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Does drinking alcohol adversely affect your strength or ability to build muscle?
- Thread starter |D_J^B_J|
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Redshoteye
New member
Yes
Redshoteye
New member
The fact that alcohol provides no nutritional value and that you are getting it from other sources isn't the issue. Since you don't believe me read below. It may be worth your time...
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4907897#post4907897
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4907897#post4907897
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BOOEY
Banned
Yeah, it definitely will have an effect on your body, but I look at it this way: If I'm drinking, there's no way in hell I'll be productive the next day. Meaning, I'll probably sleep-in, miss a few meals, be too lazy to workout, and if I somehow do manage to get my ass in the gym it will probably be a shitty workout. If I do drink, I make sure before that the next day is an off day, or just a cardio day.
And for me, there is no moderation. If I'm going to drink, I'm going to DRINK. Never could have only a few drinks and call it a night.
And for me, there is no moderation. If I'm going to drink, I'm going to DRINK. Never could have only a few drinks and call it a night.
psychedout
New member
It depends what you consider moderation. I probably have one night every 2 months where I drink 10-12 drinks; not one drink other than that though. This is definetly not moderation and working out the next day is not an option. I don't really see the point in having a few drinks (moderation) -- I don't enjoy the taste of booze that much. It's either get hammered, or go home.
royale13ii
New member
I haven't drank in 6 months because I'm over in Iraq, and my workouts have A LOT better results rather then when I was stateside annihilating my liver every weekend.
There's also nothing to do in my free time other than lifting, but yeah, alcohol undermines your progress in the gym.
There's also nothing to do in my free time other than lifting, but yeah, alcohol undermines your progress in the gym.
I drink a drink about every day. A drink or two. Wine often with lunch, a beer with dinner. EVERYONE here drinks...EVERYONE.
Drinking can have great benefits. My life sucks at time because of the time, effort, and mental and physical stress I put into my training. Being able to go out, have a good time, laugh a lot, and have a few beers or several glasses of wine...helps me and most people A LOT!!!
B True
Drinking can have great benefits. My life sucks at time because of the time, effort, and mental and physical stress I put into my training. Being able to go out, have a good time, laugh a lot, and have a few beers or several glasses of wine...helps me and most people A LOT!!!
B True
Alcohol is no good for weight training. Getting smashed really screws up your hormone profile. It downs all the good ones (test, etc) and ups all the bad ones (cortisol). That's why it's harder to get it up when you're drunk. If you find articles about how to crash a hormone test on purpose, all of them say to drink beforehand.
of course, I still do get drunk. But I'm not trying to gain mass either
of course, I still do get drunk. But I'm not trying to gain mass either
Redshoteye
New member
Amen that if anyone deserves a brew it's all of us that train ourselves and manage our health. And yes drinking can alleviate some of our everyday stresses and enable some ugly ducklings a lay every now and then... I'm in college myself and certainly don't mind a jack and coke or mich light with my boys. But I'm gonna switch gears a bit....
The truth of the matter is, to say "everyone" drinks here could be insulting to alot of people that don't dare touch it and value BB at a different level. Looking at it technically, not socially, alcohol is completely counterproductive.
BTrue I know you say you only have one or 2, but in this sport it's the little things that add up, right? Try 2 weeks w/o drinking and tell me how you feel and your results in the gym. You may look and feel in great shape, but IMO you may be coming up short on your full potential. I can tell you from personal experience... I used to go clubbing and drink almost every day and I didnt look bad at all, but I decided to give myself a break from the partying. Result? More explosive in the gym, increased size and strength at a noticably faster pace while off.
I'm not trying to be a little twat, just kind of presenting the facts that alot of us don't want to hear. Can't really argue with science.
Good things,
Cata1yst
The truth of the matter is, to say "everyone" drinks here could be insulting to alot of people that don't dare touch it and value BB at a different level. Looking at it technically, not socially, alcohol is completely counterproductive.
BTrue I know you say you only have one or 2, but in this sport it's the little things that add up, right? Try 2 weeks w/o drinking and tell me how you feel and your results in the gym. You may look and feel in great shape, but IMO you may be coming up short on your full potential. I can tell you from personal experience... I used to go clubbing and drink almost every day and I didnt look bad at all, but I decided to give myself a break from the partying. Result? More explosive in the gym, increased size and strength at a noticably faster pace while off.
I'm not trying to be a little twat, just kind of presenting the facts that alot of us don't want to hear. Can't really argue with science.
Good things,
Cata1yst
Tom Treutlein
New member
It depends on how you look at it. If your life is so stressful that a drink or two helps uplift some of that stress, then it can be a good thing. However, if you drink for no reason other than it being a social act, then it's not going to benefit you any. Stress is a big hindrance, but if stress isn't present, then there's little excuse for alcohol.
Of course, that's assuming someone wants to be completely anal about it. If it helps you enjoy life then you shouldn't worry about drinking in 'moderation' every once in awhile. By moderation, I mean getting a little tipsy, enough to let you lighten up at a social event.
Of course, that's assuming someone wants to be completely anal about it. If it helps you enjoy life then you shouldn't worry about drinking in 'moderation' every once in awhile. By moderation, I mean getting a little tipsy, enough to let you lighten up at a social event.
BOOEY
Banned
Cata1yst said:
I don't necessarily think a drink or two everyday would hurt someone's gains, especially if that's how they were brought up. Take Franco and Arnold. Those bastards drank a glass of wine or beer with their dinners and they looked great. Personally, (like I said above), I could never just drink one or two. I don't like the taste of alcohol, so if I'm drinking, I'm getting tanked. So because of that, I try not to drink much anymore.
Redshoteye
New member
Yeah Arnold was a beast, but at the same time he did a lot of crazy shit... Imagine how much better his physique would be if he didn't go to the gym twice per day, which he sometimes did. If he didn't literally shred up his muscles on a daily basis he could've been an even bigger monster.
Tom Treutlein
New member
Depending on how training loads were managed, you could benefit from training twice in a given day, especially with the use of gear. I believe Bulgarian lifters often train two to three times per day. I can't recall the name of the method which called for lifting thrice a day, but it was a routine used to specialize in certain exercises. The example I saw on a website was using pullups.
Anyway, a drink or two a day shouldn't do anything to you, unless you're a lightweight. In fact, Anthrax posted a study awhile back that talked about a glass of wine (common knowledge), and even a beer a day being healthy for you, due to the barley contained in certain brews during a distilling process.
Something along those lines, anyway.
Anyway, a drink or two a day shouldn't do anything to you, unless you're a lightweight. In fact, Anthrax posted a study awhile back that talked about a glass of wine (common knowledge), and even a beer a day being healthy for you, due to the barley contained in certain brews during a distilling process.
Something along those lines, anyway.
Redshoteye
New member
What I know is that a muscle will not grow until it's recovered. The muscle won't begin to recover until the nervous system is recovered... Now this takes about 24 hours for the system to recover from a workout. Only then will the muscle begin to recover and grow. So, essentially you shouldn't train 2 days in a row, let alone twice a day. Even if you train different bodyparts, you still use the same nervous system. You train 2 days in a row, your nervous system recovers, but by the time the muscles begin to, you train again, so the body has to concentrate again on recovering the nervous system.
Yes, steroids increase your recovery ability, but they also make you stronger at a quicker rate. The extra strength will give you the ability to train harder/tear more muscle tissue, so you will need the extra recovery that the steroids will give you.
Yes, steroids increase your recovery ability, but they also make you stronger at a quicker rate. The extra strength will give you the ability to train harder/tear more muscle tissue, so you will need the extra recovery that the steroids will give you.
Cata1yst said:
Cata1yst,
Yes, but with all respect, I think it's reaching to expect an accumulable effect from one beer or glass of wine/day. Regardless of how long such a consumption level was sustained (weeks, even months), I've never seen evidence to suggest but one daily drink could measurably impact someone's output in the gym. Moreover, I am positive I have never, ever seen such evidence based on subjects with B-Fold's lean body mass
Oh, no--you're not being a twat! A cautionary voice wasn't at all out of place here.
Nonetheless, it sounds to me as if you're talking about something completely different than what B-Fold said. He said a drink, perhaps two a day, and only occasionally any more. You're talking about "clubbing" and "partying" which, in my admittedly limited experience, means taking in a lot more than a simple glass of wine or single brew in a day.
Best,
Sean
Tom Treutlein
New member
Sorry, but your muscles will be growing and repairing at almost all points of the day. You don't sit there while your CNS is drained, with your muscles refusing to recover.
sigweed
New member
in moderation i believe (all from a personal/non-medical standpoint) drinking isn't too bad. I'm still in university and some of the most jacked guys i see in the gym are the same guys hitting the bars and the coke and whatever 5 nights a week.
also on my rugby team.. lots of euro and aussie guys who will play a match at noon on basically an empty stomach, go get loaded after the game, party all night... and fuck me if these aren't some of the strongest fittest guys I know. They're certainly not bodybuilders, but you'd be crazy to say they're not in amazing shape
also on my rugby team.. lots of euro and aussie guys who will play a match at noon on basically an empty stomach, go get loaded after the game, party all night... and fuck me if these aren't some of the strongest fittest guys I know. They're certainly not bodybuilders, but you'd be crazy to say they're not in amazing shape
Cata1yst said:
When I say everyone here drinks...I am talking about the country that I live in and the island that I live on. I live on the island of Cyprus...the Greek 1/2. I'm yet to meet a single person here who does not drink.
I've been well over 2 weeks without drinking. I think I had A beer when I was 18, then nothing else really till I was about 22 or so. I move here to Cyprus and it is part of the culture. I never EVER see anyone getting drunk though...ever.Cata1yst said:
My life revolves around cooking my meals, working, training, stretching, planning, competing, my wife, etc... The ability to go out every once in a while and have a few beers, margarita, wine, etc...is priceless to take my mind off those everyday stresses.
I don't "party" though...lol. This is the slow life here
It is Summer and the evenings revolve around the Sea and coming home to sit on the Veranda at night, cooking souvlaki, and drinking a beer with my wife or friends. RECOUPERATIONCata1yst said:
Of course you have a point...a big one. I have to unwind sometimes though. My body hurts, aches, and my mind gets really stressed about the things that I have to do in the gym.
Ohh...and keep in mind that it takes A LOT more than a few beers for me to feel anything.
B True
Redshoteye
New member
Tom Treutlein said:
Is it that implausible? ...I'll keep it simple. Lets say hypothetically you were to sprain your hand, would your hand heal faster playing basketball the next day, or letting it rest for another day and playing in 2 days? Will you be more productive on the first or second day?
Redshoteye
New member
b fold the truth said:When I say everyone here drinks...I am talking about the country that I live in and the island that I live on. I live on the island of Cyprus...the Greek 1/2. I'm yet to meet a single person here who does not drink.
I've been well over 2 weeks without drinking. I think I had A beer when I was 18, then nothing else really till I was about 22 or so. I move here to Cyprus and it is part of the culture. I never EVER see anyone getting drunk though...ever.
My life revolves around cooking my meals, working, training, stretching, planning, competing, my wife, etc... The ability to go out every once in a while and have a few beers, margarita, wine, etc...is priceless to take my mind off those everyday stresses.
I don't "party" though...lol. This is the slow life here
Of course you have a point...a big one. I have to unwind sometimes though. My body hurts, aches, and my mind gets really stressed about the things that I have to do in the gym.
Ohh...and keep in mind that it takes A LOT more than a few beers for me to feel anything.
B True
How could you get stressed out by the ocean in Cyprus?
Damn Greeks!
Cata1yst said:How could you get stressed out by the ocean in Cyprus?
Damn Greeks!
The Ocean is part of the relaxation process
B True
Tom Treutlein
New member
Cata1yst said:
The scenario you're bringing up now is different from the other. Now you're admitting (whether you realize it or not) that the body can and will heal itself, even during physical activity. The muscle recovers along with the nervous system. They don't sit and wait on one another. The body isn't so fragile.
As for the basketball situation, obviously one who doesn't risk further injury to the hand would heal more qucikly, but how does that even relate? I never said anything about what's optimal. I said simple, that the muscle will recover independent of the CNS, and will do so even during physical activity.
Redshoteye
New member
Tom Treutlein said:
Theres no denying that your CNS will become shocked and go into a 'full body' overtrained state if you lift excessively ed or twice a day like you stated. This being, how can muscle recover itself in that situation? It cant.
I'm guessing we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Tom Treutlein
New member
I never said anything about lifting excessively every day. Those assisted by anabolics can get away with training twice a day and then some. It's done with a lot of Eastern Bloc countries, I believe. They have a much higher work ethic than most of us do.
Tom Treutlein
New member
The belief going around now is that hypertrophy is most benefitted from a higher frequency of stimulation. If you were to do five sets of an exercise in a given day, distributing the load into three sessions would make it easier to handle, while causing the same amount of microtrauma. In the case of three sessions a day (let's say you had a log to press outside in order to get in some OHP three times a day, right at home) - you could do two sets every seven or so hours (in the AM, middle of the day, and a little before bed) - thus letting you get in six sets, causing more microtrauma than, obviously, five sets.
A lot of it sounds good in theory, but I doubt it'll make a huge difference. The only point I was trying to make was that people have trained with such high frequencies, and benefitted from it. Obviously, taking a normal hour long training session and repeating it with the same loads and all, either that same day or the next, could be hazardous for those who aren't enhanced.
A lot of it sounds good in theory, but I doubt it'll make a huge difference. The only point I was trying to make was that people have trained with such high frequencies, and benefitted from it. Obviously, taking a normal hour long training session and repeating it with the same loads and all, either that same day or the next, could be hazardous for those who aren't enhanced.
Redshoteye
New member
Tom Treutlein said:
IMO thats excessive training. Yes the use of steroids can help but what about the most of the country thats clean.
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Tom Treutlein
New member
Off topic, cata1yst, what does your icon say? I see a pyramid with words written on the three visible surfaces.
Redshoteye
New member
Tom Treutlein said:
If it works for some people then amen... successful or not it's just leaves me to wonder if their at their full potential with this method of excerise.
Cheers.
BOOEY
Banned
Cata1yst said:
Yeah to you it may be, but what about those genetic freaks that can handle such a load. Everything is individual, to say it is not is ridiculous. For some, training back to back days is excessive, while for others its not a problem. Each person has to figure how much time they need to recover and work from there. They way you're presenting it, sounds like you're saying we should follow Mike Mentzer's theories and hit each bodypart once every fourteen days.
sandman_007
New member
i dunno- arnold insists that his extreme volume helped himCata1yst said:
i read in flex how arnold did 30 sets for shoulders each workout and he was training them for like 3x per week, and i was like wtf! he claims that is what GOT him big although i know if i even tried to do that i would never make gains
Redshoteye
New member
BOOEY said:
To ridicule my "opinionated" response that training 2-3 times per day is simply excessive is ridiculous in itself...
Believe it or not, sometimes you can't always 'tell' if your fully recovered... so even if you feel okay and are making gains training daily (which some people like, fine!) you still may not be at your full potential if you simply allowed 24hrs for your muscles to fully recover and begin growth. Everyone has the same CNS so that cant be argued.
And I'm confused why you think my response leads you to believe I follow Mike Mentzers theories...
Tom Treutlein
New member
Not everyone has the same CNS. The basic fundamentals of each person's nervous system may be the same, but explain to me then, why people have such varying tolerances? Not every person has the same nervous system. Not conditioned the same, anyway.
I agree on the point that you can not always tell if you're fully recovered. The thing is, full recovery is rare. People almost never fully recover. Instead, you let the fatigue accumulate until you need to "deload" (not even getting this from the recent 5x5 plague) in order to accomodate more volume again.
I agree on the point that you can not always tell if you're fully recovered. The thing is, full recovery is rare. People almost never fully recover. Instead, you let the fatigue accumulate until you need to "deload" (not even getting this from the recent 5x5 plague) in order to accomodate more volume again.
I can't explain the strength of the Eastern Bloc Europeans. Strength and endurance out of this world.
One big thing is this...if they compete in a sport...that IS what they do. Most of the friends that I have from there don't really have any sort of job at all. A few of them will work as bouncers a night or two a week at a pub or something...but that is it. THEY TRAIN.
Anabolics are CHEAP there. You really can't imagine this. I just got back from Serbia and the other guys were talking about how you could just walk into a pharmacy (any and every one) and buy sustanon 250 amps non prescription for less than 60 cents each. 250mg of test was less than 40 cents each.
Most of the people that I know from there do several things:
1) Eat A LOT
2) Rest A LOT
3) Train 3-5x a week, everything depending on how they feel
4) Train hard and heavy
5) Use AAS
B True
One big thing is this...if they compete in a sport...that IS what they do. Most of the friends that I have from there don't really have any sort of job at all. A few of them will work as bouncers a night or two a week at a pub or something...but that is it. THEY TRAIN.
Anabolics are CHEAP there. You really can't imagine this. I just got back from Serbia and the other guys were talking about how you could just walk into a pharmacy (any and every one) and buy sustanon 250 amps non prescription for less than 60 cents each. 250mg of test was less than 40 cents each.
Most of the people that I know from there do several things:
1) Eat A LOT
2) Rest A LOT
3) Train 3-5x a week, everything depending on how they feel
4) Train hard and heavy
5) Use AAS
B True
Redshoteye
New member
Tom Treutlein said:
Right, I mean't that statement from an anatomical standpoint.... yes some people have varying tolerances of their CNS, but the basic mechanisms that drive it are universal... basically to overtrain anyones CNS is to affect muscle repair.
BOOEY
Banned
Cata1yst said:
Relax bro, no one is ridiculing you. You're thinking about this too much, it's not as complicated as you make it seem. Eat, Train, Sleep, Grow -> that's all one should be concerned with. not "Oh, you worked out yesterday and the day before, maybe I shouldn't work out today because my CNS is not recovered." Yeah, if you start seeing diminishing returns, you need to change things, perhaps get more rest or eat more, etc. But to issue a blanket statement as everyone needs the same amount of time off in order to see optimal results is exactly what Mentzer was promoting, which is why I made the analogy.
columbia58
New member
|D_J^B_J| said:
Alcohol in moderation..which is the problem...is not so bad. But, any alcohol while cycling is a problem...your liver will not appreciate the extra stress. You should also stay from tylenol...
Redshoteye
New member
BOOEY said:
No worries I'm chillaxin...
Reason I'm strongly looking into this is for one reason... Believe it or not I've been training 6x times per week for the past 2 years. Just recently its as if my body said fuck you I need a rest. Even after a 1.5 week layoff I'm drained going e/d and just don't feel as explosive as I used to when I first started training that way.
I didn't contradict myself. Varying CNS tolerances aside, I think it generally takes a person 24hrs to recover (compare to Mentzer w/e). I'm sure other people can tolerate different levels of overtraining but by simply resting that one day it gives everyone the opportunity to grow MORE.
Redshoteye
New member
Tom Treutlein said:
Actually I need to figure that out myself.... ha, I need a new icon.
beerdrinker
New member
Tom Treutlein
New member
Wow, that's so random that you found that. Awesome!
Redshoteye
New member
WTF!
Why the hell am I plugging an open group of women artists and scientists....
Why the hell am I plugging an open group of women artists and scientists....
beerdrinker
New member
LOL. I increased the size of the pic and could barely make out science and art so I googled for 'catalyst science art' I didn't just know it, honest! 
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