Do steroids make others feel crappy too?

[jabelar]

I don't have any mental or moral problems with roiding, so when I mean "feel crappy" I just mean physically. I've tried about 10 different cycles/stacks as well as isolating various roids to try them independently and I simply don't feel physically well when on them.

When I'm off them in my natural state, I feel super-agressive, alert, excellent cardio, super sexual. When on them, I always feel like I'm coming down with a flu (achy joints, light headache), very tired/sleepy (have to take naps just to make it through the day), my cardio takes a dive, my blood pressure and heart rate seem strained, and I actually tire out faster when doing weights. And my balls ache like hell which gets annoying.

Is it just me, or do other guys put up with this? All I can say is that natrually I'm an animal, working out to point of exhaustion, agressive in sports, sharp in business, hot at sex. On roids I feel like I'm half asleep and out of gas.

I've tried lots of different cycles at novice to intermediate type doses. I've tried increasing the test to keep the agression and sex up. I take anti-estrogens to reduce water retention and other sides. I think I understand the basic theories of the different roids. I took mixes of injectible and oral, etc. Basically followed all the advice I could from places like here, and that I could afford.

I started thinking maybe just one of the things I've was taking was causing it, so I tried taking each separately. They did have different effects of course, but all of them seemed to still generally make me feel rather shitty -- if my joints didn't ache, my balls might, or I might feel alert but my heart rate was accelerated, etc.

I wondered if I was getting shoddy juice, but I've tried from different sources, including ones that are considered quite credible (online Moldova-based type deals). I also went to friends who were successfully juicing and bought from them what was working for them. Same thing. I only ever got "bunk" one time, and it just didn't do anything at all.

Now I do see some of the positive effects -- do gain weight, size, strength. But it doesn't seem worth it to me in return for not feeling like my normal awesome self each day.

So are the rest of you just putting up with these feelings?

Is it just me, maybe I don't respond well to them? Or maybe because I feel so good naturally that it could only go downhill by changing the balance?

Is there any stack that makes people actually feel better? meaning: happy/cheery, alert, endless stamina in the gym, highly aggressive?

It may sound weird/lame, but the most tolerable thing I've found is just taking anti-estrogen (Ralista or Tamoxifen). It keeps me lean and aggressive and sexual. I'm naturally pretty muscular and strong so maybe should just stick with some minor tweak like that ... but I feel like I'm missing something.

But any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[stevesmi]

you said it yourself in your post.. you feel crappy and your bp goes up. that is the reason.

either you are in bad shape physically and are not in physical shape to juice, or your dosages are too high which are giving you too many sides.

 

[cuthroat]

what stevesmi said...stats?

 

[jabelar]

what stevesmi said...stats?

height: 6'3"
weight: 205lbs
cardio: can do 10km at 50mins
non-juiced bench one-rep max: 330lbs
non-juiced dumbbell curl one-rep max: 70lbs
non-juiced pushups: 170 reps continuous shoulder-width hand placement
non-juiced chinups: 10 rep sets
non-juiced blood pressure: normal
juiced blood pressure: high
non-juiced (but lots of caffeine) resting heartrate: 90
juiced resting heartrate: 100
non-juiced exertion heartrate: 140
juiced exertion heartrate: 170
leanness: can see most of my ribs, hip flexors, can see where my abs are but not sixpack, some vascularity on arms and legs.
I take recreational boxing classes, also aerobics, and can generally keep up at intermediate levels.
general health: have everything checked out regularly, including full body scans, nuclear imaging of heart, ultrasound of liver and kidneys. Only thing is I occasionally get kidney stones (not painful, just show up on ultrasound). liver function obviously is flagged by the doctor when I'm on orals, but returns to normal when off.

I'm not looking to be pro bodybuilder, or amazing athlete, just wanna be top of my weekend warrior peer group, best looking guy in the office kind of thing.

Since there is so much discussion about sides on these forums, I'm guessing that most people experience some sides. Just depends on what you're willing to tolerate, and some people might react differently. I'm just used to feeling sooo good normally (every day just seems beautiful) that anything less seems like a downer.

Note also that my normal testosterone range is high. And I've always been super aggressive and horny. So maybe other people notice more of a pick-me up if they're coming from an average or low point.

 

[FlexManning]

Might be some other things to consider also. I take a lot of ephedrine and caffeine, and up until a few weeks ago I was taking Cymbalta. That along with AAS sent my blood pressure through the roof. I quit taking the Cymbalta and my blood pressure returned to near normal despite continuing AAS and all the ephedrine and caffeine. At the moment my heart rate is similar to yours. I don't do all the cardio you do, but still, our heartrates are a little high for people that spend 5-10 hours a week working out don't you think?



My physical stats are similar, I'm 6'2 235.

Also, there's kind of an art to using the ancillaries IMO when you're having problems with blood pressure, endurance, things of that nature. I've felt horrible using certain anti-estrogens. Weak and achy and no energy, also a complaint of many people using the drugs for medical reasons. I tend to think that lack of a reasonable amount of estrogen may cause a lot of the complaints of feeling rundown on certain cycles (I feel the low endurance experienced on Tren may be somehow related to this but I'm not qualified to spout scientific theory and I digress).

There's of course the tricky issue of a person's body simply not being able to adjust quickly enough to added bodyweight. It's actually fairly dangerous, but something I feel is fairly effective is a short cycle with no anti-estrogens that causes a shitload of bloat and water weight (lots of test and Anadrol for instance) followed by a short clean out period concentrating on losing bloat, followed 2-4 weeks later by another cycle. This is a version of a theory recommended by a now dead fringe steroid guru and it's aimed at changing the body's "set point". Idea is the body has to quickly adapt to carrying all the extra bloat, then the bloat is lost, yet the ability of your body to handle extra weight remains. (In short.) Therefore when the cycle's resumed it's possible that some muscle is added where bloat was previously added. Anybody who does this needs to monitor their blood pressure daily.

 

[cuthroat]

From your stats you seem to be in relatively good shape; my first guess would have been bunk gear but it seems

as if you ruled that out in your first post. I would have to agree with the cause being one of the things that

stevesmi or flex mentioned. Severe estrogen suppression has made me feel weak and achy even though I was still

physically strong. Some estrogen is important for heart, brain, and joint health. What is your dosing of

anti-E's while on cycle? That and what is your typical cycle dosing? If your body is decently balanced on

cycle you should be feeling great - C

 

[cuthroat]

From your stats you seem to be in relatively good shape; my first guess would have been bunk gear but it seems

as if you ruled that out in your first post. I would have to agree with the cause being one of the things that

stevesmi or flex mentioned. Severe estrogen suppression has made me feel weak and achy even though I was still

physically strong. Some estrogen is important for heart, brain, and joint health. What is your dosing of

anti-E's while on cycle? That and what is your typical cycle dosing? If your body is decently balanced on

cycle you should be feeling great - C

 

[zwhit]

Do you take a lot of orals? Some orals make me feel like that

Test always makes me feel awesome. Tren hasn't even made me feel bad in any way yet so maybe I'm not as prone to sides as some

 

[thecompound]

Tren makes me feel ultra tired just because of the insomnia, but other than that on gear feeling is great, lots o energy, and many other benifits, Most likely the wrong dosage or dirty gear.

 

[jabelar]

Thanks for all the replies.

Severe estrogen suppression has made me feel weak and achy even though I was still physically strong. Some estrogen is important for heart, brain, and joint health. What is your dosing of anti-E's while on cycle?

Raloxifene at 60mg per day

That and what is your typical cycle dosing?

Right now I'm trying this:

Trenbolone E at 250mg every four days
Anavar oral (GP Oxan) at 5 x 10mg per day
Test E at 250mg every three days

I've tried heavier cycles before, and also tried each on their own. I've tried different test esters and also tried deca back in the day when it was easier for me to obtain.

Do you take a lot of orals? Some orals make me feel like that

Yeah, I noticed that Anavar even on its own makes me feel sleepy and less of an animal, even though I do see strength gain.

Test always makes me feel awesome.

Yeah, but my normal state is pretty testosterone-fueled. When I'm not on anything I'm already super-horny and super aggressive. I have to be careful because I'm always looking for fights, and even though I have a CC permit for handguns I never carry because I know I get mad enough to use them. I have a bounce in my step, I love boxing (even when on the losing side of the exchange), feel like I'm god's gift to women (yeah it's only in my head, but just describing how I feel), etc. So there isn't much way to improve on that.

And when I take test my balls ache, which gets annoying.

Anyway, maybe I should try to focus on more testosterone-centric cycles. I know the Anavar on its own isn't my favorite due to tiring me. The tren definitely gives me a flu-like feeling for the a day or so after each injection. And although the anti-estrogens seem to be positive to me on their own, maybe they are interacting in a way to be too suppressive.

I appreciate the thoughtful advice. Keep it coming.