Debate: Cardio versus Fat burners

[disturbed80]

does cardio really burn fat? Or could you just lower your calories and loose fat that way?

Aerobic exercise speeds the metabolism and makes the body use your calories more efficiently. So while you can lose weight with diet alone,
the weight loss will be slow....cardio added to your clean diet will amplify
your results dramatically, and make you healthier in the process.

 

[slat1]

Here is the thing. You don't need either. Just eat clean!
I can get to 7.5% bf easy by eating clean. If I do cardio its crazy.
Its all diet!!!

 

[Ulter]

Here is the thing. You don't need either. Just eat clean!
I can get to 7.5% bf easy by eating clean. If I do cardio its crazy.
Its all diet!!!

That's great advice for YOU but the rest of the world may not have your metabolism. So many men would have to sacrifice a lot of LBM to achieve that.

 

[disturbed80]

But I do know as a fact that Clenbuterol and ephedrine BOTH raise blood sugar, blood pressure, increase cortisol production, and decrease insulin sensitivity....I have seen numerous studies over at NiH showing this, and it has been my own experience as well (I have a glucometer). A few studies are below..




ECA and Clen are like any other drug.... If you don't abuse them, you will be fine.... You say that you know for a fact that ECA and Clen increase cortisol production? Dude, that is just wrong..... Clen has been proven to lower cortisol dramaticaly..... For guys with a metabolism like I do, I need to do heavy cardio with fat burners.... Just cycle on and off, and you'll be fine...

rizz

LOL...Clenbuterol lowers cortisol dramatically?

You really dont know what you're talking about. ANY stimulant that increases the adrenal hormones raise cortisol. Got it? Increased adrenal hormones = more cortisol.

Now i'm not going to do the work for you, but if you go to the National Institute of Health website, and type "clenbuterol cortisol" in their search engine, you will see studies showing increased cortisol production from clenbuterol intake.

 

[Prizz]

Ok, maybe I said it wrong.... It might not decrease cortisol production, but it stops it from wasting muscles.... As posted here recently:

In a healthy bodybuilder using a strong sympathomimetic you basically have the best of all worlds: plenty of free-fatty acids getting released for oxidation in muscle, plenty of insulin-resistant muscle to feast on them, and pretty much all consumed calories getting spared for muscle retention and protein synthesis. Granted, there’s very little good research on human skeletal muscle in the presence of clenbuterol (particularly when it comes to athletes), but reasoned inference and extrapolation certainly paints a pretty convincing picture that clenbuterol is significantly anti-catabolic.

For starters, human research with ephedrine and caffeine has demonstrated that indiscriminate, weaker beta-adrenergic agonism significantly improves protein deposition and preserves lean body mass during periods of caloric restriction (14). Also interesting was the researchers’ discovery that the ephedrine and caffeine mixture wasn’t attenuating skeletal muscular breakdown, but was in fact accelerating protein synthesis. This was proved clinically by 3-methylhistidine examination, an index for skeletal muscle breakdown.

In the sympathomimetic group, an increase in nitrogen balance was demonstrated independent of 3-methylhistidine, which means the ephedrine was actually helping to synthesize lean tissue at a faster rate, and thereby counteracting the increase in diet-induced catabolism (15). See? I wasn’t lying when I said clenbuterol could be anabolic; you just can’t take a high enough dose to get an anabolic degree of protein synthesis augmentation without ending up in the ER long before you could get your shaky ass anywhere near a squat rack.


Like I said, I was wrong saying it decreased Cortisol production, but my point is that it is proven to be ANABOLIC.... Not catabolic....

rizz

 

[Ulter]

Clen has no affect on cortisol in humans one way or the other.

Influence of clenbuterol, a beta-adrenergic agonist, on desipramine induced growth hormone, prolactin and cortisol stimulation.

Laakmann G, Munz T, Hinz A, Voderholzer U.

Psychiatric Hospital, University of Munich, Germany.

We report herein the effects of the beta-adrenergic agonist clenbuterol on desipramine (DMI)-induced growth hormone (GH), prolactin (PRL) and cortisol secretion in healthy male subjects. In the first study, nine subjects were treated with either clenbuterol (0.04 mg, p.o.) or placebo. In the second study, 12 subjects received either DMI (50 mg, i.v.) alone or in combination with clenbuterol (0.04 mg, p.o.) given 60 min prior to DMI administration. clenbuterol alone had no influence on GH, PRL, or cortisol concentrations, compared to placebo. DMI alone caused GH stimulation (mean maximum = 15.7 +/- 3.4 ng/ml), which was significantly lower after combined administration of DMI and clenbuterol (mean maximum = 7.7 +/- 1.6 ng/ml) (p less than or equal to 0.01). DMI-induced PRL and cortisol stimulation was not influenced by clenbuterol pretreatment. These results indicate the inhibiting influence of noradrenergic beta-receptors on GH stimulation.

 

[disturbed80]

I'm not so sure about that. The only study that exists in regards to ephedrine and clenbuterol as anabolics is done in horses, and clenbuterol was shown to be an anabolic, and naturally anti catabolic. I don't have the scientific explanation on hand (but have seen it somewhere, i'll look it up), horses and humans have differences in physiology that makess clenbuterol anabolic in horses, but not so in humans.

 

[disturbed80]

Clen has no affect on cortisol in humans one way or the other.

Influence of clenbuterol, a beta-adrenergic agonist, on desipramine induced growth hormone, prolactin and cortisol stimulation.

Laakmann G, Munz T, Hinz A, Voderholzer U.

Psychiatric Hospital, University of Munich, Germany.

We report herein the effects of the beta-adrenergic agonist clenbuterol on desipramine (DMI)-induced growth hormone (GH), prolactin (PRL) and cortisol secretion in healthy male subjects. In the first study, nine subjects were treated with either clenbuterol (0.04 mg, p.o.) or placebo. In the second study, 12 subjects received either DMI (50 mg, i.v.) alone or in combination with clenbuterol (0.04 mg, p.o.) given 60 min prior to DMI administration. clenbuterol alone had no influence on GH, PRL, or cortisol concentrations, compared to placebo. DMI alone caused GH stimulation (mean maximum = 15.7 +/- 3.4 ng/ml), which was significantly lower after combined administration of DMI and clenbuterol (mean maximum = 7.7 +/- 1.6 ng/ml) (p less than or equal to 0.01). DMI-induced PRL and cortisol stimulation was not influenced by clenbuterol pretreatment. These results indicate the inhibiting influence of noradrenergic beta-receptors on GH stimulation.

Of course ulter, you ignored the other 5 studies that showed increased cortisol from clenbuterol intake, while posting this one only. Read that study again.....This study shows the effect of a single one time dose of clenbuterol at 40mcg, and that is in combination with DMI. I highly doubt ANYONE would have pronounced effects from ONE SINGLE, Low dose of a stimulant. Also, the purpose of this study isn't even to see the effect of clenbuterol on cortisol production.

Hell, I could take a single line of meth and have my hormones measured 60 minutes later, and I doubt cortisol would be signifigantly increased.

 

[disturbed80]

Well, we'll just have to guess at this because most of the studies of long term clenbuterol intake at nih is on animals. All of the studies i've seen of long term clenbuterol intake (in animals) shows increased cortisol. Ignoring the fact that horses and rats are similar to humans in adrenal function, the fact remains that exogenous adrenal hormones and stimulants that increase adrenal hormones increase cortisol.

Anyway, I don't really like arguing about this....but back to the subject at hand.

I don't believe clenbuterol is healthy in the slightest. I know in my own case, it increased my BP sky high, made me shake, made my heart race, and made my doctor do a double take when he did a bloodtest on me. (I had cortisol 3x normal, and high blood sugar in this bloodtest). Do you feel otherwise? Do you honestly believe a drug that can increase BP 20-30 points can be good for you compared to aerobic exercise? Just curious.

 

[Prizz]

I guess I don't really understand the meaning of your post.... The title is Cardio vs Fat burners, and I'm sure that 90% of the people do cardio while on fat burners.... You then go on to give all these reasons that fat burners are bad for you, but like I said before, if you don't abuse them, they do the job and remain safe.... Sure they increase BP, and might affect your sugar levels, but what does that mean? You aren't gonna ever use them again? So many prescription meds, and OTC meds do the same, but are used every day.... The heart affects you list may or may not be the contributed to Fat burners, so that doesn't sway me either.... I mean, if you are lucky enough to lose enough fat with just doing cardio, then God bless you man..... I gotta cut my calories down to like 1500per day, do 1hr of cardio per day, and take ECA to get lean.... And I know there are many out there like me... It's just not an option to cut them out to achieve what I wanna achieve.... One last note, I'm not trying to Flame or start a fight with you... I consider all posts on here a discussion between fellow athletes that we can all learn from.... So I hope I'm not getting you stirred up over this, but i really just dont' understand where youre coming from..... later

rizz