Dbol+Anavar

[TA TownBacker]

My buddy was thinking about trying out this cycle for his next. He is limited to certian types of Gear due to testing and already has his supply. Tell me what you think (P.S. I know it's two 17aa's but that is why it's split up):

Week 1-- 40mg dbol/ed
Week 2-- 20mg dbol & 20mg papervar/ed
Week3-5--40mgvar/ed

Clomid following

 

[RdStrcklnd]

I would stretch it to 6 weeks if he can, split up the same way. He is probably going to want some arimidex/liquidex with that dbol.

 

[jc21]

two orals at the same time is a big no...bottom line. and dbol works like crap by itself.

 

[TA TownBacker]

is there that much difference in

40mg dbol
40mg var
20mg both?

Plus the dbol isn't by itself, he was going to use it to kickstart the cycle

 

[jc21]

oh ok...put up the whole cycle. it would make a lot more sense that way.

 

[Vageta]

two orals at the same time is a big no...bottom line. and dbol works like crap by itself.

And tell us why two 17aa orals are a big no-no? So long as the dosages aren't high on both drugs the liver shouldn't see it any different than a single high dose of one 17aa. If you want to run 100mg of dbol, 100mg of a-bombs, 75mg of winny then perhaps you're pushing it, but the dosages he's proposing are hardly "high".

Also Dbol by itself can work just fine if your diet and training is in order. So long as you use an anti-e or be smart enough to realize what is water and what is muscle then there is nothing wrong with a dbol only cycle. Muscle is muscle regardless what drug is used to build it. Dbol gets a bad rap because it's the first drug a lot of newbies like to use and when they lose gains they think it's the drugs fault. Unfortunately it was their poor diet and post cycle planning that caused it. There are plenty of people on this board that have gotten great results on Dbol only cycles because they knew what the hell they were doing.

I will be running a dbol/ox experiment starting in about 2 weeks or so. The plan is to run dbol at 35mg daily and ox at 20mg daily for 6 weeks. If results are going good I might stretch it a couple extra weeks. I think liver concerns are highly overrated so long as you aren't doing mega doses of 17aa's. The first time I did an 6 week anavar cycle at 40mg a day I had a blood test done. I used no liver protectants and my liver values were well within normal, not even close to borderline.

Here is a link to the thread regarding my dbol/anavar cycle. It contains my theories and plans on this cycle so it may answer some of your questions.

Dbol/var cycle

 

[RdStrcklnd]

I think a lot of the liver toxicity stuff is over stated, as long as you are taking time off. I like the way he planned it, starting with dbol alone to kickstart. Streth it to six weeks and add arimidex and you should see nice gains:

1-2 40mg Dbol, 1mg arim eod
3-4 20mg Dbol, 20mg Var, .5mg arim eod
5-6 40mg Var
7-9 Clomid/arimidex post cycle

 

[jc21]

ok sure it is fine to run two orals at the same time with low doses...but i really dont see the point. i think you would get better results with just one. especially when you are subing something like avavar for dbol. anavar doesnt even come close in my book. when i say it is a no...i mean at normal doses.

 

[G ChildlihC G]

two orals at the same time is a big no...bottom line. and dbol works like crap by itself.

Agree agree agree!

If you ain't gonna shoot it, don't even bother.

 

[Vageta]

Agree agree agree!

If you ain't gonna shoot it, don't even bother.

That's an intelligent response. I suppose you equate sticking yourself with a needle as being macho.

 

[magdelana]

I think maybe 60 mg of D-bol each day would work more for him. He need also to take the clomid all the way through the cycle, not just at the end there. Clomid is a estrogen blocker and he needs it to be sure not to get gyno.

For the hepatotoxity i think 4-5 weeks cycle is fine to not be dangerous if he is not drinking and doesnt have hepatitius. Also after about 5 weeks D-bol doesnt work much anymore. Guys stop gaining from it after about that time. As a women i dont use it, but have know MANY guys who have used it with these results.

 

[jc21]

That's an intelligent response. I suppose you equate sticking yourself with a needle as being macho.

wow man i think you have some hostility problems today. i agree with him 100% and it has nothing to do with being macho. it is well known that most injectables are easier on the body than orals. if you arent ready to stick yourself ...then you arent ready for gear...i think that is a good philosophy.

 

[Vageta]

I'ts not hositlity, it's common sense. A beginner can get great gains off of an oral cycle. If injectables are the only route then why the hell do we have orals and why are most of the questions regarding AS about them? Injectables may be "easier" on the body theoretically but there are a hell of a lot more issues that you have to worry about when injecting. There is always a risk of injecting into a vein, the risk of infection and the build-up of scar tissue over time. If someone is that worried about liver damage then they should be smart enough to realize that injectables aren't "safer", they just have a different set of risks. I'd much rather see people bust their cherry on orals to learn as much about steroids as possible. Injectable steroids are a more advanced approach and depending on one's goals you may never need to go that far. Not everyone on this board dreams to be Ronnie Coleman, I know I don't. Orals alone can take you to your genetic limit much faster than doing it naturally. Injectables may get you there faster than orals but who says speed is the most important factor?

For the last time I'm not saying that injectable cycles are bad. They offer the most bang for the buck over orals and there is no issues with liver toxicity. I have no doubt that a properly constructed injectable cycle will give more gains than the best contructed oral cycle. My problem is when someone asks a simple question about an oral cycle they are bombarded with "inject or don't bother" bullshit. Many of the mods on this board have had great success with oral cycles and there is no doubt that they work. Why would you fault anyone for attempting to try one? If they don't get the results they want then they can move up to the heavier drugs, but if they are happy with the results then more power to them.

The readiness to inject oneself with an anabolic substance has no bearing on being "ready" to use them. Knowing the basics of training and diet is the only pre-requisite that matters. If you aren't educated enough to make good, keepable gains on an oral only cycle then you aren't ready for an injectable cycle either because the same rules apply to both. I will probably inject in the future no doubt, but right now I'm making awesome gains with orals and see no reason to go the other route.

Anyone who uses injectables because they think the "gains are more solid" needs to take a serious step back and make sure they understand post cycle recovery. You should be able to keep gains from an oral cycle just as easy as an injectable cycle. If not then you have more learning to do.

 

[G ChildlihC G]

That's an intelligent response. I suppose you equate sticking yourself with a needle as being macho.

This doesn't have anything to do with being "macho" as you put it. It has to do with the fact that injectibles yield far better and maintainable results with having fewer sides than orals do. Orals are great when stacked along with injectibles, but alone they are sh*t, plain and simple.

 

[Vageta]

It has to do with the fact that injectibles yield far better and maintainable results with having fewer sides than orals do.

Read my above statement in the last paragraph regarding the maintanable results issue that I answered before you even wrote it. If you can't maintain gains on an oral cycle then you're using injectables as a crutch because you can't come off of the short acting drugs correctly. If you know your shit well enough to come off something like Dbol and keep your gains, then everything else is a walk in the park.

Orals are great when stacked along with injectibles, but alone they are sh*t, plain and simple.

When you make such a "matter of fact" statement as that then you come off as completely single minded and really aren't worth arguing with. My guess is you've ran orals only before and had bad results. First of all each of us have different results to different drugs so orals may suck for you but not for the next guy. If you've never ran an oral only cycle then you have no basis for arguement other than repeating what you've seen on this board or what your buddies have told you(heresay). I've done oral only cycles and the results were anything but shitty. If I can get good results with no sides using what I use now, why would I ever risk taking something more potent? When the day comes that I stop getting results from orals only then I will take the next step. Until then I will enjoy my current choice of gear.

It's not just me, ask some of the moderators and long time members(Huck, Ulter, Fonz, etc..). They've all had great oral only cycle results so when you say they're worthless then you're conflicting what many of the veterans have said.

Instead of telling people to inject or don't bother, why not simply tell them the truth. Orals can give great results, especially to those who don't have much previous AS use. Sure they'd make more gains with injectables most likely, but they wouldn't get no gains from orals.

 

[jc21]

great gains off an oral cycle...yeah right. when is the last time you heard of a guy gaining 20 pounds of anavar. and dbol just doesnt work good alone. winny? yeah right. test/deca...that is what gives the gains, along with some dbol. you have your opinions i have mine. from the sounds of it, you juice for the hell of it. i juice to compete.

 

[G ChildlihC G]

My guess is you've ran orals only before and had bad results. First of all each of us have different results to different drugs so orals may suck for you but not for the next guy.

I agree with you, you made some good points, but I lost all the gains I had from oral only cycles. The people I know who have done Dbol only cycles lost everything. It might just be a crap shoot, maybe. I'm just saying why waste a cycle on orals when you can achieve better results from injectibles?
"Just my .10, my .02 are free..."

 

[Vageta]

G child, you're right. It's not wrong to ask the question "why do orals when you can get better gains with an injectable?". I agree to some extent, but if someone has their mind set to try something different then let them. I'd rather give them advice on how to achieve the best results then tell them straight up their idea is shitty.

jc21- Since you're competing I can't argue with your logic. However the majority of us aren't competing and thus we shouldn't immediately follow the cycles of bodybuilders. For you guys you absolutely need to get the best gains possible in the shortest amount of time. For those of us that use them for other reasons, most likely some sort of personal goals then we can get away with less. I never plan to compete and am only using AS to reach my genetic potential faster than naturally. For this kind of goal then lighter cycles over time should suffice. If I were to compete some day then no doubt I'd have to up the ante and get the most bang for the buck.

I'm not out to argue with you for the sake of arguing. It's just that we all have different goals and there is no one right answer for all of us. I just hate seeing advice given out to people that may not be the best for them. This person obviously isn't competing and just wants to gain some mass. For him the aformentioned cycle may be enough to do it if he has done his homework. If not then he'll lose the gains and eventually try injectables. If he gets good gains and can keep them from this simple cycle then he won't have to go the advanced route just yet.

Anytime I see a thread where I see "orals suck" I always have to chime in because from experience I have a difference of opinion. Maybe I'm lucky but others have gotten good results as I have so we must be doing something right.

 

[G ChildlihC G]

Anytime I see a thread where I see "orals suck" I always have to chime in because from experience I have a difference of opinion.

"Orals suck!"

 

[magdelana]

winny? yeah right.

JC have you every used a gram or more per week of Test? I bet you have many times. Have you ever used a gram a week of injectable Winny? Never, I think.

Winstrol and Primobolan WILL put serious muscle on you with fewer sides IF you take them in the same gram dosages you take the more androgenic stuff like cyp, Tren, etc.
Try 1500 mgs of Winstrol or Primobolan a week for 8 weeks and tell me how you gained. yes i know it is very expensive but figure that you dont need any anti E drugs on this cycle and the price isnt so bad. And you will look as hard as a rock all through this cycle.

 

[G ChildlihC G]

you will look as hard as a rock all through this cycle.

Well... will ALL of me be hard as a rock through this cycle?

 

[G ChildlihC G]

 

[jc21]

JC have you every used a gram or more per week of Test? I bet you have many times. Have you ever used a gram a week of injectable Winny? Never, I think.

nope cant say i have went up to 1 gram of winny a week...but in a few weeks i will get to 700mg/wk. i guess we will see how it goes. oh and i have done a gram of test numerous times without any sides.

 

[MadCow1]

and dbol works like crap by itself.

this is just not true no matter how many times people repeat it on this board. The problem is that the people running dbol alone are ussually total novices who consider water weight to be muscle gains and don't know enough about training or diet to hold onto the majority of the gains from the drug.

I have run mutliple dbol only cycles and retained >70% from every one (the 30% loss includes water weight).

This dbol sucks thing never began to appear until the internet enable the clueless novices to get hold of roids. No one would hook up the gym dork before now.

 

[jc21]

this is just not true no matter how many times people repeat it on this board. The problem is that the people running dbol alone are ussually total novices who consider water weight to be muscle gains and don't know enough about training or diet to hold onto the majority of the gains from the drug.

i agree...but who are we giving advise to on here. people that have 10+ cycles under their belt or the novices. so i just dont say it will work for the experienced, because everyone thinks they are experienced.

and i truely believe that dbol alone will not work near as well as test/dbol.

 

[MadCow1]

Any drug stacked will work better and an increased dosage will result in more gains (although not always worth it).

dbol is better with test and Test+dbol is better than test alone (far better in my experience as I don't respond well to test only).

I'd venture that 35mg (245mg weekly) of dbol daily will produce better gains than 250mg of test weekly. I actually think 25mg (175mg weekly) of dbol would stand against 250 of test pretty easily.

Still, we can't make deffinitive statements which are false just to cater to absolute novices.

 

[Vageta]

Still, we can't make deffinitive statements which are false just to cater to absolute novices.

Which has been my arguement the entire time. Telling a newbie that Dbol only is a shit cycle isn't the right answer. Telling them they'd do better adding an injectable would be more appropriate. If a newbie can manage to keep gains on a Dbol only cycle then he's obviously done his homework.

 

[jc21]

well that is your guys opinion....i am against it. i guess that is all that needs to be said. you guys just be content with your juicing for whatever reason you do it..i dont agree with it though.

 

[MadCow1]

well that is your guys opinion....i am against it. i guess that is all that needs to be said. you guys just be content with your juicing for whatever reason you do it..i dont agree with it though.

I only disagreed with your making a blanket statement about dbol's ineffectiveness.

Maybe you aren't replying to me but it seems like you took it the wrong way.

 

[magdelana]

Nice discussion happening here.

It isnt so that ANY AAS stacked will give better gains. Some AAS bind to the ARs in your body (like any Test) and others do not (like D-bol). D-bol does its anabolic in other ways. They are good together in this way. So certainly d-bol and Test would give a great result. My english is failing here and i see i do not explain this so well. sorry if i am unclear.

BTW: JC is that YOUR chest? looks nice.