Debaser 5 x 5

[Debaser]

I'm going to embark on a Bill Starr-esque 5 x 5 program once my squatting problems are fixed (recurring problems due to a pelvic tilt and slight counter-clockwise rotation). Strength increase will be the primary goal but I'm sure lots of size will come as a result. Bigbadbootydaddy thanks for all of your PM input, I think I may work my way into that schedule once my conditioning and olympic lift knowledge is increased, but I would still appreciate your input on my "abbreviated" schedule.

Just to clarify, only the last set is the true workset, 5 x 5 for bench press means 4 progressive warmup and then 1 hard set. For example:

150 x 5
175 x 5
200 x 5
225 x 5
250 x 5

Anyway here's my proposed idea:

Monday

Squat: 5 x 5, 1 x 8 (back-off set)
Bench Press: 5 x 5, 1 x 8
Barbell Row: 5 x 5, 1 x 8

Wednesday

Romanian Deadlift: 5 x 5
Overhead Press: 5 x 5
Chin-ups: 3 sets to failure, trying to increase total by at least 1 rep each week
Close grip bench press: 2 x 8

Friday

Squat: 3 x 5, 2 x 3. Final set of 3 should be what you plan your top set of 5's weight to be on monday. Try to add 5-10 lbs each week.
Bench Press: 3 x 5, 2 x 3. Same idea.
Barbell Row: 3 x 5, 2 x 3. Ditto.
Barbell shrug: 5 x 5


I will come in sometimes on off days to do rotator cuff work. I also do wall crunches for ab work, as I'm trying to loosen my hip flexors right now.

This is a pretty complex program even after I simplified it so I'm looking for any and all critique, especially Bigbadbootydaddy as he has lots of 5 x 5 experience. This is a program I could very well be on for a year or more (with 1 week breaks every 8-12 weeks or so). That being said, I'd like it to be pretty flawless even though I can of course make adjustments as time goes on.

 

[JKurz1]

what kind of diet are you on? Gear? Cardio...thanks bro.....

 

[Dorian'sDisciple]

personally,i think there is not enough rest for lower back.

I'm thinking about your spinal erectors with those 3 sessions a week. IMO it may be an idea to rotate the squat and deadlift in 12 week cycles. If you happy squatting/deadlifting x3 a week then go for it.

btw.is that the fixed schedule or do you rotate each routine,doing each one three times every two weeks?

 

[JKurz1]

might agree with the back statement in general......mine aches from squatting on Monday and deads on Thursday...............

 

[BigBadBootyDaddy29]

I have done Bill Starr-style routines since my Freshman year in college, and that was '97. It is not too much for the lower back, in fact it will strengthen the lower back, but I'll get to that in a minute. I understand the two posts that were concerned with the stress to the erectors, but you need to understand that these aren't 1 rep maxes and you aren't running your body into total failure. These programs were designed to train athletes to peak for a season of their respective sports, they need to be slowly eased into and the volume and workload gradually increased to build conditioning. Variety isn't important in the first month or so because your goal is to build up your base and increase workload and conditioning, you aren't working with poundages near your PR's, so stagnation won't come into play.

Debaser, you have the right attitude coming in, and that is knowing you need to build up your conditioning and your willingness to dedicate a year to the program.


Now, to your routine. Day 1 looks good, if you still plan on eventually doing the olympic lifts don't be afraid to throw in some power shrugs or clean high pulls (if you're comfortable with them at this point) after the rows just to get your body used to explosive movements.

On day two, I would replace the RDL's with good mornings because I find them to do more for the lower back and improve the squat more, you can interchange once you get going in a month or so, but for the initial phase I would do GM's, don't worry about hamstrings yet because in a Starr program you squat ass to the floor and your hamstrings will be worked. Again, thats just the initial phase, RDL's will come into play in the following months.

Day 3 looks good. Patience is the key here, you're consistent and understand the idea of committing to a program, so you should do well. Shoot for a 5-10lb increase on squats and just 5 on the bench press.

The rotator cuff work is a good idea, also before each workout do some low back work as a warm-up like a set a hypers to failure, try to shoot for a goal 50 reps x bodyweight then start holding weight for resistance. DON'T use a belt when training, this program will strengthen your erectors and injury won't be a concern. Also, on an off day, probably Sat if you come to the gym throw in some hammer curls, you'll need the biceps work to prevent a tear when you start cleaning and snatching in the future.

Again, I stress variety isn't as important as building your base of strength right now. Eventually , at it's peak, a Starr program will look something like this:
Monday
Back Squat
Flat Bench
Power Clean
Clean Pull (alt. clean and clean pull with conventional deadlift weekly)

Tuesday
Power Snatch
Snatch Pull
Overhead Press
Chins
Barbell Calf Raise

Wednesday
Front Squat
Good Morning or RDL
Incline Press
Dips
Triceps assistance (40 total reps)
Biceps assistance (40 total reps)

Friday
Back Squat
Overhead Squat
Hang Clean
Power Shrug
Flat Bench
Close-Grip Bench
Triceps (40 total reps)
Biceps (40 total reps)

Warm up before every workout is a circuit of full ROM situps, hanging knee raises, hyperextens, and leg curls.

This is what you are trying to work up to, but you can't start out doing this your first week in a training cycle, because you'll need a week off by week 2....I know you know this, but I wanted to post what the routine will EVENTUALLY look like because people are going to be suggesting more variety, changing of rep schemes, etc, i just want to hammer home that the first 3-4 weeks is to build a base of strength to have throughout the routine and to increase workload, which leads wo better conditioning........

Debaser, good luck, I think you'll love training like this. As far as mass goes, I always tell people that Starr would not give this routine to athletes who had to make a weight class because they would put on too much muscle and have to bump up. If you have any more questions or anyone else for that matter, just post them, I should be online a little later.

Also, you are gonna be hungry on this program, so be prepared to spend a lot on groceries.

 

[Lord_Suston]

Sounds interesting, I would like to see the results and thought on this routine Debaser. On friday why not front squats and incline bench?? Work on trouble areas or get more variaty, well good luck

 

[BigBadBootyDaddy29]

Sounds interesting, I would like to see the results and thought on this routine Debaser. On friday why not front squats and incline bench?? Work on trouble areas or get more variaty, well good luck

Excellent point, man, but read my whole post above, I address it all, variety comes into play once the workload is increased and you have built your base of strength.

As far as results, it works, I know first hand. A lot of people say Starr is outdated, BUT if his program worked wonders for natural athletes in the 80's, it will still work wonders, the human body hasn't evolved in the past 20 years, and even the programs schools like Miami and Nebraska and USC use that everybody jerks off over obtaining are not too much different, if anyone wants I can post the template for one.

I came into college in August of 97 as a fullback weighing between 220-225 at 5'11" and we started a program like this. I needed size because i wasn't much bigger than a good sized halfback, In August 2000 I was a 266lb D Tackle and my bodyfat was the same as when I arrived on campus. I am not claiming to know everything about everything, but this is one area I know, so if anyone has any questions on it, ask away, I'd love to help whoever I can

 

[Hansson]

Any experience with Starrs' squat program of mon 3x10, wed 3x3 and fri 3x5? I haven't read the book myself but have seen the program described.

 

[crew9]

personally,i think there is not enough rest for lower back.

I'm thinking about your spinal erectors with those 3 sessions a week. IMO it may be an idea to rotate the squat and deadlift in 12 week cycles. If you happy squatting/deadlifting x3 a week then go for it.

btw.is that the fixed schedule or do you rotate each routine,doing each one three times every two weeks?

The lower back is definitely capable of this workload.