a year and a half"

"LV 426"

I did not know that death negates one's acheivements. I guess I should inform physicists that the Theory of Relativity is useless, since Einstein is dead.

"most of his info is outdated"

Actually, very little of his post-prison information is outdated. Duchaine is one of the few people, in this field, with no formal education yet with outstanding reasoning skills.

Also, Duchaine is one of the few in this field who have the intellectual knowledge coupled with extensive experience.

 

[The Ranger]

Good post Cock, glad to see ya around again, I think this also adds to the reasoning behind DNP's reputed effects on recepter upregulation as well....Just a thought to consider....

Ranger

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Duchaine,remains to this day,my all time favorite guru...Like Dezl stated,he not only possesed incredible knowledge,but first hand experience of everything he touted as well,not just on himself,but thousands of his own disciples.How many leading 'researchers' can make the same claims?

 

[overrx]

"I started on a mildly restricted diet,
with 20 minutes of aerobics 3X a
week"

There is no need to do aerobics on dnp, a complete waste of time, and depleting further glycogen stores

"and 2-3 days a week of 200mg
DNP, and with Adipo-Kinetix 2X
a day. Within 7 days I was down to
204, with a waist of 33". "

so with 3 days of powdered dnp (which might i add is not absorbed as fast) combined with adip and he lost 12 lbs in a week, thats bullshit, i dont care how good your dieting is or what the hell you use, but you cannt lose 12 lbs in a week without losing some muscle(Espicicially considering he only used dnp for 3 days, the most he would have lost would have been 5 lbs w/ good dieting)

"I do
have research showing that DNP
causes an exercise-like stress in the
muscle."

your muscle is not stress, it has no energy to do work

"In all candor, I have
gotten more size this way than when I
used a lot of steroids, and trained almost
every day. "

im sorry but you will not gain much size when coming off a dnp cycle. I would say 2-3 lbs max, you will think you look bigger b/c of glycogen superrcomensation. So he is saying he gains only 1 lb from a steroid cycle?

like i said, outdated info

 

[Andy13]

[BI did not know that death negates one's acheivements. I guess I should inform physicists that the Theory of Relativity is useless, since Einstein is dead.

. [/B]

So I guess Newton's laws are bunk too..

 

[cockdezl]

"There is no need to do aerobics on dnp, a complete waste of time, and depleting further glycogen stores"

Read the post again. He stated that he was only using 200mg a day. This small dose would not increase uncoupling dramatically, so therefore cardio is essential to increase the caloric deficit.

Glycogen stores are always lower during a diet. This is a signal for fat mobilization. You think the body is going to utilize it's fat stores if muscle and liver glycogen are full.

"so with 3 days of powdered dnp (which might i add is not absorbed as fast) combined with adip and he lost 12 lbs in a week, thats bullshit, i dont care how good your dieting is or what the hell you use, but you cannt lose 12 lbs in a week without losing some muscle(Espicicially considering he only used dnp for 3 days, the most he would have lost would have been 5 lbs w/ good dieting)"

If you reread it, he never stated that this was purely fat. Water loss always accompanies a good diet. The exact weight loss Duchaine claimed was not the purpose for this post. The purpose was to show real world experiences from the individual who brought this compound back into use.

"your muscle is not stress, it has no energy to do work "

Horseshit. Come back when you understand the pharmacology of uncouplers and what is really happening with DNP use. A cell with no energy is a dead cell.

"like i said, outdated info"

Yeah, yeah. We all eagerly await your next nugget of wisdom.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

LOL!

 

[overrx]

i need to change my handle to obikwan ....i stand by my answers, regardless of the fact that i didnt use scientific terminolgy to explain what exactly is going on...and btw he would be gaining water on the dnp, the search button on andy's threads should explain why dnp decreases in effectiveness after muscle glycogen is depleted will explain that statement, im too laz to find it myself.
however none of this matters ...why you ask?
because you, nor me, nor even dan duchaine(as he even states) really knows what the hell is going on....its all theories, and with a drug that effects so many variables in the body i doubt anyone here has done enough medical tests to prove anything

 

[SwitchedOn]

???????

Ok let's see here overrx, since you're too lazy to remember what you wrote in a topic you started I'll go ahead and jog your memory:

"1) Despite the dosage....average weight loss is 1lb / day
moral: why bother going through the harsher sides, stick with 200
2) If average weightloss is 1lb / day despite dosage (assuming bloodlevels are >200 mg dnp) then there is absolutelty no reason for extended cycles. You can start on a thurs night, end on sat, and hit the gym with full intensity on monday...while losing 3 lbs of fat over the weekend
3) shorter cycles such as these will obviously result in less sides, and better weight loss, also less water retention is likely, and you can still gain muscle and lose fat while on a cycle (the goal that everyone has been looking for)
4) glycogen stores will not be completly depleted, supplement with creatine on sunday/monday and your intenstiy should be back to normal"

Now, we have you saying this:

"so with 3 days of powdered dnp (which might i add is not absorbed as fast) combined with adip and he lost 12 lbs in a week, thats bullshit, i dont care how good your dieting is or what the hell you use, but you cannt lose 12 lbs in a week without losing some muscle(Espicicially considering he only used dnp for 3 days, the most he would have lost would have been 5 lbs w/ good dieting)"

Explain this to me cause I just don't understand it. First you say 3lbs(of fat mind you) in TWO DAYS, then you say 12lbs(could be lean and fat mass) in a week is bullshit? Doesn't make sense. Besides that your first assumption is ridiculous. I take 400mg/day for a week and have NEVER seen an average loss of 1lb/day, of course that doesn't mean it isn't possible. In case you don't realize it DNP dosage is weight dependant. 200mg/day hardly causes me to break a sweat.

Assumption #2: Seems like you're saying here that glycogen stores can be completely maintained while on DNP, since you can "hit the gym with full intensity on monday" after doing a whole 2 day cycle. Sorry, I'm pretty sure glycogen stores are fairly taxed despite being on a long or short cycle.

Assumption #3: "you can still gain muscle and lose fat while on a cycle (the goal that everyone has been looking for)"

I hope you weren't serious when you wrote this.

"shorter cycles such as these will obviously result in less sides, and better weight loss, also less water retention is likely"

Better weight loss??? Here's where I start screaming PROVE IT!

Assumption #4: "glycogen stores will not be completly depleted, supplement with creatine on sunday/monday and your intenstiy should be back to normal"

Ok, glycogen stores may not be completely depleted but what makes you automatically think creatine supplementation will solve the problem of intensity? BTW weren't you the one who theorized that the anabolic rebound while coming off DNP is due to a bio-feedback loop that will cause more creatine to be produced by the body? If you believe this to be possible then why would you need to supp with creatine? Just take methionone like you suggested and one should be fine. Anyhoo Dan Duchaine still is the man. I'd like to see some more pearls of wisdom from ya bro.

SwitchedOn

 

[overrx]

why do i bother....

**Explain this to me cause I just don't understand it. First you say 3lbs(of fat mind you) in TWO DAYS, then you say 12lbs(could be lean and fat mass) in a week is bullshit? Doesn't make sense. Besides that your first assumption is ridiculous. I take 400mg/day for a week and have NEVER seen an average loss of 1lb/day, of course that doesn't mean it isn't possible. In case you don't realize it DNP dosage is weight dependant. 200mg/day hardly causes me to break a sweat. **

Dan said he took 3 dosages of 200 mg powdered in 3 days w/ adipo for 7 days. Why do I say losing 12 lbs of ONLY fat is bullshit. Well because the most he could lose with dnp is 4 lbs, plus an extra 1lb with adipo. Past this its lbm that he's losing. While some of the wait could be water, he will also be retaining some water from the dnp, so this is highly unlikely. HE DID NOT SAY HE TOOK 7 DOSES, READ THE POST

**Assumption #2: Seems like you're saying here that glycogen stores can be completely maintained while on DNP, since you can "hit the gym with full intensity on monday" after doing a whole 2 day cycle. Sorry, I'm pretty sure glycogen stores are fairly taxed despite being on a long or short cycle. **

When did i say this...In fact i implied the opposite, I said work your best bodypart on monday b/c you will not have the best of intensity. As a general rule, time on dnp = time off weights, which means by tues, if you are on AAS (such as tren) you will have a fairly decent intenstiy (Enough to build muscle). Will this intensity be the same as if u had never done dnp in the first place, obviously not, but no one claimed that.

**Assumption #3: "you can still gain muscle and lose fat while on a cycle (the goal that everyone has been looking for)"

I hope you weren't serious when you wrote this.
**

I hope you werent serious when you wrote this either. Just because you havent tried it doesnt mean it doesnt work. I'm not saying it does or doesnt, as I outlined, my theory was based on assumption and anecdotal evidence, as well as personal experience. However, just because you dont think its possible doesnt mean it isnt einstein.

**"shorter cycles such as these will obviously result in less sides, and better weight loss, also less water retention is likely"

Better weight loss??? Here's where I start screaming PROVE IT!
**

i borrowed Andy's idea on this and totally agree with him. You want me to prove it, well why dont you prove that longer cycles are better. Oh wait obviosly you cant because you dont have enough money to run valid medical tests. Everyone has there own theories, some work for some, others work for others, no one is saying that everyone can use the method i implied and have it work for them. But this is obvious for a genius like yourself.
And what proof do you have for your own theories? Various user expereicnes, web page info...hrm doesnt sound like its any different from my evidence.

**
Assumption #4: "glycogen stores will not be completly depleted, supplement with creatine on sunday/monday and your intenstiy should be back to normal"
Ok, glycogen stores may not be completely depleted but what makes you automatically think creatine supplementation will solve the problem of intensity? BTW weren't you the one who theorized that the anabolic rebound while coming off DNP is due to a bio-feedback loop that will cause more creatine to be produced by the body? If you believe this to be possible then why would you need to supp with creatine? Just take methionone like you suggested and one should be fine. Anyhoo Dan Duchaine still is the man. I'd like to see some more pearls of wisdom from ya bro.
**

Did i say creatine will solve the intensity problem I said it would help. My reasoning for this? Creatine will be depleted. Any addition of it im sure will at leastr be slightly helpful, thats just logic. I didnt theorize anything about dnp rebound was due to a biofeedback loop, i asked how creatine was regulated to see if it was a possible solution....its called speculation. Did I ever say this is why anabolic rebound effect occurs, I think not, i just wanted some background info.

I didnt say anything bad about Dan Duchaine. His info is good, but I think some of his aspects on dnp need to be revised. It not like his word is end all be all, a while ago people thought the diamond patter was the way to go, it was obviously ruled out.

I have my theories while others have theyrs. All I ask is to keep your mind open. I never expect anyone to follow what I say word for word, but to read it and take what they feel is valuable and apply it to themselves. If you dont agree with what I have to say thats fine, but give evidence and provide better suggestions. I'm not hear to argue about who has better ideas, I just try to help people with the small amount of knowledge I possess. From what everyone has said, your goal is to prove me wrong. You cant prove me wrong cause i doubt anyone on this board has any factual evidence on anything concerning dnp. Only shit that has been passed down as anecdotal evidence. So instead of bashing my posts why dont you recommend what you think is effective so people can combine what they think is effective from your experience and mine.
my 2 cents