Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I was thinking i was going up very fast on bench and such until i started working out my legs, so i started thinking would not working legs help ur upper body get stronger fast because u would not be using all that extra energy to replenish ur legs and all the protein and carbs would not be being used up and everything else i just cant explain exactly what im talking about. So can someone fill me in on this and tell me if im totally wrong or if im right?
do u have to build legs?
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Anthrax Invasion
Guest
Uhm, actually the studies oppose the idea that training legs leads to greater test levels. The GH response is nominal - insignificant.
Weight gain in the legs, yes.
Weight gain in the legs, yes.
ghettostudmuffin
New member
How you gonna build a big house on a piss-poor foundation?
musketeer
New member
"Do u have to build legs?"
No, you can look like an idiot if you like!
Seriously though, they are so much more important for actual functional strength than the upper body. And chicks really dig my 26" separated quads. It's like WTF if I flashed my 18 inch arms in the club and had little 17 inch-pecker-legs when I got them into bed....
No, you can look like an idiot if you like!
Seriously though, they are so much more important for actual functional strength than the upper body. And chicks really dig my 26" separated quads. It's like WTF if I flashed my 18 inch arms in the club and had little 17 inch-pecker-legs when I got them into bed....
coldblue1955
New member
the answer is yes. Why build everything else? It doesn't make sense.
anotherbutters
New member
Could you ever imagine someone asking whether they have to work arms or chest? lol
No i couldent anotherbutters and also i wasent saying i dident want to train legs however i thought that if i was right i could train upper for about 4 months very hard and maybe do some legs just not to much to feel like i cant walk that way my body would not have to revive them so much leading to maybe greater upperbody strength in that 4 months i heard arnold was very big upper body but had very small legs when he first came to america and then got them bigger
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Anthrax Invasion
Guest
Train the body as a system. That's what I would do. I see where you're coming from, though. The lack of energy utilized on the legs could lead to greater growth in the upper body. Honestly, the difference won't be anything short of nominal. You'll be better served by utilizing squats and deadlifts, despite the drain they cause on the system.
anotherbutters
New member
Holy cow, this guy wants to stop his 5x5 because his upper body is growing but his legs are falling behind! Hey tay, have you created an alter, just to prove me wrong? j/k 
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=434537
I was only joking when I posted my other comment yesterday. A lot of people neglect legs because they're not as visible or impressive as a big upper body in regular day to day life and they take it out of you when you train them hard.
As a better response to your question, how quickly did your upper body strength gains slow down when you started working legs? Were you setting PRs every week on bench/overhead press/whatever, then suddenly you plateaued? Or was it more of a gradual slowdown? It could be that you've naturally reached a point where you've made a decent amount of gains on upper body strength and you were reaching a plateau anyway.
Also, you can have a good leg workout and still be able to walk afterwards. It sounds like you might have been going at it like a madman. Were you training to failure? That would be especially taxing on the CNS. If you suddenly added a lot of training to legs, you're going to have to accommodate that extra load somehow. How much you were doing before on the upper body movements?
Easiest thing is probably to post up your routine before/after adding legs.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=434537
I was only joking when I posted my other comment yesterday. A lot of people neglect legs because they're not as visible or impressive as a big upper body in regular day to day life and they take it out of you when you train them hard.
As a better response to your question, how quickly did your upper body strength gains slow down when you started working legs? Were you setting PRs every week on bench/overhead press/whatever, then suddenly you plateaued? Or was it more of a gradual slowdown? It could be that you've naturally reached a point where you've made a decent amount of gains on upper body strength and you were reaching a plateau anyway.
Also, you can have a good leg workout and still be able to walk afterwards. It sounds like you might have been going at it like a madman. Were you training to failure? That would be especially taxing on the CNS. If you suddenly added a lot of training to legs, you're going to have to accommodate that extra load somehow. How much you were doing before on the upper body movements?
Easiest thing is probably to post up your routine before/after adding legs.
blut wump
New member
Funny you should mention that; I can go for weeks with no direct arm work. Months have passed with no direct biceps work for me.anotherbutters said:
Regarding legs, I don't think extra leg work is necessary so long as you have squats in your routine. Ok, joking aside, why would anyone drop squats if they weren't injured? I wouldn't want a larger torso if it meant going without squats to get it.
ok anotherbutters heres what i did for upper body and everyone in here would say this is really stupid but think what u will and i am moving to 5 x 5 tomorrow! Mon.; wed.; & Frid. i did all biceps, triceps, and back and i did Bicep curl, curls w/dumbbells, tricep pull w/rope, close grip bp, rigid lat pull, shoulder press, curls w/bar, curls w/pulley, skull crushers, tricep pull w/bar, seated row, & front db raise. I did each exercise weight x 3 x 6 or 8. On tue.; thu.; sat.; i did upper body and forearms BP, Multi chest, db hammer curls, cable reverse curls, bp w/dumbbells, Decline BP and i finished it off with about 50 pushups 3 sets if i could get them. I was trying to workout legs on chest days but never got around to it and about 4 weeks ago i did and as of that week i stopped going up 10 - 15 lbs. a week to about 4 lbs. a week. Now i know this sounds crazy to most people but i have been doing almost this exact same workout in the order of exercise i listed for about 9 weeks now with 1 week off instead of deloading i just take a whole week off. I was recovering like a mad man until i started up hitting legs hard (squat, leg extension, calf lift, calf press, leg press, seated row) plus i already road the bike 1 hour 4 days a week and ran 30 min on top of that oh yeah i also work out abs 1 hour in the morning with cardio. I know its long but thats pretty much it i could type out everything my whole log for the past i think 15 weeks if need be!
mad_monkey59
New member
Ignore your legs at your peril. Not only will you look unproportional, but performing squats releases growth hormones and increases testosterone. Not only that but squats work your back and abs secondarily.
You cannot afford not to work your legs, you will never achieve full potential, your other lifts will suffer and ultimately by the time you realise your mistake it will take months to correct it.
You cannot afford not to work your legs, you will never achieve full potential, your other lifts will suffer and ultimately by the time you realise your mistake it will take months to correct it.
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
Lots of different information here...I got kind of lost in it really, but you look as though you are trying hard so I took some time.
Your question - "Do you have to build legs?"
I am wondering....Build your legs to what?
You mention increases in benchwork and then a plateau which you attribute (possibly) in part to 'beginning' to or increasing your leg training. So I wonder if you are thinking do I have to build my legs at all if I am really just wanting to have a big bench?
You also were wondering if the reason in the decrease of your bench strength and increase in leg training was due to a lack of adequate, supportive nutrition?
My answers would be as follow:
- There is a function of leg drive in a big bench. There is also core support, lateralis muscles, tricep and shoulder strength (to name a few) that come into play when benching. The big benchers (or bench only guys) I have met do not squat a lot as it torques the shoulders - but they do train legs, just not to squat 1000lbs. When you think about training you have to think about what you want out of it. Do you want a big bench only, do you want symmetry, are you training for strength? These will give you a guideline and help you establish goals.
- If you are increasing your training without increasing or changing your nutrition to a level that will keep your fires burning, this can surely hinder any progress. Also think about hydration too.
- Are you training these large bodyparts with adequate rest in between? Most maximal movements require 48-72hrs in between them if training for strength and power. Again, revisit your goals to establish a plan and get better feedback. Your workout posted looked to provide you with no rest and not many exercises for strength, but more like your preparing for an Ironman or something. Don't get me wrong, if you can do all that more power to you, but there doesn't seem to be much 'strength' in your training. If you want to train for strength you are not going about it in the proper manner.
If you could post up your training goals...maybe weight, height - daily caloric intake, that might help a bit...but knowing what you want to achieve and letting us know will help with more accurate feedback. Take care.
__________________
Mythicwrld
"We deceive ourselves when we fancy that only weakness needs support. Strength needs it far more."
Your question - "Do you have to build legs?"
I am wondering....Build your legs to what?
You mention increases in benchwork and then a plateau which you attribute (possibly) in part to 'beginning' to or increasing your leg training. So I wonder if you are thinking do I have to build my legs at all if I am really just wanting to have a big bench?
You also were wondering if the reason in the decrease of your bench strength and increase in leg training was due to a lack of adequate, supportive nutrition?
My answers would be as follow:
- There is a function of leg drive in a big bench. There is also core support, lateralis muscles, tricep and shoulder strength (to name a few) that come into play when benching. The big benchers (or bench only guys) I have met do not squat a lot as it torques the shoulders - but they do train legs, just not to squat 1000lbs. When you think about training you have to think about what you want out of it. Do you want a big bench only, do you want symmetry, are you training for strength? These will give you a guideline and help you establish goals.
- If you are increasing your training without increasing or changing your nutrition to a level that will keep your fires burning, this can surely hinder any progress. Also think about hydration too.
- Are you training these large bodyparts with adequate rest in between? Most maximal movements require 48-72hrs in between them if training for strength and power. Again, revisit your goals to establish a plan and get better feedback. Your workout posted looked to provide you with no rest and not many exercises for strength, but more like your preparing for an Ironman or something. Don't get me wrong, if you can do all that more power to you, but there doesn't seem to be much 'strength' in your training. If you want to train for strength you are not going about it in the proper manner.
If you could post up your training goals...maybe weight, height - daily caloric intake, that might help a bit...but knowing what you want to achieve and letting us know will help with more accurate feedback. Take care.
__________________
Mythicwrld
"We deceive ourselves when we fancy that only weakness needs support. Strength needs it far more."
anotherbutters
New member
If you're managing to get through that lot and still make gains then I can only assume you've just started working out. Your body will respond well to a high load when you first start out, as it has done, but after maybe the first couple of months, you'll need to slow down and spend more time recovering. As you get stronger, it takes more out of you.
Your training will change over time. What works well for someone new to lifting won't work well 6 months down the line and what they do in 6 months won't work well 2 years down the line.
I suspect the extra leg work is the straw that broke the camel's back - you're already working out 6 days a week, which only an absolute beginner will get away with and only for the first month or two. You're probably at a stage where you need to cut down the workouts a little and spend a bit more time recovering.
Quadsweep's Sister raises a good point - there is very little strength work in your workouts. Meaning compounds exercises that you can move more weight with - squats, bench press, deadlift, bent over rows, overhead press. Those should be the staples of your workouts because they will stimulate a lot more growth than a lot of the exercises you've been doing. Ok, that hasn't been a problem so far because you're new to this, but it will become a problem.
Jumping onto the 5x5 will help because it will get you onto good exercises and will get you down to working out three days a week. To be honest, the single factor 5x5 might even slow you down over the next few weeks. You can probably get away with trying to set PRs quicker than once a week. In the absence of a raw beginners routine in the main 5x5 page, I suggest something like the single factor, but do the Monday workout on Fridays as well, so you try to set PRs on both Monday and Friday. Once you stop getting away with that, drop back to the single factor as it's laid out.
Your training will change over time. What works well for someone new to lifting won't work well 6 months down the line and what they do in 6 months won't work well 2 years down the line.
I suspect the extra leg work is the straw that broke the camel's back - you're already working out 6 days a week, which only an absolute beginner will get away with and only for the first month or two. You're probably at a stage where you need to cut down the workouts a little and spend a bit more time recovering.
Quadsweep's Sister raises a good point - there is very little strength work in your workouts. Meaning compounds exercises that you can move more weight with - squats, bench press, deadlift, bent over rows, overhead press. Those should be the staples of your workouts because they will stimulate a lot more growth than a lot of the exercises you've been doing. Ok, that hasn't been a problem so far because you're new to this, but it will become a problem.
Jumping onto the 5x5 will help because it will get you onto good exercises and will get you down to working out three days a week. To be honest, the single factor 5x5 might even slow you down over the next few weeks. You can probably get away with trying to set PRs quicker than once a week. In the absence of a raw beginners routine in the main 5x5 page, I suggest something like the single factor, but do the Monday workout on Fridays as well, so you try to set PRs on both Monday and Friday. Once you stop getting away with that, drop back to the single factor as it's laid out.
I have made some of my best upper body strength and size gains when I backed off my leg training. The body can only recover so much...
Notice I said that I did not STOP leg training...I just backed off a little. My back off weeks might still be tougher than some's hard weeks though...
B True
Notice I said that I did not STOP leg training...I just backed off a little. My back off weeks might still be tougher than some's hard weeks though...
B True
harbinator
New member
I have a question on legs, I have just begun working out about 6 months ago and Ive always had extremely superior legs to my upper body, first day in the gym I was leg pressing 600lb and bench pressing 100lb 
Anyway, right now I think my legs are TOO big, I need to lose some more fat off them but at the moment they are 27" cold 30" flexed. I have a tough time with pants, even wide leg pants are perfect in the waist but tight in the thighs. Would you recommend I skimp on them until upper body is caught up and I lose some fat off them before really hitting them?
Anyway, right now I think my legs are TOO big, I need to lose some more fat off them but at the moment they are 27" cold 30" flexed. I have a tough time with pants, even wide leg pants are perfect in the waist but tight in the thighs. Would you recommend I skimp on them until upper body is caught up and I lose some fat off them before really hitting them?
A
Anthrax Invasion
Guest
It depends on how self-conscious you are. No one can answer for you. Do you want to wait for your upper body to catch up, or would you rather train the whole body as a system and increase all over at the same time? I would choose the latter. Also, leg pressing 600 lb. isn't impressive. Leg presses suck. Start squatting.
harbinator
New member
Anthrax Invasion said:
I know its not impressive, Im just showing how out of proportion my lower body strength is to my upper body. I can't do squats or deadlifts because of my knee Im getting it looked at those just recently had MRI on it.
harbinator
New member
Anthrax Invasion said:
Also, like I said, I think my legs are too big and already can't find pants that fit in the thighs, Ive lost 70lb since last december and my legs haven't really gotten much smaller just my stomach.
thanks for taking the time everyone for helping me with this question and heres my info im 5'7" 150 lbs. 15" arms BP about 245 and squat about 260 i eat about 2000 calories a day and i know thats not much however i keep it pretty strict mostly eggs, oatmeal, and tuna i eat 6 times a day also but i was trying to get the bf% down and also im kinda low on cash ill be 18 on halloween and live with my mom and she barelly has money to feed us. Anotherbutters i would not say i just started working out i used to work out but i stopped about 5 months ago cuz i got a job pushing baskets (actually strengthening my legs and shoulders) and started back about 15 weeks ago, but before that i was in football and i worked out about 4 days a week and could not get past a 200 lbs. bench and 200 squat and when i started working out again i was at 170 or 180 lbs bench and now im at 245. As for goals i really dont have any just be as big as i can get as fast as i can get there i think im like addicted to working out. People have started roomors at school that i take steroids because of the huge difference in apperence so fast. And its probly almost like i am because i have a feeling i have very high testosterone. Anyways thats about all of it and i hope everything yall have to say will help me grow as big as i can thanks for the comments!!
anotherbutters
New member
If you do try the 5x5, just keep at it. Try to eat a lot more if you can afford it. You're full of test at your age, so you're at the best time of your life for getting big. You just need to eat. Benching 245 at 150lb bodyweight is quite impressive. You're gonna be a monster if you just eat! And don't worry about bodyfat for now, you'll look a lot better with a bit of muscle on you, even if your bf% goes up.
yeah i was thinking i could get rather big to im hoping to be at 300 lbs. on bench by january 1st, but it will be very hard. No im not lactose intolerant however ive heard milk is actually really bad for u. I have read many threads and some stuff out of books on it even if u buy the kind without all the hormones and other things it still must go through pasturization which i heard can actually lead u to osteoporosis even though i dont have to worry about that. If this is true id rather spend my $25 i spend every week on something else. Correct me on the milk thing if i was wrong, but only if u know what ur talking about please. Thanks for all the posts and help!!!
anotherbutters
New member
I think if you look hard enough, everything becomes bad for you. Don't worry about it. I get through at least half a gallon a day and look at me 
yeah i know if u look hard enough everything is bad for u ill prob start drinking milk and i feel bad for ur gf cwc73 well anyways im out gona go start the 5x5 in a few min and i had a good meal like 4 cups of green beans 12 ounces of fried egg plant and a protein drink = like 1000 calories hope it helps the starting workout oh yeah and how long should u rest between sets in the 5x5?
nsashbl01
New member
b fold the truth said:
I have had to back off quad training for the last month or so due to a knee injury. I still do deads, hams, and light leg press and extensions though. I can seriously notice a drop in energy. I really feel more drained lately, not sure if this is why, but I think my body likes the stress of squats.
Regarding leg training in general. I have been doing more core / leg work in the last two and a half years and have totally stopped training abs. Since then, my abs look no worse, and maybe a bit better. I know many guys who don't work legs as hard as their upper body. They have made less gains overall than the guys that kill their legs.
yeah well i definatly notice my whole body today is really sore after the first day of 5x5 however my chest is not nearly as sore as it was when i did my other workout im just hoping everyone is right and legs will lead to a better core strength which will lead to stronger upperbody in the long run
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