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difference in diets

blaze

New member
ive done the ketogenic diet for a bit and im happy with the results. ive jus been wondernig what the difference is between doing this type of diet and jus doing a plain old diet of jus eating below your amr. i mean either way you should still lose fat since you eat about the same amount of calories in both instances, only in the ketogenic diet you get to enjoy high fattening foods a little more, jus no carbs. Do you lose less muscle on a ketogenic diet or lose more fat? i mean either way you should still be losing fat on either diet, i jus wanna know the main advantage for the ketogenic diet. thanks
 
To keep the answer short, no there shouldn't be much of a difference between total fat loss on a keto diet versus a "normal" diet. Caloric deficit is the most important part but there are also a few other things that should be met. Assuming you meet the basic standards then your weight loss should be the same as the keto diet, the only difference is how your body reacts to a specific diet. Here are a few guidelines that come from Lyle M, as well as a few of my own from experience.

1. Figure out maintenance calories and drop no more than 500 from that number.

2. Eat at least 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight. You can eat more though 1g is enough.

3. Get a minimum of 15-20% of your calories from fat. Now if you plan on eating some bad fats I would suggest more than 15%, if you plan on getting most of your fat from EFAs then 15% is enough.

4. After you figure out your intake from 2 and 3, then fill the rest with carbs until you reach your calorie goal. If you want to eat less carbs then make sure to fill the void with fats, or protein for that matter.

5. None of this matters if you don't perform at least 2-3 days of intense weight training per week to stimulate muscle fibers and convince your body to keep from burning them for fuel.

6. Perform cardio 2-3 times per week to help burn calories, increase insulin sensitivity, boost metabolism, etc...

7. Get some sleep. 8 hours a night is about a minimum and don't worry about not burning fat. Since you're not eating while sleeping you burn the most fat at this time. Also feeling refreshed in the morning will no doubt help your energy levels throughout the rest of the day.

8. Depending on your bodyfat level you should have a refeed/carb up once a week. The leaner you get the more often and longer you should do it. For 12-15% just do a once a week thing, I do mine on Sunday's. The rules for this day is shoot for a bit above maintenance calories and get all your extra cals from carbs. Don't get out of hand, keep fat intake low, protein moderate and carbs high. This will have a positive effect on leptin levels as well as refilling glycogen stores which have no doubt been lowered during a week of dieting. Especially if you go very low in carbs. You can eat "bad" foods on this day so long as you keep them in control and follow the rules. I often go out to mexican dinner, have ice cream and candy and what not. If your glycogen stores are sufficiently low then it is near impossible for carbs to be stored as fat on this day as it will go straight into your muscles. Just don't eat TOO much or you might start to spill over. Also fat intake must be comparitively low or else it will be stored as fat as well.

There are probably other things you should do but most of the rest is up to you. You may believe in low GI vs high GI carbs but I really don't think in the long run you'll notice much difference. High GI carbs might make you drowsy so that could be a reason to stay away from them. You should also get a good amount of leafy green veggies to keep your plumbing clean as well as providing nutrients to your body.

Supplement wise take some multivitamins, maybe an ECA stack if you need to curb appetite and speed your metabolism up a bit, some fish oil caps or flax oil to help with EFA intake, etc... Protein powder is good for getting enough if you can't with whole foods. You certaintly don't need anything else as long as diet and exercise is covered.

So from this you can follow a 40/30/30, 50/25/25, etc... and as long as you follow the guidelines they should all effectively work the same. The difference being which you enjoy most and find the easiest to stick to.

Hope this helped.
 
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I'll keep this short.

No, there should not be much difference between the type of diet you are using. But, since you are already doing the 'Ketonic' diet, then you should stick with it due to the fact that you are getting good results.

As far as muscle loss goes: 'Ketonic' Diets that include a carb-up usually result in less muscle loss when compared to most of the other diets out there.

I will surely agree with Vageta, when saying that, a calorie deficit is required for any kind of diet.
 
Guys, in his book "The anabolic diet" DiPasquale says to keep fat at 30%-40% on carb up days, that doesn't seem very low to me.
 
Anabolic diet is also very outdated in terms of ketogenic diets. He also doesn't call it a ketogenic diet and in fact in an interview he advocates never entering ketosis. It's also tailored for mass gaining, thus the "Anabolic" name, so the extra fat calories won't hurt you on the carb up. You can cut with it of course but if I remember right the only difference between bulking and cutting phases is calorie intake. For optimum fat loss I think that fat should be kept lower on the carb up. You should only eat enough fat to keep your energy levels up on the carb up day while your muscles suck up the carbs in the form of glycogen. If you eat too much fat then you will end up storing some of it as just that.

Hasn't he released a new diet, something called the Metabolic diet that is tailored for weight loss? I'd be curious on his carb up plan for that diet. I'd guess he has more rules dealing with fat intake on a carb up.
 
Vageta, I'm not sure of his Metabolic diet, but I certainly have seen the below (Metabolism Diet):
(has two phases it can be used in, bulking or dieting)

The Metabolism Diet

The following diet is used to determine to get the most out of your metabolism. This diet lets you know when it is the best times to eat fat and how much depending on whether you are going through a bulking mass phase or a cutting dieting phase. Your metabolism is a big determiner of when and how much fat to eat at a time in order to keep from putting on a large degree of fat.

Chart for Determining the Amounts of Fat to Have in your Diet


Meal / Time
Calories
Bulking Phase Fat %
Cutting Phase Fat %
Reasoning

Breakfast, 7 AM
600
30% (20 grams)
25% (17 grams)
The metabolic rate and catabolic activity is at its peak. Fat storage capacity is very low.

Snack, 10 AM
400
25% (11 grams)
20% (9 grams)
The metabolic rate is still on the high end. Fat storage capacity is still low.

Lunch, 1 PM
600
20% (13 grams)
15% (10 grams)
The metabolic rate is beginning to drop off. Fat storage capacity is moderate. Focus on high quality and complex carbs.

Snack, 4 PM
400
30% (13 grams)
25% (11 grams)
The metabolic rate is only moderate. However, you want to maximize FT levels for your workout, and excess fat will be used as fuel during the workout, decreasing storage potential.

Snack, 7 PM
400
15% (7 grams)
10% (4 grams)
This is the time to focus on replacing glycogen stores and moving proteins into muscle cells. Higher fat would slow absorbtion time of these nutrients and compromise recuperation.

Dinner, 8 PM
600
25% (17 grams)
20% (13 grams)
This is the trickiest time. You want to help offset evening catabolism, but this is also a prime fat storage period. Therefore, moderate fat intake is recommended.

TOTALS =
3,000
25% (81 grams)
20% (64 grams)
 
Interesting theories on the diet plan. I haven't really thought much about fat gain in terms of time of day though my fat intake looks a lot like what he has laid out. Is this a Mario DiPasquale diet or someone else's?

It focuses on fat intake though I'd be curious what bodyweight that the laid out plan is set for, how much protein, carbs, etc...
 
You know, this sort of a plan (not exact but very close) was originally written by me. But, it was lacking some important parts that I could not put my finger on (I, in turn, failed to publish it because of the parts I "thought" were missing). So, in time, this version was released in the bodybuilding world. (I can't comment on the origin, because I've had this on file for a while. Although, I am pretty sure it's not by DiPasquale--actually 99.9% sure)

As far as the protein and carbohydrates go. My theory was: to have a 50/50 split of protein/carbs from the calories left. So, for example, if your first meal is 600 cal and 25% is from fat, then you have (600-150=450cal) 450cal left for Protein/Carbs. You, in turn, split the 450cal into two (225 cal for each); you would then have 225 divided by 4=56 g protein / and 56 g carbs.
(I have no idea of the carb/protein split for this version)
NOTE: (200x15=3000) My version was based on a 200lb bodybuilder, but I am not positive on the bodyweight requirement of this specific version.
 
Yes Mr X, but that "Metabolism Diet" is just the opposite of what you said in another post. You said to start high carb, low fat and then switch to moderate the fat and lower carbs a bit.

I think that maybe the differences between DiPasquale's plan, yours, the Metabolic's or some other's will be minimal at the end of the week; what's important is to stick to one.

Anyway, I've reached 4.5% (this is a Tanita reading) with the Anabolic. I started about 4 weeks ago with 8%.

I've got pictures taken on wednesday. I'm going to carb up today. I hope everything goes fine and I don't mess it up. I look really cut (even if, I must say, my face looks bony and quite unhealthy).

But yes, any diet will work more or less if you stick to it. For me, I just can't say the Anabolic one is easy, but the other day was early evening and I'd eaten just over 900k so far. On a higher carbs diet or a high protein diet there was no chance I'd have reached that time without having to eat more. And it does give you the psychological help you can eat lots of foods normally forbidden like butter, red meat, etc. But you also know you can have the carbs back on the weekend.
After these pictures I want to see how it works for bulking up. Even if, I must say, I don't like the idea to get this little fresh fruit and vegetables.
 
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