DC vs. HST ???

[Jae]

Ok, these two training programs sounds very similiar... what what exactly is the difference?

Has anyone on here tried both? Which did you prefer?

Karma to all replies.

 

[casualbb]

HST and DC both approach an optimal hypertrophy program, but HST through medical lab work and DC through practical experience. It sort of makes sense...both programs sort of converge on the best way to build muscle (frequent workouts, low volume, progressive load, yada yada yada).

Similarities:
Low volume of work, high frequency, advocates big compound movements, periodic time off from training (DC has you work light, HST not at all)

The superficial differences are as follows:

DC uses rest-pause and extreme failure techniques to build strength and thus allow progressive load. Rest-pause touted as a way to increase "intensity." Lots of exercise switching. Rep range around 10-15

HST echews failure training, citing neural fatigue. Even higher freqeuncy of work, not much exercise switching, built-in progressive load, not dependent on strength increases. Rep range changes to allow increasing load: 15-10-5 and then 5-set eccentrics.

I wrote a thingie on the basics of HST principles (see "What is HST?" below), and the DC sticky links to their cycling for pennies thread. Any more questions?

Oh yeah, and I haven't done DC. I've done the whole extreme failure training thing...I find it kind of draining.

-casualbb

 

[Debaser]

On a side note, casual, I had a theory...if you only did a single rep range, and then increased the load progressively so you hit failure after about 4 weeks, then kept staying at this range, perhaps removing the wednesday session to accomodate CNS recovery, and keep progressing this way? Then maybe bring in rest-pausing to go past failure at the end? This is sort of a take on intensity cycling that hardgainer magazine promotes, but pretty different at the same time. This way the load could be ever-increasing on the same rep range, and the strength gains would probably be pretty damn good...example:

All exercises 10 reps

Monday Wed Friday
60% 63% 66%
70% 73% 76%
80% 83% 86%
90% 93% 96%
Failure rest Add weight
add wt rest add wt
add wt rest add wt
add wt rest add wt
RP+wt rest RP+wt
RP+wt rest RP+wt

start cycle over

just a thought

 

[casualbb]

That sounds like a good blend of strength and hypertrophy training. I've always liked the idea of "get new muscle, then learn to use new muscle."

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think CoolColJ used to do something like this. I wonder how that's been going...

-casualbb

 

[johnb]

I've always looked at DC as HST without the deconditioning.

In HST, progressive load is facilitated by the use of submaximal weights. Submaximal weights work because you're deconditioned.

In DC, strength gains facilitate progressive load, but at higher weights with slightly less frequency.

The moral of the story? Maintain progressive load.

I haven't tried DC yet, HST has been working too well.

 

[Jae]

Can some of you post yours gains off these programs?

 

[Zyglamail]

Can some of you post yours gains off these programs?

While I do like to see the progress people have made on various routines I find it kind of hard to judge them fairly unless a bit of training history is included.

For example, Jon doe with 6 months training under his belt starts at 175lbs gains a good 15lbs of mass and stagnates, he then turnes to HST (DC, west side or insert what ever method). Broke platue and has been progressing using HST (or what ever method) for the last 3 years. Progression over a single HST cycle of 8 weeks or even progression of 2,3 or even 4 HST cycles means little in the big picture, what matters to me is what happens on the 5,6 or 10th HST cycle.

 

[Debaser]

I started training last May @ 170 lbs. My first 8-12 weeks were a typical volume training split. Like it does 90% of the population, it overtrained me after too long. I put on about 5 lbs, if that during that period of time. Pretty lousy for being a flat-out beginner.

After that I adopted H.I.T./hardgainer methods (thanks god I discovered abbreviated training that early in my training career). Somewhere in there I completed an HST cycle, then since then have been doing DC training. I am most satisfied with the gains from the DC program, personally. I love gaining strength and size at very fast rates. I got to a height of 212 at the same BF as when I started, a gain of 42 lbs. I don't have increases from each training protocol, but I assure you all of them were satisfactory (except the volume training of course). A little while ago I lost weight down to 205 or so due to other circumstances (dancing often, not eating enough and being sick) and now I'm back up to 208-210. I'm keeping my bodyfat pretty consistant now and probably in the middle of April I'm going to start cutting.

 

[Zyglamail]

I started training last May @ 170 lbs. My first 8-12 weeks were a typical volume training split. Like it does 90% of the population, it overtrained me after too long. I put on about 5 lbs, if that during that period of time. Pretty lousy for being a flat-out beginner.

Thanks Debaser, now that is the kind of feedback that carries a little more weight but still wont apply to a lot of use here simply because we have been training for so long and have added more than 40lbs. 40lbs though is a very nice accomplishment for you though but from here on out you will find things dont come quite so easy.

 

[Debaser]

Gains don't appear to be slowing down anytime soon, to be honest I think I'll hit at least 220-230 before they get slower, but we'll see...

 

[InProgress]

Is all that natural gains? Y

 

[InProgress]

Is all that natural gains? You started last May at 170 and now your at 212 and the same bodyfat?

 

[Debaser]

yes natural

 

[Deepsquat]

I have been training for 24 years. I have tried everything from high volume to the Bulgairian Burts, to Mike Mentzer, and now finally DC . I have trained both with drugs and without...my progress over the last 8 weeks with DC is second to nothing I have ever done ..including 2 grams of test and 6oomg of deca ..with 8-10 sets a bodypart.... I am weighing 248-250 right now ..was 242 8 weeks ago ..I have been as high as 260 in the past ...but I will say that the weight gain over the last 8 weeks ( though minor compared to some peoples) is all muscle.
Check my avatar..I took that 2 days ago..34 inch waist ..I am 40 years old, I was about this lean last summer, while doing Mentzers routine,but I only weighed 234...so for right now I will be doing nothing but a DC format.
This last week I dropped off the RP on the routine, just doing straight sets, and I am still getting stronger !
9 weeks of non-stop increases in strength.

 

[AAP]

Deepsquat - if you don't mind... could you post what exercises you are incorporating for your DC training? Which on Day 1, Day 2, Day 1, Day 2, etc..

Thanks a ton.

 

[Zyglamail]

Thanks for the input Deepsquat. I myself have been following a pretty typical split, each body part directly once a week. I switched to working heavy and doing 6-8 sets per body part and have kind of gone stale. I seem to be suffering from some CNS fatigue so I am thinking of switching things up a bit. Good to hear someone who has been around is getting good results using a more frequent/lower volume method of training.

 

[AAP]

Bump for Deepsquat again.

 

[bignate73]

did you guys search the DC sticky up top? i think a few of the guys put their exercises up there after Louden swain asked to see examples of other routines.

 

[needsleep]

Wow Deepsquat that's great going, seeing others making progress is almost as inspiring as seeing myself progress. I'm getting a lot of joy from DC training myself and seeing the feedback of others also enjoying it really drills it in that I've found something worth clinging on to here.

 

[Boss101]

For everyone who is training naturally with DC or HST are you using any creatine or other supplements?

I'm on my sixth week of my HST cycle, right now I'm on my second week of the 5's I'll stick with the 5's for another two weeks.

So far I've gained 8lbs, sitting at 200lbs right now. I have yet to take measurements I will at the end of my cycle.

 

[casualbb]

I used creatine for my second cycle. In retrospect, I think I wasn't eating enough as I only put on as much weight as I did the first cycle (8 pounds). I didn't use it this cycle because I ran out and I'm cutting. Next cycle I'll use it because I'm doing ultra-high frequency HST (6x/week) as an experiment.

-casualbb

 

[Deepsquat]

Deepsquat - if you don't mind... could you post what exercises you are incorporating for your DC training? Which on Day 1, Day 2, Day 1, Day 2, etc..

Thanks a ton.

When I get a chance I will be more specific, but for now what I did yesterday Day 1 , incline press
Seated hammer military press close grip bench press pull up s
seated cable rows each set I shoot for 8-12 reps and with my rest pause sets I total out at 15-20 reps.
Day 2 is tomorrow.will do barbell curl , wrist curl, seated calf raises, hack squat . stiff legged dead lift.

 

[AAP]

One last question... when does everyone do the stretches? After doing your chest exercise, do you immediately do the chest stretch or do you wait until you finish chest shoulder and tris and then stretch them then?

 

[Baoh]

Which did you prefer?

I have used both. I prefer HST, as it places relatively little strain on my CNS, which is already stressed heavily from other aspects of my life. Also, HST was more effective in helping me accomplish my hypertrophy goals.