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DECA - Never again EVER !

TheStromba

TheStromba

New member
Here is a little warning story for some of you who think Deca is totaly safe.

My cycle was weeks 1-4 Dbol 30mg ed
1-10 Test Cyp 500mg\wk
1-10 Deca 400 mg \wk

Good cycle with decent gains. Post cycle I used both HCG and Clomid.

About 1 week after my post cycle regimen, I was thrown into a bad depression. All my freinds and loved ones wanted to know what the hell was wrong with me. (they still do) I am NOT prone to depression and I have been acting like a fucking lunitic.

I decided to get my Test levels checked and I got the results yesterday.

Total Test=148. Normal Range 300-800

The fucking DECA has my HPTA shut down hard. I just ordered more HCG. Gonna try it with Novaldex. No more clomid for me.

Granted I am 38 years old, and my HPTA is gonna be slower to recover than you 20 year olds. But just a warning to watch out for this shit.

Realize that if your HPTA is shut down. it may fuck with your emotions BIG time. Alot of you easily dismiss the fact that these hormones can have a huge impact on your behaviour.

If you HPTA is slow to recover, STAY AWAY FROM DECA.

That is all.
 
I wouldn't say, "Stay away from Deca"

More of be careful with Deca.

Fina shuts you down quicker and harder than Deca.

Don't take this the wrong way, I sympathize with your situation and I hope you get back to normal.

Go BUCS!
 
TheStromba,

I'm 36yrs old and recently had a similar experience. I tell ya', I never had a problem with it in my 20s, low dosages and often no post-c therapy. I think the takeaway here is: with deca, make sure you do post-c, and then get test levels checked, ESPECIALLY YOU OLD BROS LIKE US!!.......
 
Stillgoing,
The messed up thing is that I DID do all the post cycle stuff correctly.

And I'm STILL essentially shut down. There are other AS to use out there with out having to go through this bullshit.
 
I would run some bromo right away. It might help getting values back to normal. Did for me anyway. Always be prepared for depression and anxiety, no matter what people say. Try inositol and Choline, might help. I know people who got their testosterone values to normal with the help of tribulus terrasis or whetever it's called.
 
TheStromba said:
Here is a little warning story for some of you who think Deca is totaly safe.

My cycle was weeks 1-4 Dbol 30mg ed
1-10 Test Cyp 500mg\wk
1-10 Deca 400 mg \wk

Good cycle with decent gains. Post cycle I used both HCG and Clomid.

About 1 week after my post cycle regimen, I was thrown into a bad depression. All my freinds and loved ones wanted to know what the hell was wrong with me. (they still do) I am NOT prone to depression and I have been acting like a fucking lunitic.

I decided to get my Test levels checked and I got the results yesterday.

Total Test=148. Normal Range 300-800

What were your Total Testo, Free Testo and Weakly Bound levels BEFORE YOU STARTED YOUR CYCLE? You are making conclusions based on a snapshot in time and not looking longitudinally. You may have naturally low Testo levels to begin with. No way to know WITHOUT BASELINE BLOOD TESTING.
Click to expand...
 
Good post. And sorry to hear it. People need to be warned about Deca, especially the older guys.

A few points.

Inositol will help with anxiety but not depression. Trib isn't very effective when LH is supressed.

Stromba; good move losing the clomid, but why noladex? Your problem isn't gyno or even excess estrogen.

Maca, avena sativa, epimedium and zinc may help. And time.

If your HPTA is that slow to recover it may also be time to consider T replacement.

Feel better bro.
 
Re: Re: DECA - Never again EVER !

DrJMW said:
What were your Total Testo, Free Testo and Weakly Bound levels BEFORE YOU STARTED YOUR CYCLE? You are making conclusions based on a snapshot in time and not looking longitudinally. You may have naturally low Testo levels to begin with. No way to know WITHOUT BASELINE BLOOD TESTING. [/B]
Click to expand...

Absolutely, I'm 40 and unless you get your levels checked just don't assume that because you feel "okay" your levels are normal. I've been doing larger stacks with much more deca over the last three years and have my levels checked before and after my cycles to ensure proper usage and I have had Zero problems - while I've put on over 40lbs of hard muscle with the stuff.

Point: People need to judge their own experiences with gear and one can never really generalize - My wife goes into shock eating shrimp (no pun intended) Doesn't mean everyone should not eat shrimp. Just a thought.
 
Nice Follow-up, ybsmall. I have posted many times the importance of baseline blood testing. It is important.
 
I did a baseline test. After all us 35+ dudes are pretty responsible !

My test level was 400 before any cycle. I admit a bit on the lower side.

I am not really generalizing. I AM saying that IF you are slow to recover your HPTA then Deca is not for you.

Nelson- Novaldex is almost identical to Clomid and can be used the same way post cycle.
 
Nolvadex is identical to Clomid.
............................................
Exactly. So why are you taking it?

Loss of libido from Deca is a result of progesterone, not estrogen. Taking Nol or Clo can lower estrogn too much which will hamper libido further.

A test level of 400 isn't bad and I'll presume you had no problems. Give it time. But if it's still under 300 in a month, think about replacement. Your juicin' days may be over if you want a dick in our 40's and 50's.
 
Last edited:
Hello Stromba

I'm not a vet or have years of experience, but I've been following the game for a few years and well read. Your a good bro here on the boards and I feel for your expereince. I expereinced a like crash on prohormones and NONE after an AS cycle (I'm 31 BTW). Here are my thoughts. You quit two long lasting (ester) AS's at the same time leaving your body in a freewheeling state for at least 4 weeks. I think had you run some prop EOD for 11-14 (maybe 11-13 and some dbol on 14) and allowed those long esters to clear it MAY have worked a little better.

What week are you in now? Personally I would jump on a 10 or 5 mg AM dbol for 2 weeks and help dampen the storm, run some HCG again and wait a few days and run some clomid again.

Good luck!
 
Spectre: You're right about the long acting esters and maybe some prop will cushion the fall, albiet a little too late. But running d-bol is bad advice. It can't possibly help and will most definitely hurt.
 
Nandrolone seems to shut down a person at the level of the testes more than any other roid. I will try to dig up the study.

Your problem is not estrogen as Nelson said....it is small shut down balls bro! . You will likely recover test in time but it may take several months of feeling shitty.

DO NOT use test replacement therapy as this will not fix the problem. If you use the test replacement your HPTA will never recover and you will be on it forever.....then again you may indeed need to be on supplement forever but try the treatment below as HPTA almost always recovers IF you don't use test replacement and are not over 60.

You need to use HCG in large shocking doses along with clomid and or Nolva NOW. Clomid or nolva is important since the HCG will raise test levels and then estrogen will go up as a result of aromatization. If you don't use an estrogen blocker then these high estrogen levels will be suppressive.

TRY THIS......HCG either IM or sub Q in the belly fat at 2500iu's every 4 days along with 50 of clomid twice per day and 10 of Nolva. Do this for 32 days. 15 days after you stop get your test and LH tested.
If that doesn't work then do this......5000 iu's of HCG every 4 days for 4 injections and then 2500 every 4 days. Use the same clomid and nolva as above. Run this all for 60 days. Then wait another 15 days and get checked again.
If that doesn't work then do this......5000ius of HCG every other day for 6 injections then 2500 every other day for 6 injections with 150iu's of menotropins. Clomid and nolva as above except increase the nolva to 10mg twice per day.

This formula is proven to work. One fellow that used nandrolone had to go all the way to the last formula above but he did recover.
Before treatment he had a test of 45 and lh less than 1!......after treatment he had a test level of 507 and LH of 9.8. He is okay to this day.

Best of luck!
You can get all the tests done at a few labs that don't require a docs srcipt.

Being on test replacement is not a big deal but I would sooner have my nuts up and working on their own.

You can also contact Doctor Scuggs, Ulters doc
www.newhopemed.com


RG


:)
 
Shit... mine was shut down to 50 last year..... tell me I didn't feel like killing myself....:-) I feel you bro... but Deca still has it's place IMO.

GOod thing you had the test in there.... you might have really hated deca... hehe..


Steele

TheStromba said:
Here is a little warning story for some of you who think Deca is totaly safe.

My cycle was weeks 1-4 Dbol 30mg ed
1-10 Test Cyp 500mg\wk
1-10 Deca 400 mg \wk

Good cycle with decent gains. Post cycle I used both HCG and Clomid.

About 1 week after my post cycle regimen, I was thrown into a bad depression. All my freinds and loved ones wanted to know what the hell was wrong with me. (they still do) I am NOT prone to depression and I have been acting like a fucking lunitic.

I decided to get my Test levels checked and I got the results yesterday.

Total Test=148. Normal Range 300-800

The fucking DECA has my HPTA shut down hard. I just ordered more HCG. Gonna try it with Novaldex. No more clomid for me.

Granted I am 38 years old, and my HPTA is gonna be slower to recover than you 20 year olds. But just a warning to watch out for this shit.

Realize that if your HPTA is shut down. it may fuck with your emotions BIG time. Alot of you easily dismiss the fact that these hormones can have a huge impact on your behaviour.

If you HPTA is slow to recover, STAY AWAY FROM DECA.

That is all.
Click to expand...
 
... warnings that have fallen on deaf ears for so long..
the myth of "no sides" Deca.. slowly crumbles..
:p

on a more serious note..

hit the vitex NOW.. it may help a lot or a little, but it will help.


order some bromocriptine.. or selegine and hydergine..
cabergoline is also an option, however it is very expensive.

avoid deca in the future.. or if you are compelled use the above with it and/or definitely post cycle..

actually those are good for ANY post cycle regimin..

prolactin is almost always elevated, particularly in older men..
 
macrophage69alpha said:
... .

hit the vitex NOW.. it may help a lot or a little, but it will help.


order some bromocriptine.. or selegine and hydergine..
cabergoline is also an option, however it is very expensive.

avoid deca in the future.. or if you are compelled use the above with it and/or definitely post cycle..

actually those are good for ANY post cycle regimin..

prolactin is almost always elevated, particularly in older men..
Click to expand...

Macro - I don't wanna sound TOO nieve, but I have not heard of ANY of the stuff you mention here. Can ya point me in the right direction ?
 
please go to GNC or online and get some maca,

take 10 grams a day for a month, and get more clomid, take 50mgs ed for two months

also pick up some Fermara and take that for a month eod

and this is a reminder of why you should always have a small amount of test in your body at all times.
 
RG: Given your input wouldn't it be wise when using deca type products to use HCG a little more frequently? Say ever 4th week during cycle..

Nelson: I should have been more descript. Two weeks on 10mg AM Dbol combined with HCG therapy then roll onto the clomid is what I was aiming for. Yes it could draw out his recovery slightly but it might help prop him up until the HCG/Clomid gets going. Many people have had good reports doing this..
 
Spirited debate. I love it. So here goes.

RG: True, HRT is a last resort, but if his levels are that low, he may need it. HCG gets you up and going but at some point the HPTA must take over. If the HPTA isn't up to snuff, the HCG is just another temporary fix.

Clomid may supress too much estrogen leading to a more supressed libido.

And finnaly, VITEX has got to be the "Bad Idea of The Decade." The shit raises progesterone! The last thing someone recovering from Deca needs is more progesterone.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Spirited debate. I love it. So here goes.

And finnaly, VITEX has got to be the "Bad Idea of The Decade." The shit raises progesterone! The last thing someone recovering from Deca needs is more progesterone.
Click to expand...

misconception of the decade.... that progestins and progesterone are the same.

progesterone is essential for normal male sexual function and libido

progestins are used for CHEMICAL CASTRATION

note: vitex if properly prepared will have little impact on progesterone (it does not raise progesterone, some of its plant parts contain progesterone)
 
Something I feel was helpful on the latest cycle I did with deca in it was to only run the deca for the first 5 weeks (with test); then bump up the test dosage and run it alone another 4 weeks. The deca is out of the system this way when it comes to post-cycle.
 
The whole premise behind Vitx has about as much validity as the premise behind Myostatin.

Forget the fact that this was cococted by the T-mag cew and they have zero credibility. The "theory" that vitex may lower estrogen is such a stretch it's beyond fathomable. Vitex is given to women for post menapausal symptoms to elevate progesterone and estrone. It was also taken by Monks to ....you guessed to, reduce sexual desire! Any wonder it's called "CHASTE" weed? It's also been known to be given to women in Middle Eastern nations to remove sexual thoughts. (Sick mother fuckers).

The geniuses at T-mag got a hold of one study that suggested if progesterone is elevated it may lower estroge. True. But you're replacing one female hormone with another. And besides, estrogen is more significant to libido than progesterone. Pro-hormones elevate estrogen and some people experience a temporary spike in libido when blood levels are highest. Deca, on the other hand, is a dick killer.

Some other things they don't tell you.

Vitex is used to increase lactation. (Can you spell G-Y-N-O?)

Vitex lowers FSH.

Vitex is classified in herbal and medical texts as an "Anti-Androgen."


Vitex is a scam of the worst sort.
 
actually vitex was discussed here long before t-mag.. it will not lower estrogen..

the issue here is PROLACTIN.. which vitex has been consistantly shown to reduce.

Vitex will not lower estrogen

the whole plant does contain higher levels of progesterone, which can be suppressive (thus the reason for calling it chasteberry)

HOWEVER.. Since extraction of the constituent that is dopaminergic is not being done at this point it is a temporary measure.. its a herb..

which is why bromo is a good choice

you will find a considerable amount of anecdotal evidence to support this here and on AF.

though as above it should be considered as an "emergency" measure.. not a normal one.. true pharm grade dopaminergics and mao-b inhibitors being MUCH preferred.
 
Spectre said:
RG: Given your input wouldn't it be wise when using deca type products to use HCG a little more frequently? Say ever 4th week during cycle..

Yes for sure bro. I recommend HCG during the mid weeks and the last two weeks .Trouble is most guys won't do that much hcg. You could even take it every day for the whole cycle at a very low dose that does not desensitize the testes to natural LH.

RG

:)
Click to expand...
 
Wow! Nice post. I'm 37 and in the middle of a deca/sust cycle. I guess I should take precautions now. Thanks for the heads up!
 
Nelson Montana said:
Spirited debate. I love it. So here goes.

RG: True, HRT is a last resort, but if his levels are that low, he may need it. HCG gets you up and going but at some point the HPTA must take over. If the HPTA isn't up to snuff, the HCG is just another temporary fix.

Clomid may supress too much estrogen leading to a more supressed libido.

And finnaly, VITEX has got to be the "Bad Idea of The Decade." The shit raises progesterone! The last thing someone recovering from Deca needs is more progesterone.
Click to expand...


Yes.....but I think normally guys have trouble recovering test because the testes are small and not very responsive to natural levels of LH..this is what my endochrinologist says anyway.....He seems to think that they will eventually respond and grow back to normal size but in the mean time hammering them with high doses of HCG for a breif period will get the job done sooner.

But LH may be permanently screwed up so then HCG would not be helping in long term recovery and then its time for test replacement.

RG
 
*knock on wood* But even with deca I've never had shrunken balls....however it looks like I'll be adding some bromo to my post cycle therapy
 
Frackal said:
*knock on wood* But even with deca I've never had shrunken balls....however it looks like I'll be adding some bromo to my post cycle therapy
Click to expand...


Funny, my balls did not shrink that much at all on this cycle. They did MUCH more on my first cycle.
 
RG, could you be a bit more specific about recommended doses of hcg mid cycle? For example, I'm planning an 8-10 week cycle of test and equipoise. When during that cycle would it be best to use and how much. I'm 46 and if recovery this time is as difficult as it was last spring during my first (and last) fina cycle, I'm throwing in the towel and sticking to var and gh. Thanks bro.
 
kbrkbr said:
RG, could you be a bit more specific about recommended doses of hcg mid cycle? For example, I'm planning an 8-10 week cycle of test and equipoise. When during that cycle would it be best to use and how much. I'm 46 and if recovery this time is as difficult as it was last spring during my first (and last) fina cycle, I'm throwing in the towel and sticking to var and gh. Thanks bro.
Click to expand...

Try a two weeker as test really returns rapidly post cycle. See my old posts on two week cycles.

HCG should be taken at 500iu's/day mid cycle for 2 weeks and then again at the end of the cycle for two weeks.

RG:)
 
Alright, I am here to stop the insanity!

Deca is only detrimental to your libido if you do not taper it properly. So many people are into the gun-ho style of using Deca at a set dosage for 8 weeks that they have forgotten why Deca was always tapered in the past. The result is problems with you libido.

If tapered properly, then you will be a happy (and bigger) man after the cycle.

As a side note, TheStromba, you are an old man and need more test than any other gear in your cycles. Sorry to sound harsh, but as you said yourself, you test levels will not be close to a man in his 20s and 30s.
 
XBiker said:
I wouldn't say, "Stay away from Deca"

More of be careful with Deca.

Fina shuts you down quicker and harder than Deca.

Don't take this the wrong way, I sympathize with your situation and I hope you get back to normal.

Go BUCS!
Click to expand...

Fina shuts you down faster, but not harder!! Nandralone D's long ester effects ones HPTA in a much more profound and negative way. I always recomend almost double the time on HPTA therapy with both Tren and nandralone.
 
Damn I am in the middle of a Deca/Enan cycle and will have to really think about what to do post cycle. I didn't notice much of an issue last time I was on Deca a year ago but at 34 I won't take a chance.
 
So, then, Cyp and D-bol do not shut you down???? It had to be the Deca????? You took three drugs at once, all of which will shut you down.
 
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