Confucianism shows that 'God' is ultimately obsolete

[plornive]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Confucianism shows that 'God' is ultimately obsolete

Yeah, I meant "doesn't."

That's fine. I don't believe that you can't be happy without God either, but this does not render God "unnecessary." You're not convincing me of anything.

Well, I have shown that it is possible for a society to be happy and live in peace, harmony and order without the idea of 'God'. I am not trying to prove that 'God' doesn't exist. That is way outside of the scope of this post.

What exactly do you think the idea of 'God' is necessary for?

EDIT: If you are saying that 'God' is necessary because you believe that he created us and basically defines our existence (or something like that), then we can agree to disagree. I am not even trying to say you are wrong about that --- it is outside of the scope of this post.

 

[Doktor Bollix]

So, does Confucianism have a concept and articulation of the Divine or not? Plornive old chap. Yes or No, no other answer is acceptable.

 

[wyst]

btw wyst,

How have you been? I haven't seen you around in a while. You still juicing and lifting or just lifting?

Just lifting...still haven't crossed over to the dark side...yet. I learn so much on this damn board that I'm still making good enough gains that I can't quite justify it yet. I really haven't been lifting all that long. If you recall, when I came here I was still running a lot and only lifting a little, and that was only a year ago this past May. Still building up my base I guess. How are you and the lady? Has she been "on' again lately? I remember that first time, lol.



xoxo

Wyst

 

[plornive]

So, does Confucianism have a concept and articulation of the Divine or not? Plornive old chap. Yes or No, no other answer is acceptable.

No.

 

[bigguns7]

I guess it's just your liberal use of the word "unnecessary." You should say that belief in God is unnecessary to achieve harmony.

Peace, harmony, law, and order can be achieved without food. Does this mean that food is "unnecessary?" No. It is just unnecessary in the pursuit of harmony and order.

 

[plornive]

Doktor Bollix,
Please give me an example of what you deem a concept or articulation of the divine in Confucianism. That would give me an idea of where you are coming from. Right now, it seems to me like you are just stabbing in the dark.

 

[plornive]

I guess it's just your liberal use of the word "unnecessary." You should say that belief in God is unnecessary to achieve harmony.

Peace, harmony, law, and order can be achieved without food. Does this mean that food is "unnecessary?" No. It is just unnecessary in the pursuit of harmony and order.

I didn't know my words were stamped with "liberal" subtext.

Peace, harmony, law and order will cease to exist without food since everyone will die.

You didn't answer my question or deal with my points. Again... What exactly do you think the idea of 'God' is necessary for?

 

[curling]

Wyst,

She is fine kinda of little more lazy lately can't get her to gym except maybe once a week. She hasn't been on anything except some var about 6 months ago. She is thinking about getting back on but I told her it would be waste unless she hits the gym more. IYKWIM

She is putting out more now I think she has hit her peak. And dang it I am coming off a cycle on clomid.

 

[Doktor Bollix]

Heaven means to be one with God. -- Confucius

What did Confucius mean by this?

Heaven features rather prominently in confucianism for example:

"Confucius occasionally mentions the "Mandate of Heaven." He appears to interpret this to mean the natural law or moral order within things. Men must seek to live within this order. One must be careful not to violate the will of heaven. Confucius wrote, "He who put himself in the wrong with Heaven has no means of expiation left." (Analects 3:13)"

Why is that?

I totally agree that in the Confucian system, a divine being does not have a big role; his philosophy is man-centered and relies on virtue and work. If there is a god he is incomprehensible and doesn't give a fuck. Man is perfectible and can attain to attain character through education, work, and reflection. The goal of life was to live a morall life. After his death though, Confucianism evolved, combining with Chinese traditional religions and Buddhism to add a spiritual component. IMO opinion the one big difference between Christianity and Confuvianism is that Confucianism says that man is inherently good and that the divine plan can be deceiphered by looking within. Christianity says that man is inherently bad, and we need to be "saved".

You need to look up the definition of anthromorphism too. Ancestor worship is central to chinese culture, deal with it.

 

[plornive]

Heaven means to be one with God. -- Confucius

What did Confucius mean by this?

Heaven features rather prominently in confucianism for example:

"Confucius occasionally mentions the "Mandate of Heaven." He appears to interpret this to mean the natural law or moral order within things. Men must seek to live within this order. One must be careful not to violate the will of heaven. Confucius wrote, "He who put himself in the wrong with Heaven has no means of expiation left." (Analects 3:13)"

Why is that?

I totally agree that in the Confucian system, a divine being does not have a big role; his philosophy is man-centered and relies on virtue and work. If there is a god he is incomprehensible and doesn't give a fuck. Man is perfectible and can attain to attain character through education, work, and reflection. The goal of life was to live a morall life. After his death though, Confucianism evolved, combining with Chinese traditional religions and Buddhism to add a spiritual component. IMO opinion the one big difference between Christianity and Confuvianism is that Confucianism says that man is inherently good and that the divine plan can be deceiphered by looking within. Christianity says that man is inherently bad, and we need to be "saved".

You need to look up the definition of anthromorphism too. Ancestor worship is central to chinese culture, deal with it.

Heaven represents the unknown and fundamental forces of the universe to Confucianists. The emperor would say he had the "Mandate of Heaven" because the forces and principles of the universe ultimately chose him by making him emperor. Basically, any emperor has the mandate of heaven because he is the emperor.

There is no concept of heaven, god or the supernatural in Confucianism that remotely compare to the Abrahamic concepts. These words are used for lack of accurate English words.

Yeah, my definition of anthropomorphic is wrong... I'm trying to think of a better word...

And ancestor worship, as I said before, does not contradict atheism.