Deca / Test Cyp PCT

[virtue_ag]

Hey guys, I've been reading a lot of posts with a lot of different opinions on PCT...some say to use 4 different drugs, others say just to use clomid or nolva. I've been gettin confused on the whole PCT thing and why that would be...


Could someone recommend a good PCT for deca / test stack?


Thanks guys, you've all been a great help!

 

[TEX25]

Post up the cycle that you are considering.

 

[BC975]

All will tell you to stay away from the nolva with a deca cycle. Get some AIFM HCG and Clomid.

 

[virtue_ag]

i'll be doing 250mg test cypionate and 200mg deca every four days for 80 days. Will AIFM be sufficient to help prevent gyno during cycle?

 

[Slyder190]

Your best bet would be to run A-dex, Letro, or Aromasin with it. (Sorry Macro). Deca may give you sexual sides, so I'd go with Aromasin or A-dex and opt to skip on the Letro, just in case. You could get Progesterone induced gyno from the Deca however. Winny may counter this, but I don't know myself for sure, but a lot of bros will do this. I'd bump your doses to 500mg and 400mg/week respectively. I'd run HCG the final 3 weeks of your cycle and run Clomid and Nolva afterword for 4 weeks, just what I myself would do really. I'd stop the Deca a week before the Cyp, so they both clear at the same time and you can begin PCT. This would be 2 weeks after your last shot of Cyp.

 

[virtue_ag]

Thanks man,

But why is it that people tell me not to take nolva along with deca?

 

[DiamondCutCows]

Thanks man,

But why is it that people tell me not to take nolva along with deca?

Look up the difference between Estrogen and Progesterone...Deca causes the latter....nolva helps with the first

 

[Mr.X]

Look up the difference between Estrogen and Progesterone...Deca causes the latter....nolva helps with the first

deca can cause both , estrogenic and progesterone sides - low rate of aromatization though.

Deca profile ...

 

[steelmass]

Cabergolin should be included throughout cycle...

 

[mikefear]

You should run AIFM throughout the cycle and for PCT, finish up with low dose hcg, clomid and AIFM.

 

[Mr.X]

Hey guys, I've been reading a lot of posts with a lot of different opinions on PCT...some say to use 4 different drugs, others say just to use clomid or nolva. I've been gettin confused on the whole PCT thing and why that would be...


Could someone recommend a good PCT for deca / test stack?


Thanks guys, you've all been a great help!

repost...

Start your PCT 2 weeks after your last shot.

HCG 500IUs ED for 10 days

week 1-2: .25mgs arimidex ED
week 3-4: .25mgs arimidex EOD
week 1: 200mgs clomid ED
week 2: 100mgs clomid ED + 25mgs nolva ED
week 3: 50mgs clomid ED + 25mgs nolva ED
week 4: 50mgs clomid ED + 12.5mgs nolva ED

There is also aromasin, nolva and HCG for PCT
http://www.isteroids.com/steroids/Aromasin-Nolvadex PCT.html

Try my layout, should work well for you.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

You should run AIFM throughout the cycle and for PCT, finish up with low dose hcg, clomid and AIFM.

agree.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

nolva should be used after nandrolone or progestin cycles, this can actually increase the risk of post cycle gyno.

Clomid is more suitably as it does not upregulate the PgR.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

Clomid is more suitably as it does not upregulate the PgR.

Sure it does.

Acta Histochem. 2000 Aug;102(3):309-21.

Expression of glucosamine trisaccharides on the rat uterine surface is altered by clomiphene citrate. II. Combination with ovarian hormones.

Hosie M, Terry V, Shaw T, Dwarte D, Murphy CR.
Department of Anatomy and Histology, The University of Sydney, NSW, Australia. [email protected]

We used a single administration of clomiphene citrate (CC), a synthetic oestrogen that is prescribed for infertility treatment, in combination with either a single administration of oestradiol 17beta (E2) or progesterone (P4) to assess the combined effects of these hormones on the uterine surface. The aim of these experiments was to investigate how CC in combination with these hormones affected both expression of oligosaccharides on the uterine surface and membrane architecture further elucidating CC's agonistic/antagonistic properties. Ovariectomized sexually mature rats were given combinations of E2 and CC (E2 + CC) or P4 and CC (P4 + CC) or P4 and E2 (P4 + E2) and were killed 24 h later. Uterine tissue was labelled with the lectin Phytolacca americana conjugated with avidin and subsequently labelled with biotinylated ferritin and prepared for transmission electron microscopy. Results of the administration of these hormone combinations indicate that CC, when administered in conjunction with E2, had the ability to downregulate expression of oligosaccharides on the membrane surface caused by E2. When administered with P4, CC had the ability to upregulate the effects of P4 [progesterone]. Thus, when combined with E2, CC has an antagonistic effect but when combined with P4, CC has an agonistic effect.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

no it does not.

what that says is that it, in that tissue, a strong binder but weak agonist of the ER.

your assumption is incorrect.

Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1986 May;112(1):64-70. Links
Dexamethasone inhibits the effects of oestrogen on the pituitary gland in rats.Terakawa N, Shimizu I, Aono T, Tanizawa O, Matsumoto K.
The administration of glucocorticoids has been shown to be effective for the induction of ovulation in patients with anovulation. In the present study, we investigated the effects of a glucocorticoid on oestrogen-induced changes in the pituitary gland. A single ip injection of 10 micrograms oestradiol-17 beta (E2) in ovariectomized and adrenalectomized rats resulted in a significant increase in pituitary weight and progesterone receptor (PgR) concentration. In these animals, serum LH level was initially suppressed and restored to control level 24 h after E2 injection. However, 1 mg of dexamethasone (Dex) injected before E2, but not after E2 administration, completely inhibited both the increases in pituitary weight and PgR concentration. The restoration of serum LH level 24 h after E2 was also prevented. These antioestrogenic effects of Dex were blocked by ip administration of the synthetic antiglucocorticoid, RU486. Dex treatment alone did not have any effect on E2-induced changes in the dynamics of pituitary oestrogen receptor. Finally, E2-pellet implanted sc in ovariectomized and adrenalectomized rats for 7 days caused marked increases in pituitary weight and PgR concentration. A single ip injection of 250 micrograms clomiphene citrate (clomiphene) significantly reduced both the pituitary weight and PgR concentration in these animals, but 1 mg of Dex failed to have a similar effect. These results suggest that glucocorticoids antagonize E2 effects on the pituitary by a mechanism different from antioestrogens such as clomiphene. These antioestrogenic effects of glucocorticoid may be involved in induction of ovulation in anovulatory women.

 

[Anthony Roberts]

no it does not.

what that says is that it, in that tissue, a strong binder but weak agonist of the ER.
.

What is says is that it upregulates progesterone. This would be particularly relevant to what you had said, since Deca is a progestin, and your reasoning for not including Nolvadex in PCT after deca is because of it's ability to upregulate PgR. However, none of that is relevant to PCT as I see it, since the deca would have been discontinued (hence "post" cycle therapy) before the clomid or nolvadex is administered.

I doubt that gyno (which is typically estrogen, not progesterone, dependant) would occur with a proper PCT including Nolvadex. The declining levels of Nandrolone (which has only 1/5th the ability to stimulate the PgR as Progesterone) wouldn't be enough, even with an agonist or an increase in receptors, to cause gyno in 99% of the cases.

Add in a proper AI (and I'm talking about an oral one, not a transdermal one here, because we want it to go through the liver on a first pass, and actually interact in the primary tissue where aromatization occurs, as well as where SHBG is produced) and the chances would be slim to nil of getting gyno- and slim just left town. In addition, Nolvadex prevents the possible inhibition caused by moderate doses of HCG, and clomid has not been shown to do the same in any study I've seen as of yet (though one may exist somewhere, I've not seen it).

 

[slat1]

I have always followed what this link says.
No gyno on me and I keep most of what I gain. Most likely that is due to how I eat though.

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/clomid-hcg.asp