DB Lateral and BB Front Raise?

[nigg]

Do they both work the same part of the shoulder? Here's my routine for my shoulders..

ShoulderPress 3 sets 10/8/6 (adding weight)
UprightRows 3 sets 10/8/6 (adding wieght)
DB Lateral Raise 3 sets 10/8/6 (adding weight)
BB Rear Delt Row 3 sets 10/8/6 (adding weight)

I was thinking about changing the BB Rear Delt Row to BB front Raise or maybe someone else has a better exercise to suggest? Keep in mind I only have a Bench Press set and DBs.

 

[Griz1]

Drop the front raises.

They are, IMHO, just dumb. I rank them right up there with kickbacks.

You have a choice, do kickbacks, or simply hang a sign around your neck in the gym that says "I'm a Fag".

 

[Madcow2]

I'm hoping your setup at least gives you the ability to squat and pull from the floor. Deltoid isolation exercises serve nearly no purpose in getting big and strong. If the purpose is to waste time, well - they are near the top of the list.

 

[BlondBomber]

I'm hoping your setup at least gives you the ability to squat and pull from the floor. Deltoid isolation exercises serve nearly no purpose in getting big and strong. If the purpose is to waste time, well - they are near the top of the list.

Are you really serious? Nigg is obviously BBing, not attempting to PL. Additionally, the vast majority of monster benchers only perform front, side and rear isolation lifts for their delts. Check out the protocols of the Westside and Metal Militia guys and you will see that most do not perform overhead presses. One noted exception that I can think of is Kenny Paterson who like to once a training cycle perfomr seated OHP with reverse bands to overload his delts, but its his ME movement for the week.

 

[Madcow2]

I'm dead serious in saying they serve nearly no purpose in getting big and strong. Most elite westside lifters or metal militia are already at their desired weight. If they are doing laterals, it certainly isn't to gain shoulder mass - go ahead and ask. Overhead work has been seriously neglected in PL and BBing circles over the past 20 years. You look at the rate of shoulder injuries compared to when guys used to do a lot of overhead because they competed in OL too - an interesting trend to say the least and I'm betting you'll see this changing over the next 10 years as more offseason/non comp cycle overhead work gets included in programs with good results (note that laterals have been very popular during this period too). Overhead work is a fundemental movement for the body. It's just a lot healthier for you to be benching heavy with strong stable shoulders and laterals IMO aren't a great way to do this (obviously in a comp cycle, they might not want to include another compound press but cycling these through at least part of the year is IMO critical). Increase your best military or push press or even overhead support (a la old school lifting) and you'll see this transfer to many other movements and definitely the bench.

Now for BBing, it depends on his purpose in doing them. Is he trying to get big? Is he trying to add some detail to his rear delt because his anteriors overbalance them from all his pressing? In the 2nd instance I can see an aesthetic benefit and reason for a bit of isolation work. If he's just trying to get big right now and not woried about anything in particular (it seems 99% of all people include laterals because they believe they must isolate everything and have no other purpose) - these just don't cut it. The only people I've seen actually add to shoulder mass with these were on significant dosages of anabolics - still, they'd be better served by taking that effort and putting more emphasis on their barbell row, overhead work, and pullups.

But really, after all of that - he can go ahead and do the laterals or not because if he's not setup to squat or pull he's slashing 80-90% of his gains (even in the short-term) right there.

Here's a Pendlay-ism concerning some overhead work:

various experiences with other people have convinced me that push presses yield the most transferable upper body strength of any execise, invariably if someones push press goes up, they go up in military, bench press, dumbell presses of all kinds, strength with any odd implement, etc. a person who can push press 400lbs will be strong on just about everything, regardless of how often they train it.

Obviously opinions on overhead work will differ but I can at least assure you that I'm 100% dead serious in my opinions on laterals being just randomly applied without a compelling reason.

 

[nigg]

I decided to ditch the Lateral raises and the BB rear delt row and changed my shoulder routine to....

Shoulder Press 3 sets - 10/8/6
Arnold DB Press 3 sets - 10/8/6
Shrugs 3 sets - 10/8/6
Upright Rows 3 sets - 10/8/6

That should be good.

 

[Neo22]

I decided to ditch the Lateral raises and the BB rear delt row and changed my shoulder routine to....

Shoulder Press 3 sets - 10/8/6
Arnold DB Press 3 sets - 10/8/6
Shrugs 3 sets - 10/8/6
Upright Rows 3 sets - 10/8/6

That should be good.

You seriously DONT need two types of pressing movements IMO. YOu don't need a db press and a shoulder press. YOu do enough during chest days.

 

[JKurz1]

UPRIGHT ROWS ARE a nightmare on the rotator cuff.............

 

[d3track]

i'd urg you to try either push presses or standing overhead press
i havent talked to anyone who has not gotten good results using those