D*n*p ??

[junk]

In April 1935, a virtual epidemic of cataracts began to occur, predominantly in young women who had been taking dinitrophenol. Some cases showed up months or years after the last dose of the drug had been taken. Tragically, once started, changes in the eye's lens progressed rapidly until vision was obscured. Dr. Warren D. Homer, a San Francisco ophthalmologist and one of the first to report dinitrophenol-related cataracts, estimated that more than 164 people were affected.

This is the most freightning of all. Back then about 100,000 took DNP so it seemed obvious the DNP had caused it. If a few bodybuilders develop cataracts in 2-3 years from their last DNP dose, no one will know the source of the problem. That side effect alone is enough for not using DNP IMHO.

 

[theoak01]

Im not sure DNP is the real problem here,and I feel used responsibly by someone who knows their body,and knows when to stop if something doesnt feel right,that it is a great tool,its def not a wonder drug thats for sure,but it does work.

what pisses me off are newbies who have done one or two cycle and worked out for a year and know fuck all about nutrition jumping to this stuff and ending up dead making the rest of the BB world look bad

 

[buckwheat1]

This is the most freightning of all. Back then about 100,000 took DNP so it seemed obvious the DNP had caused it. If a few bodybuilders develop cataracts in 2-3 years from their last DNP dose, no one will know the source of the problem. That side effect alone is enough for not using DNP IMHO.

Cataracts were probably caused because of the free radical damage done from the high level of oxidation that occurs during DNP use. That is why it imperative to use a full spectrum of of anti-oxidants. For me this is not hard, since I take a load of supplements daily when not on DNP. Some of the ones that come to mind are:

- green tea
- r alpha lipoic acid
- vitamin C
- Gamma Vitamin E
- Lycopene
- grape seed extract
- Lutein
- Curcumin
- ellagic acid
- beta carotene
- CoQ10
- Ibedone




When on DNP, I step up the amounts I take and for water solubles the number of times per day.

 

[buckwheat1]

dont know about that one buckwheat. use roids incorrectly, and really, youre staring down the barrel of hypoganadism, hrt, libido problems, and a few other cosmetic dramas (hair, tits). sure some more sinister things happen (cancer) but really, thats very very rare

thing about dnp is that if you screw it up, its all over. youre dead. its not just an allergic reactin you need to worry about, its overdose. allergic reactions are ok- you get some swelling, go the the hospital, get a jab of adrenalin and an antihistamine, and there you go. overdose on dnp, and youre well and truly fucked.

dnp and roids are two very different animals. the only way i can kill you quickly with roids is to break the ampule and slash your wrists. dnp though....screw up the capping process and see you later

DNP has the potential to be deadly, but so does my car. GoldenDelicious, you seem like a intelligent and reasonable guy. Except for the allergic reaction, show me studies, newpaper reports that show that when DNP is used in a manner consistent with the different DNP FAQ's that we have any evidence that DNP is not safe.

I mean we keep hearing about the guy who died from DNP but he was also on ecstasy and who know what else. So we really don't know if DNP killed him or that was just part of the equation. Plus the FAQ's mention that DNP should not be used with other drugs like esctasy, cocaine, meth, etc.


When I was given vicodin, the instructions said to take 2-3 per day. Now if I decide for kicks to see what would happen if I take the whole bottle and I overdose, does this mean that we shouldn't prescribe vicodin.

If I wrote that I was using 2-3 vicodins a day for a limited time, no one would be posting that I should not be using vicodin or that vicodin is poison because people have died from vicodin or tylenol.

No. Again, because I am using it in a safe manner.


I'll state it again. I have seen no evidence that DNP when used reasonable dosages and a proper procotol is used similiar to what is described in the various DNP FAQ's is not safe. Until I do, I will use DNP as a tool (and effective one at that). Anybody that shows me some evidence that shows that DNP used in this matter is deadly, I will gladly stop using and supporting its use.

 

[guards]

I am anti-DNP.


It is too dangerous IMO for the gains that you can achieve. May take a little bit longer but cardio and diet will get you the same results.

 

[buckwheat1]

I am anti-DNP.


It is too dangerous IMO for the gains that you can achieve. May take a little bit longer but cardio and diet will get you the same results.

Your entitled to your opinion, but it still does not answer my question. And I am not trying to start a fight here but our opinions should be based on some logic with some supporting evidence. Otherwise we are no better than the anti-steroid groups that we bitch about all of the time. In fact, my arguing here is probably more centered around having people justify their claims. If we all did this, we would live in a much better world. Anyways, back to DNP.

When DNP is used in a fashion that is consistent with the DNP FAQ's protocol, where is the evidence showing that this has put anyone in danger?

And don't give me the, "I know somebody that". A few years ago when GHB was popular, I would run into so many people that knew a friend that had died from GHB.

The problem is that even the goverments own website showed only like 12 GHB related deaths over a 3 year period of time. So it was amazing how all of these people knew these 12 people.

I think GD mentioned that you could take 400mg of DNP and die. Show me the evidence that a single 400mg dose of DNP has killed anyone. I think the only way this would happen is if you were allergic. And I have admitted that this is one of the things that people need to be cautious about.

I can accept someone arguing that they are not comfortable with DNP because they don't know what the long term effects may be. But its hard for me to accept people saying that responsible use of DNP is dangerous when there is no evidence showing this. But yet we have a good amount of evidence that showed a large number of people using DNP over long periods of time and one of the only issues was a small number of women getting cataracts.

If you guys don't have prove that it is dangerous when then don't state so. If you don't feel comfortable with it and choose not to use it fine.

 

[RADAR]

I agree with Guards, I'm anti DNP also! Theres no evidence linking DNP to moderate use. but anything being used for insecticide is not going to be good for your body---You may not know it now but what about 10-20 yrs later!

RADAR

 

[Maetenloch]

I agree with Guards, I'm anti DNP also! Theres no evidence linking DNP to moderate use. but anything being used for insecticide is not going to be good for your body---You may not know it now but what about 10-20 yrs later!

RADAR

Just because a chemical is used for one purpose doesn't mean it can't have other therapeutic medical uses. For instance warfarin is widely used as a rat poison, but is also used as an anticoagulant in humans. Same chemical, same mechanism, big difference in dosage/body weight. Nitrolglycerin is best known as an explosive, but it's also used as a vasodilator for angina (heart pain).

 

[TraxZBT]

Just because a chemical is used for one purpose doesn't mean it can't have other therapeutic medical uses. For instance warfarin is widely used as a rat poison, but is also used as an anticoagulant in humans. Same chemical, same mechanism, big difference in dosage/body weight. Nitrolglycerin is best known as an explosive, but it's also used as a vasodilator for angina (heart pain).

good post.. karma

 

[GoldenDelicious]

DNP has the potential to be deadly, but so does my car. GoldenDelicious, you seem like a intelligent and reasonable guy. Except for the allergic reaction, show me studies, newpaper reports that show that when DNP is used in a manner consistent with the different DNP FAQ's that we have any evidence that DNP is not safe.

I mean we keep hearing about the guy who died from DNP but he was also on ecstasy and who know what else. So we really don't know if DNP killed him or that was just part of the equation. Plus the FAQ's mention that DNP should not be used with other drugs like esctasy, cocaine, meth, etc.


When I was given vicodin, the instructions said to take 2-3 per day. Now if I decide for kicks to see what would happen if I take the whole bottle and I overdose, does this mean that we shouldn't prescribe vicodin.

If I wrote that I was using 2-3 vicodins a day for a limited time, no one would be posting that I should not be using vicodin or that vicodin is poison because people have died from vicodin or tylenol.

No. Again, because I am using it in a safe manner.


I'll state it again. I have seen no evidence that DNP when used reasonable dosages and a proper procotol is used similiar to what is described in the various DNP FAQ's is not safe. Until I do, I will use DNP as a tool (and effective one at that). Anybody that shows me some evidence that shows that DNP used in this matter is deadly, I will gladly stop using and supporting its use.

buckwheat i see where youre coming from. dont get me wrong.

but look im a pharmacist and i know all about inter individual variation in response to various drugs. i have seen people who can take 30mg of morphine and not be affected, and others who take 3mg and faint. i can assure you that there are some people out there who will ahve severe adverse events at a dose that others wont benefit from.

that is the entire basis for what i am saying. the mechanism by which people die using dnp is a simple extension of its action- you take too much, and your ability to produce atp is severely affected, perhaps to the point where your cells cannot sustain themselves. simple as that.

using a low therapeutic index drug (one where the desired effect and toxic effect are at similar dosages) with inter individual variability is just setting some people up for an overdose.

i could waffle on about such things as low blood sugar increasing the risk of fainting, which in the case of a person driving or falling is dangerous, or i could talk about dehydration and possible consequences on the kidneys and cardiovascular system etc, but it wont convince you, it seems. the data you want (ie this person took x mg of dnp and died) just isnt out there, because people take it to the grave with them, and its use just isnt prevalent enough these days.

that being said, i am really happy to hear people getting good results off dnp. its great- im not some doom slinging nay sayer who hates a short cut- who cares! but its the people who suffer from misadventure that i feel really bad about. then mix in the pricks who sell dnp for $10 a cap, not caring what happens to the user, and i get a little pissed off.

cheers