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Critique my Havoc cycle
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DJLegacy2k1
New member
Odd, I back most products from sponsors on this board which LOTS of people on other boards think are a waste, but I can find personal blogs, websites, boards and everything with people that are doing well with Havoc. Yet everyone on this board bashes Havoc. Some PHs are horrible on sides, but saying ALL PHs are the same is like saying all steroids are the same and have the same sides and all PCT products are the same.
Anyways, I decided to test Havoc at the end of my current PP cycle and I will let you guys know honestly what I think about it. But after I read almost ALL good things about it, (some shakey responses about EPI but Havoc is impressing people), I decided to see what all the buzz is about.
I will report back. I am starting Day 3 today, Day 1-20mg, Day 2/3: 30mg, and I will be staying at 30mg barring any sides for 4 weeks. Ive ran Dermacrine many times and I will be able to tell you anything I notice out of the ordinary.
If Havoc is junk I will be MORE than happy to down it FAST!
If it works, then it works, who knows, we shall see.
-Legacy
Anyways, I decided to test Havoc at the end of my current PP cycle and I will let you guys know honestly what I think about it. But after I read almost ALL good things about it, (some shakey responses about EPI but Havoc is impressing people), I decided to see what all the buzz is about.
I will report back. I am starting Day 3 today, Day 1-20mg, Day 2/3: 30mg, and I will be staying at 30mg barring any sides for 4 weeks. Ive ran Dermacrine many times and I will be able to tell you anything I notice out of the ordinary.
If Havoc is junk I will be MORE than happy to down it FAST!
If it works, then it works, who knows, we shall see.
-Legacy
Nelson Montana said:
This product does get bashed on here quite a bit, but this is a steroid board and most guys use the real deal. There are some of us who do not have access to "real gear", and something like this is our only option. I have not read any negatives on Havoc and I plan on starting a cycle in a few weeks. I am going to run derma for 8 weeks with Havoc thrown in the last four at 30mgs a day. I am using Liv52 throughout and Sustain, POST CYCLE, and UNLEASHED for PCT.
Edit to add.... Any PM's of sources will be forwarded to mods.
DJLegacy2k1
New member
HERES A WRITE UP FROM AN RPN REP:
_________________________________________________
HAVOC Facts And Dosing Protocol
Maximum Strength/Mass Gains With Limited Side Effects
-Dosing range: 30-50mg/day for 4 weeks
-Dose Schedule Recommendations: You should always have your dosing split evenly throughout the day to help maintain maximum blood level concentration of the compound. (I.E.)When 40mg/day is used, i recommend 20mg approx. 30-40 minutes pre-workout. Individual workout times will be a different time of day for each user. Split the remaining two doses evenly over the rest of the day around your pre-workout dose. Try to keep your dosing close to 6 hours a part if possible.
The majority of user feedback indicates that 40mg/day is the best median dose for inducing maximum strength/size benefits while noting limited side effects. This does not include everyone however. Some users may have good/similar results with slightly higher or lower dosing. Every individuals results may vary. This is based on the majority of user feedback.
Sample Havoc Cycles: Please note, these are JUST EXAMPLES to give you an overall idea on how to set it up. You will have to adjust the pattern to meet your own schedule and needs.
Havoc(20mg/day):
1st Dose(10mg): 8-10am
2nd Dose(10mg): 4-6pm
Havoc(30mg/day):
1st Dose(10mg): 8-10am OR 1st Dose(20mg): 8-10am(Pre-Workout Dose)
2nd Dose(10mg): 2-3pm 2nd Dose(10mg): 4-6pm
3rd Dose(10mg): 6-8pm
Havoc(40mg/day):
1st Dose(20mg): 8-10am(Pre-Workout Dose)
2nd Dose(10mg): 2-3pm
3rd Dose(10mg): 6-8pm
Havoc(50mg/day):
1st Dose(20mg): 8-10am(Pre-Workout Dose)
2nd Dose(20mg): 2-3pm
3rd Dose(10mg): 6-8pm
Supplements To Utilize While Taking Havoc:
-Taurine:Taurine is an amino sulfonic acid that is found in high levels in the skeletal and heart muscles of humans, as well as in white blood cells, and the central nervous system. Taurine aids the movement of potassium, sodium, calcium, and magnesium in and out of cells and thus helps generate nerve impulses.(3-5)grams/daily can be taken to help limit excessive muscle pumps/cramping.
-Gut Health: The probiotic contained within(Lactobacillus Casei Ke-99) can assist with enhanced nutrient absorbtion within the digestive tract. This in turn can equal out to better overall gains. Gut Health also notes immune boosting properties. Please see the Gut Health Sticky for much more info.
-NOxidant: NOxidant is a potent blend of antioxidants specifically designed to counteract reactive nitrogen species - harmful free radicals produced from nitric oxide. NOxidant is best used in conjunction with nitric oxide enhancing supplements such as arginine and citrulline malate. Taken post-workout, NOxidant can protect the body from reactive nitrogen species to ensure an optimal anabolic environment and maximize your results.
-DHEA
Dehydroepiandrosterone)DHEA is the precursor of androstenedione, which can undergo further conversion to produce the androgen testosterone and the estrogens estrone and estradiol. This can assist in maintaining libido while taking havoc. Due to havoc's properties of estrogen suppression, this can lead to suppressed libido in some users. DHEA at 100-200mg/day has shown in some user feedback to help limit this adverse effect and maintain adequate libido.
-Branched Chain Amino AcidsLeucine,Isoleucine,Valine) They make up about 1/3 of skeletal muscle in the human body. They play are very important role in protein synthesis and recovery. BCAA's assist in maintaining muscle mass as well as contributing to new growth through the muscle hypertrophy process.
-Liver(Hepatic)/Blood Pressure/Prostate/Cholesterol SupportNAC,Milk Thistle,Celery Seed Extract,Hawthorne Berry,Saw Palmetto,Red Yeast Rice) These supplements help to minimize/limit possible adverse side effects in these areas. It's suggested to take your liver support supps. at least 2-3 hours a part from the Havoc itself. This helps ensure maximum effects from both substances.
-Joint/Ligament SupportCissus Quadrangularis)Many users utilize cissus while taking havoc to support/alleviate potential joint issues.
-DCP:This RPN product can be a welcome addition to any Havoc cycle for many reasons. DCP contains PLCAR(Propionyl-L-Carnitine) which can assist in androgen receptor proliferation increasing the amount of actual receptors present on muscles cells thereby enhancing new muscle growth opportunity. DCP also contains TTA(Tetradecylthioacetic Acid)and Salvia Miltiorrhiza Extract. These substances are responsible for liberating fatty acids from adipocytes(Fat Cells) into the bloodstream to be used as fuel. The PLCAR is also responsible in assisting transport of fatty acids into the mitochondria(powerhouse of the cell)to be used as energy. So in essence, DCP can assist you in your havoc cycle by assisting with more lean type gains, enhanced overall energy/endurance, and assist in increased androgen receptor proliferation leading to better gains overall. For the full DCP write-up, please see the Sticky thread.
Supplements To Utilize During A Havoc PCT:
-CreatineMonohydrate,Ethyl Ester,Gluconate) Creatine assists with maintaning strength and mass gains during pct. This is an important supplement that should absolutely be utilized during pct. Personal creatine of choice is recommended.
-Anti-Cortisol: These supplements assist in helping to maintain gains while during pct. Cortisol suppression helps maintain size gains by limiting a catabolic state where muscle is broken down and used for energy.
-SERM(Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator)Tamoxifen,Raloxifene,Clomiphene,Toremifene) A serm assists in blocking the effects of elevated estrogen while the body balances out its own endogenous hormones restoring the HPTA.
-Natural Testosterone Booster: During your pct, your natural testosterone levels are suppressed(some may be moreso than others.) These supplements help to kickstart your natural testosterone production and ultimately assist in restoring your HPTA.
-Branched Chain Amino AcidsLeucine,Isoleucine,Valine) They make up about 1/3 of skeletal muscle in the human body. They play are very important role in protein synthesis as well as assisting in maintaining aquired muscle mass during pct.
-Liver(Hepatic)/Blood Pressure/Prostate/Cholesterol Support: (NAC,Milk Thistle,Celery Seed Extract,Hawthorne Berry,Saw Palmetto,Red Yeast Rice) These supplements help to minimize/limit possible adverse side effects in these areas.
-NOxidant: NOxidant is a potent blend of antioxidants specifically designed to counteract reactive nitrogen species - harmful free radicals produced from nitric oxide. NOxidant is best used in conjunction with nitric oxide enhancing supplements such as arginine and citrulline malate. Taken post-workout, NOxidant can protect the body from reactive nitrogen species to ensure an optimal anabolic environment and maximize your results.
-Gut Health: The probiotic contained within(Lactobacillus Casei Ke-99) can assist with enhanced nutrient absorbtion within the digestive tract. This in turn can equal out to better overall gains. Gut Health also notes immune boosting properties. Please see the Gut Health Sticky for much more info.
Some Random Havoc Q&A:
-Do i have to take Havoc with or without food?
Havoc is a methylated compound. Its absorbtion will not be significantly effected either way. It's personal choice to take with or witout food.
-Sometimes when i take Havoc late in the day i can't sleep at night.
Havoc has been reported in some users to cause insomnia. If that is the case, don't take havoc within 4 hours of bedtime.
-Do i need to use a SERM in my Havoc PCT?
YES, you NEED to use a serm, period!!
-What type of results can i expect from Havoc?
This is all dependent upon what your overall goals are. Havoc can be used to deliver impressive strength and lean mass gains if your diet and training are on point. An 8-10 pound gain in size is not an uncommon feedback comment by many users.
-Can i stack other compounds with Havoc?
Yes, you can stack certain compounds with havoc. Havoc would stack BEST with a NON-methyl compound that is somewhat (wet) in nature. As long as the 2nd compound is of a NON-methyl nature, you can stack it with havoc. The (dry) effects of havoc stacked with a NON-methyl(wet)compound would work well together.
-What type of diet should i use with Havoc?
Again this is very dependent upon your overall goals. Havoc respondes well to a bulking diet/training yielding some very impressive strength and size gains. Havoc can also be used to maintain size and strength while cutting. The key is your diet HAS to be in check and formulated for this. Like anything in life, you will make it what it is.
-Can i take Tylenol, Motrin, or Naprosyn while on Havoc for pain?
In short, i would avoid tylenol at all costs. Acetaminophen (tylenol) is significantly metabolized hepatically(by the liver.) This WILL add major stress to the liver on top of the havoc compound. I DO NOT advise to its use while taking havoc.
Motrin and naprosen are NSAIDS(Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs.) They control pain by the inhibition of prostaglandin synthesis which contributes to the mechanism of our pain response. Nsaid use is also believed in theory to inhibit protein synthesis leading to hindered overall muscle gains. Nsaids are also metabolized hepatically(by the liver.) While their overall hepatic(liver)stress may not be AS significant as tylenol, it still adds a significant amount. Tylenol and Nsaids are STRONGLY advised to avoid while taking havoc.
-How long should a cycle of Havoc be?
Havoc should be taken no longer than 4 weeks for a straight cycle. During that time frame you will receive maximum benefits and results from the compound. Some people may choose to pulse cycle havoc. A pulse cycle can be run up to 6 weeks. Pulse cycle guidelines for havoc will be placed in this write-up shortly.
Much more to be added guys, this is a work in progress.
_______________________________________________
SERM Highly ADVISED!...other than that, that should lay out some basics for you guys thinking about Havoc.
-Legacy
_________________________________________________
HAVOC Facts And Dosing Protocol
Maximum Strength/Mass Gains With Limited Side Effects
-Dosing range: 30-50mg/day for 4 weeks
-Dose Schedule Recommendations: You should always have your dosing split evenly throughout the day to help maintain maximum blood level concentration of the compound. (I.E.)When 40mg/day is used, i recommend 20mg approx. 30-40 minutes pre-workout. Individual workout times will be a different time of day for each user. Split the remaining two doses evenly over the rest of the day around your pre-workout dose. Try to keep your dosing close to 6 hours a part if possible.
The majority of user feedback indicates that 40mg/day is the best median dose for inducing maximum strength/size benefits while noting limited side effects. This does not include everyone however. Some users may have good/similar results with slightly higher or lower dosing. Every individuals results may vary. This is based on the majority of user feedback.
Sample Havoc Cycles: Please note, these are JUST EXAMPLES to give you an overall idea on how to set it up. You will have to adjust the pattern to meet your own schedule and needs.
Havoc(20mg/day):
1st Dose(10mg): 8-10am
2nd Dose(10mg): 4-6pm
Havoc(30mg/day):
1st Dose(10mg): 8-10am OR 1st Dose(20mg): 8-10am(Pre-Workout Dose)
2nd Dose(10mg): 2-3pm 2nd Dose(10mg): 4-6pm
3rd Dose(10mg): 6-8pm
Havoc(40mg/day):
1st Dose(20mg): 8-10am(Pre-Workout Dose)
2nd Dose(10mg): 2-3pm
3rd Dose(10mg): 6-8pm
Havoc(50mg/day):
1st Dose(20mg): 8-10am(Pre-Workout Dose)
2nd Dose(20mg): 2-3pm
3rd Dose(10mg): 6-8pm
Supplements To Utilize While Taking Havoc:
-Taurine:Taurine is an amino sulfonic acid that is found in high levels in the skeletal and heart muscles of humans, as well as in white blood cells, and the central nervous system. Taurine aids the movement of potassium, sodium, calcium, and magnesium in and out of cells and thus helps generate nerve impulses.(3-5)grams/daily can be taken to help limit excessive muscle pumps/cramping.
-Gut Health: The probiotic contained within(Lactobacillus Casei Ke-99) can assist with enhanced nutrient absorbtion within the digestive tract. This in turn can equal out to better overall gains. Gut Health also notes immune boosting properties. Please see the Gut Health Sticky for much more info.
-NOxidant: NOxidant is a potent blend of antioxidants specifically designed to counteract reactive nitrogen species - harmful free radicals produced from nitric oxide. NOxidant is best used in conjunction with nitric oxide enhancing supplements such as arginine and citrulline malate. Taken post-workout, NOxidant can protect the body from reactive nitrogen species to ensure an optimal anabolic environment and maximize your results.
-DHEA
Dehydroepiandrosterone)DHEA is the precursor of androstenedione, which can undergo further conversion to produce the androgen testosterone and the estrogens estrone and estradiol. This can assist in maintaining libido while taking havoc. Due to havoc's properties of estrogen suppression, this can lead to suppressed libido in some users. DHEA at 100-200mg/day has shown in some user feedback to help limit this adverse effect and maintain adequate libido.-Branched Chain Amino Acids
Leucine,Isoleucine,Valine) They make up about 1/3 of skeletal muscle in the human body. They play are very important role in protein synthesis and recovery. BCAA's assist in maintaining muscle mass as well as contributing to new growth through the muscle hypertrophy process. -Liver(Hepatic)/Blood Pressure/Prostate/Cholesterol Support
NAC,Milk Thistle,Celery Seed Extract,Hawthorne Berry,Saw Palmetto,Red Yeast Rice) These supplements help to minimize/limit possible adverse side effects in these areas. It's suggested to take your liver support supps. at least 2-3 hours a part from the Havoc itself. This helps ensure maximum effects from both substances.-Joint/Ligament Support
Cissus Quadrangularis)Many users utilize cissus while taking havoc to support/alleviate potential joint issues.-DCP:This RPN product can be a welcome addition to any Havoc cycle for many reasons. DCP contains PLCAR(Propionyl-L-Carnitine) which can assist in androgen receptor proliferation increasing the amount of actual receptors present on muscles cells thereby enhancing new muscle growth opportunity. DCP also contains TTA(Tetradecylthioacetic Acid)and Salvia Miltiorrhiza Extract. These substances are responsible for liberating fatty acids from adipocytes(Fat Cells) into the bloodstream to be used as fuel. The PLCAR is also responsible in assisting transport of fatty acids into the mitochondria(powerhouse of the cell)to be used as energy. So in essence, DCP can assist you in your havoc cycle by assisting with more lean type gains, enhanced overall energy/endurance, and assist in increased androgen receptor proliferation leading to better gains overall. For the full DCP write-up, please see the Sticky thread.
Supplements To Utilize During A Havoc PCT:
-Creatine
Monohydrate,Ethyl Ester,Gluconate) Creatine assists with maintaning strength and mass gains during pct. This is an important supplement that should absolutely be utilized during pct. Personal creatine of choice is recommended.-Anti-Cortisol: These supplements assist in helping to maintain gains while during pct. Cortisol suppression helps maintain size gains by limiting a catabolic state where muscle is broken down and used for energy.
-SERM(Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator)
Tamoxifen,Raloxifene,Clomiphene,Toremifene) A serm assists in blocking the effects of elevated estrogen while the body balances out its own endogenous hormones restoring the HPTA.-Natural Testosterone Booster: During your pct, your natural testosterone levels are suppressed(some may be moreso than others.) These supplements help to kickstart your natural testosterone production and ultimately assist in restoring your HPTA.
-Branched Chain Amino Acids
Leucine,Isoleucine,Valine) They make up about 1/3 of skeletal muscle in the human body. They play are very important role in protein synthesis as well as assisting in maintaining aquired muscle mass during pct.-Liver(Hepatic)/Blood Pressure/Prostate/Cholesterol Support: (NAC,Milk Thistle,Celery Seed Extract,Hawthorne Berry,Saw Palmetto,Red Yeast Rice) These supplements help to minimize/limit possible adverse side effects in these areas.
-NOxidant: NOxidant is a potent blend of antioxidants specifically designed to counteract reactive nitrogen species - harmful free radicals produced from nitric oxide. NOxidant is best used in conjunction with nitric oxide enhancing supplements such as arginine and citrulline malate. Taken post-workout, NOxidant can protect the body from reactive nitrogen species to ensure an optimal anabolic environment and maximize your results.
-Gut Health: The probiotic contained within(Lactobacillus Casei Ke-99) can assist with enhanced nutrient absorbtion within the digestive tract. This in turn can equal out to better overall gains. Gut Health also notes immune boosting properties. Please see the Gut Health Sticky for much more info.
Some Random Havoc Q&A:
-Do i have to take Havoc with or without food?
Havoc is a methylated compound. Its absorbtion will not be significantly effected either way. It's personal choice to take with or witout food.
-Sometimes when i take Havoc late in the day i can't sleep at night.
Havoc has been reported in some users to cause insomnia. If that is the case, don't take havoc within 4 hours of bedtime.
-Do i need to use a SERM in my Havoc PCT?
YES, you NEED to use a serm, period!!
-What type of results can i expect from Havoc?
This is all dependent upon what your overall goals are. Havoc can be used to deliver impressive strength and lean mass gains if your diet and training are on point. An 8-10 pound gain in size is not an uncommon feedback comment by many users.
-Can i stack other compounds with Havoc?
Yes, you can stack certain compounds with havoc. Havoc would stack BEST with a NON-methyl compound that is somewhat (wet) in nature. As long as the 2nd compound is of a NON-methyl nature, you can stack it with havoc. The (dry) effects of havoc stacked with a NON-methyl(wet)compound would work well together.
-What type of diet should i use with Havoc?
Again this is very dependent upon your overall goals. Havoc respondes well to a bulking diet/training yielding some very impressive strength and size gains. Havoc can also be used to maintain size and strength while cutting. The key is your diet HAS to be in check and formulated for this. Like anything in life, you will make it what it is.
-Can i take Tylenol, Motrin, or Naprosyn while on Havoc for pain?
In short, i would avoid tylenol at all costs. Acetaminophen (tylenol) is significantly metabolized hepatically(by the liver.) This WILL add major stress to the liver on top of the havoc compound. I DO NOT advise to its use while taking havoc.
Motrin and naprosen are NSAIDS(Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs.) They control pain by the inhibition of prostaglandin synthesis which contributes to the mechanism of our pain response. Nsaid use is also believed in theory to inhibit protein synthesis leading to hindered overall muscle gains. Nsaids are also metabolized hepatically(by the liver.) While their overall hepatic(liver)stress may not be AS significant as tylenol, it still adds a significant amount. Tylenol and Nsaids are STRONGLY advised to avoid while taking havoc.
-How long should a cycle of Havoc be?
Havoc should be taken no longer than 4 weeks for a straight cycle. During that time frame you will receive maximum benefits and results from the compound. Some people may choose to pulse cycle havoc. A pulse cycle can be run up to 6 weeks. Pulse cycle guidelines for havoc will be placed in this write-up shortly.
Much more to be added guys, this is a work in progress.
_______________________________________________
SERM Highly ADVISED!...other than that, that should lay out some basics for you guys thinking about Havoc.
-Legacy
rsnoble-im-back
Banned
Apparently things have advanced since Joe Weider weight gain chewables. LOL.
DJLegacy2k1
New member
10 is most likely overdoing it, unless you were running 50mg ed of havoc...Im going to be using Nolva and Sustain as my PCT.
-Legacy
-Legacy
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